kpilling

Sorry Guys - one more regarding Eurostar.

You can tell we are getting down to the wire - my questions are getting really specific.

Do I need to worry about pick pockets at the Waterloo and or on the Eurostar. I know once we get off the train in Paris - watch out.

This is our new itinary if anyone remembers the old one, this one is simpler.

Landing London - 3 days in London, then 4 days North Wales, 1 night in Birmingham with relatives and 5 nights in Paris and flying home from Paris.

I bought 4 days flexi-pass that offers a free day from BETS. Our hotel in Paris is in the 7th. Still working on London (will probably do Priceline) and are considering a cottage rental in Wales near Snowdonia.

I really appreciate all your help it has been invaluable. I am sure there will be a few more questions before late September - but again THANK YOU ALL.

Karen

sandi_travelnut

Use common sense anywhere you are! It's not like there's pickpockets waiting for you to exit the train in Paris but none at Waterloo. Just be aware of your surroundings, don't flash your cash and keep valuables in an inside coat pocket or money belt.

BTilke

FYI, if you are coming to Waterloo via Tube, you cannot take the exit up to the departure area for Eurostar (Tube exit signs clearly tell you where to go) without showing security either your Eurostar ticket or your reservation confirmation if you are picking up your tickets at Eurostar check in on the day of departure (last week, I almost decided to simply write down my reservation confirmation number instead of taking the email prinout; glad I didn't).
I believe you can't get into the Eurostar departure area at all now without having ticket or formal confirmation in hand. (The departure zone is NOT the same as the Eurostar waiting area after you go through checkin, security and passport control. It's the area where you pick up tickets and wait in line to check in).

PalQ

I always have my valuables and passport in my moneybelt from the time i get off the plane till i return - even in UK where pickpocketing seems rarely to be reported. I just get used to it and never think about pickpockets, though in places like Paris metro and especially Gare du Nord i'm always on guard.
Never heard of any problems on Eurostar with bag theft or pickpockets but don't leave valuables in bags stashed at ends of cars.

FainaAgain

Can anybody post a URL of the map of Europe with pickpockets areas clearly indicated?

suze

Rather than trying to second-guess each situation, I suggest you simply get yourself organized and "pickpocket proof" from the start and for the duration of your trip.

Whether you choose to use a money belt, neck pouch, close-fitting pocketbook, whatever... just figure out a system that keeps your valuable ON your person and secure at all times you're out in public.

As above, there are not hordes of pickpockets just waiting to pounce on you when you get off the train in Paris for goodness sake.

Eleni

Good one Faina!

PalQ

FainaAgain - perhaps a bit of sarcasm in your post but here's my top pickpocket venues:
1-Madrid
2-Barcelona (both these cities have strongarm street thefts as well, a relative of mine was wrestled to the ground in Madrid by a thief who wanted her daypack - she wanted to get it off so he could have it but couldn't the struggle lasted for about a minute - it was 7am on a Sunday morning and nearby shopkeepers in front of Atocha station just looked on.
3-Rome
4-Florence
5-Prague
6-Amsterdam
7-Nice
Least Likely
Germany, Switzerland, Scandinavia, Austria, UK, Ireland

FainaAgain

Thank you, Pal, now I can safely join BillyAndBettyJones on their next trip to Scandic Navia. Even if they will require to examine my Trenitalia.

PalQ

FainaRedux:
Is this Germany to the topic?

Eleni

PalQ, guess it's my day to play devil's advocate with you. I'm curious about the basis for your opinions. Anecdotal evidence, no matter how compelling, doesn't show anything about the prevalence of pickpocketing in any given location.

My observation is that pickpockets tend to target tourists, whether the tourists are in New York, London, or elsewhere because too often tourists are distracted by being in a new place or looking at the sites and are, therefore, easy marks. Tourists are also targeted because they tend to be carrying valuables such as cameras or money. So the lesson is, pay attention to your surroundings wherever you are and, in a city, keep your wits about you whether the locals speak English or some other language.

everittp

Re; securing money

I hated the feeling of the money belt around my waist and even more, the neck pouch. Traveling in hot weather didn't leave a lot of possible secure pockets. I solved the problem by cutting off the cords, then sewing velcro strips on the top, right side of the neck pouch (bought from Rick Steves store on line) and strips of velcro on the inside waist band of the pants I packed for Paris. I was careful to sew the soft velcro on the pants so that it doesn't itch or scratch when I don't have the pouch attached. This worked so beautifully that all who saw it were envious.
All I had to do to access my money, Carte L'orange , museum pass or passport was to flip the pouch up to the outside. The zippers keep everything secure, and best of all, even I didn't know I was wearing it.

I could transfer the pouch from one pair of pants to another without emptying it.

This is an easy sewing project. Email me if you want more instructions.

PalQ

eleni: I led bike trips for ten years in Europe thru Paris and Amsterdam - one trip over half were pickpocketed on Paris metro even after warnings. Many in Amsterdam. though recently retired, for years i advised 1000s of people on European travel by phone - i noted their pickpocketing reports and i've read things as well. I've talked to more than a few folks who were mugged in Barcelona and Madrid for example - some right in Madrid's Plaza Mayor - i know these are dicey towns for rich-looking tourists. For 20 years i wrote, researched and edited a European travel magazine, again getting many reports from readers. Studying and writing about European travel has occupied my adult life. I don't think i'm basing it on nothing. And i have spent weeks in many of these towns and have seen and heard travelers talk - no never rely on secondhand reports - i don't think Prague for example is as bad as i've heard - about taxis robbing you, etc. Or gassing on trains, though it has happened. I strongly believe these cities you have to be on your guard in - wear a moneybelt under your clothes and you'll be OK. And be leary of anyone coming up to you - offering to help you with luggage on Italian trains, etc. Offering to help you buy metro tickets at machines in Paris' Gare du Nord - asking for instructions in Rome or Florence - or accidently spilling something on you and then their accomplice pickpockets you whilst they apologetically clean it up.
That said, I understand your skeptism and would normally be aloof to give my credentials for fear of 'blowing ones own horn'. for all you know this is all a bunch of bs - i know but i stand by my reasons for listing these - and i'm sure most veteran travelers would list the same.

kpilling

Guys,

I was not concerned about money, camera etc... I am aware of wearing a money belt (I read Rick Steves too). My bigger concern was that a pickpocket might try to run off with a carry on piece of luggage while traversing the station in Paris. This is my first trip to Europe and I have probably read way too much!!!

Karen

Eleni

PalQ,sounds like you have led a very interesting life, and certainly have a basis for your opinions.

That being said, I still think people need to be alert wherever they are. If you are a tourist in London and think there aren't pickpockets here (or baggage stealers) you are making a mistake.

PalQ

Eleni i agree 100% with you - perhaps the danger of a list like i gave says you totally safe in London - not true though i've never personally seen the things i've seen in Paris at Gare du Nord - one night while waiting for a night train i saw cops arrest packs of young men - not French of course - in the station. But yes that's why i always use my moneybelt from the time off the plane to back on - just becomes a part of me. Least likely list doesn't mean unlikely - i should have clarified that - just trying to help someone not suffer the agony of losing things - what a bummer - feel violated, etc. In 36 years of European travel i've never been victimized because i'm lucky and alert. I have had zippers on my day packs opened in the metro - a guy in Amsterdam thrust his hands into my jacket pocket, etc., but never, knock on wood, been victimized - always, everywhere use your moneybelt - it's not always pickpockets - sometimes you just forget a bag somewhere with your stuff in it. One of my clients landed in Copenhgaen with her 80 year old mom and left the bags with her while she changed money - she came back the back with the railpasses in it was gone! And Copenhagen would have been on my lists of safe cities. Nuff said, over and out.

lyb

Kpilling,

Unless you are sitting in your own home, you need to worry about pickpockets EVERYWHERE!!! Fact of life that there are people who believe that it is okay to take what belongs to others...

Having said that, use the same caution you would in any location where there are a lot of people...

suze

Karen- If you travel with only one suitcase and keep your hands on it, I don't think this would be a big magnet for pickpockets. While I've heard "urban legend" about someone swiping a bag when the doors are just closing to the Metro, for example, I think most often it is easy cash that pickpockets target. They really don't want your clothes -LOL.

ben_haines_london

Pickpockets of Europe

These are found in famous tourist areas of London (Westminster, St Paul’s, the Tower, by the British Museum, Trafalgar Square), Madrid (near the great gallery), Paris (Louvre, Ile de France), Milan, Venice (St Marks Square), Rome, Vienna (near the Burg and St Stephen’s), Berlin (Brandenburg Gate and Unter den Linden), Krakow (within the walls), Prague (the castle area and New Town square), and Budapest (the castle). In general, great castles, seats of government, squares, cathedrals, and open air markets.

If people have trouble they tell the consul. So consuls give good advice, country by country. You can read it
from Australia on http://www.dfat.gov.au/consular/advice
from Britain on http://193.114.50.10/travel and on http://www.fco.gov.uk/travel/countryadvice.asp
from Canada on http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/menu-e.asp, under "Research your trip"
from France on http://www.dfae.diplomatie.fr/voyage...s/alphabet.asp
from the USA on http://travel.state.gov/travel/warnings.html under consular information sheets
Some experienced American travellers find the American site over-cautious. It is therefor useful to check all five sites.
You will read that consuls dislike bumbags and ask you to use the hotel manager’s safe for everything except a credit card and a little money.

Especially in central Europe, trains may have travelling thieves, so by night you need sleepers, which have doors you can lock. In Prague Hlavni and Krakow Glowna stations thieves work in gangs of three, so you should pass through those stations with only your rail ticket and a little money. You should pull out other things, such as passports, only when you are safely in your compartment.

Ben Haines
[email protected]

PalQ

The US State Dept also issues warnings on its website - recently there was one about RER trains from CDG to Gare du Nord, about bag snatchers.
The one thing we don't want to do is worry people - know the problem and the problem is largely solved!