PixieGal

Hello Folks! I posted here for the first time months back reference my June trip to Europe. The outpouring of information and advice simply blew my mind! Thanks again.

We bought our round-trip flights from the US to Nuremberg, Germany (my son is stationed in Illescheim) and are now in the process of mapping out our course. One thing I learned from my first post is to spend more time in one place instead of trying to move around too much. I've taken that to heart, but looking at the beginning of our trip, it looks like we'll be adding a couple of stops (so far), so I'd like some input again.

Illescheim is not too far from Munich, and Munich is not too far from Innsbruck, and there's nothing in particular we're looking to see in those places, aside from scenery and experience. From Innsbruck, we'll go to Vienna for 2-3 nights and on to Krakow for 2 nights (Auschwitz-birkenau).

So here's my question... Is it feasible to spend a single night in both Munich and Innsbruck, or should we skip Munich and spend 2 nights in Innsbruck? This is a 3+ week trip that will, hopefully, encompass Netherlands, England, and Scotland stays, before heading back to Nuremberg. I've been severely warned not to spread myself too thin trying to see too many places in Europe, but now that I'm actually looking at a map and travel times, it seems possible to have some shorter stays.

Lastly, we're planning on most, if not all, public transportation - planes, trains, & busses.

Thoughts?

PalenQ

1 night stands mean relocating hotels and transport getting there means you really have about half a day - enough to see the centers of those cities but little else. Anyway trains are fantastic in both countries - Innsbruck Vienna book your own discounted tickets online at Mega site of Bible Information or Willkommen - two competing rail systems using same tracks and stations - Westbahn always cheap even at last minute.

Vienna to Krakow best fly or take possible overnight train if available. Auschwitz-Birkenau can be reached from Krakow by train or bus if you don't want to do a group tour from Krakow.

kitbag

I'm frequently a road warrior and switching hotels is nothing to me (I can live out of a suitcase, and I spend for taxis). However, I don't do one-night stands unless there is at least ONE attraction I am really very excited to have the chance to see and which can be successfully visited in a very limited amount of time no matter the weather (i.e., the Asam church in Munich, but not the public gardens or the national museum of Bavarian treasures). Another reason I might stop for just one night is to break up a long day of transit -- but for that I would not pick a city as large and busy as Munich if I could avoid it.

PalenQ

And, there is a direct overnight train Vienna-Krakow -leaving at 22:10 and getting in to Krakow about 6:30 am. Day trains all day traveling and changes involved.

kja

I, personally, have no objection to a one-night stay if it suits my purpose, for example, if it allows me to see something I really want to see without backtracking.

That said … have you no interest in seeing anything in Munich? You are sure that you can see and do what you want in Vienna in 2 or 3 nights (which means only 1 or 2 days) and in Krakow for 2 nights (which would let you see Auschwitz-Birkenau, and basically nothing else of that incredibly delightful city)?

I must admit that I think you are going to spend a LOT of time in transit to see very few of the treasures of the cities through which you will pass. JMO.

PixieGal

Well, originally Poland was not on the list; Vienna either, for that matter. Munich was for sure but mainly to see Dachau, and then Innsbruck. The more I researched, I decided I'd rather do Auschwitz-birkenau than Dachau, so I've started to adjust; however, we're still in the planning stages, so nothing set in stone. Just looking at the map, it seemed Innsbruck to Vienna worked well to head to Krakow from there, so Vienna got added back in (although we were really considering it beforehand too.) I'm trying to NOT add in too many places, but even Prague, which was not on the list, seems to fall right into our line of travel from Krakow to Amsterdam? Ughh... Too many places and things to consider; it's making my head hurt, lol.

Cowboy1968

If I was starting from a somewhat less central point like Illesheim and wanted to see Vienna and Krakow as the main destinations on my list, I'd probably skip both, Munich and Innsbruck. And would spent one night in Salzburg and add one night to Vienna instead.

IMO, Salzburg is prettier than Innsbruck (unfortunately, the rest of the world thinks that, too, so you have more tourists).
And a good place to just stroll around - especially with an overnight stay as the day-tripping tourists won't crowd the old town the later it gets or the sooner you start again exploring next morning.

fourfortravel

So, you have 5-6 nights to play with? I suggest flying from Munich to Krakow and spending all of the time there, given your interests. With Auschwitz requiring the better part of one day, that leaves you with enough time to enjoy Krakow and perhaps add a day trip without feeling like you are rushed.

Or, if you'd also like the scenery in the Salzkammergut, perhaps take 2 nights in Salzburg, then fly from Munich to Krakow for the remaining nights.

PixieGal

PalenQ, is it possible/feasible to sleep on these overnight trains? I don't sleep well in a car, sitting up, so not sure I'd like to arrive in Krakow all glassy-eyed for a full day. In addition, what is the scenery like between the two places? I figure the best way to see as much as possible is to see it while traveling also, lol. That said, saving a night's lodging is attractive. 😁

PixieGal

Thank you! I've researched Salzburg vs Innsbruck now, and the overwhelming majority say Salzburg, hands down. So... I think skipping both Munich and Innsbruck, going straight to Salzburg from Illescheim, makes better sense within our schedule. Probably spend 2 nights in Salzburg, depending on travel time there, and 2-3 in Vienna. Now my topic title doesn't make much sense, haha.

PalenQ

Night train - well you'll have bunk-type beds to sleep in not sitting up - that said there is always a modicum of noise from inside and outside the train but you will have a fairly comfy bed to sleep in if you get a private double. Again for more on night trains check https://www.seat61.com/sleepers.htm; www.bugeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

menachem

A few years ago, I needed to attend a weekend long training session in Berlin once a month for a year. At that time there still was the Amsterdam - Berlin night train and I used that a lot to get to Berlin on saturday morning, so I could have a full working day on friday and still be on time. Never ever was able to sleep on the night train, even though I always booked a bed. Oh the feeling of being lightly slapped in the face with your own passport by the train manager in the morning. I'll never forget it, and I'll never travel by night train again. The notion is romantic, I admit, but the reality is different.

PalenQ

Everyone reacts to night trains differently - I took hundreds in lousy couchettes and rarely could not sleep well but others like menachem more sensitive to noise or motion or whatever.

PixieGal

I hope our experience is more like PalenQ, as I'm almost certain we're taking that Vienna-Krakow night train. I can't seem to find much difference between the couchettes and sleepers, so we'll opt for the cheaper couchettes.

Now looks like we need suggestions for 2 nights in/near Nuremberg. My son will not be at the base during that time, so we aren't locked into that area.

kja

I've taken several overnight trains, and have found many quite pleasant. I actually like the motion and can generally sleep through just about anything. IME experience, the things that make an overnight train less than ideal are sounds -- for example, sounds associated with going through signal crossings or stops en route or country borders -- and there can be a LOT on some trains, including many that are loud enough to disrupt my sleep. And even if I have a good night's rest on an overnight train, I've rarely had a really good night's sleep on an overnight train -- I don't get to, or stay in, deep sleep states with sufficient frequency to really sleep well. I've never taken a night train on the assumption that I'll be well rested the next day, instead counting it as a bonus if I am. I'm not sure your itinerary gives you that latitude.

PalenQ

Couchettes vs Sleepers- couchettes 6 or sometimes 4 unisex often folks in a compartment with 3 bunks on each side of aisle - can be quite crowded and no privacy - IMO pay extra and a lot if necessary for a private double - much much nicer. I travelled always in couchettes because as a single trveler on a low budget I just could not afford single cabins - reconsider decision to do couchettes.

menachem

Listen to PalenQ, OP: Don't book couchettes!!

PixieGal

Just so I understand... The only difference in a couchette and a sleeper is the number of them in one room, correct? So the problem is other people's noises? I understand crowded, but aren't you sleeping? Not doubting you guys, just trying to understand.

Cowboy1968

Couchette car: All "beds" left and right of a center aisle along the full length of the car. Seperation typically by curtains. Similar to a 20+ bed dorm on rails.

Sleeper car: One aisle on the side, but each compartment sleeping 1-6 people (depending on class) seperated by walls.
Usually sleeper cars have different types/classes:
The cheaper class has individual compartments sleeping up to 4 or 6 people - but sharing facilities (restroom, shower) with the rest of car. Like a hostel on rails.
More expensive sleeper class offers more space, Can be as private as only sleeping up to 2 people. Individual toilet and shower en-suite. Like a hotel room on rails.

PalenQ

Why are couchette cars not nearly as nice as a private compartment like a double - yes noise from say the ubiquitous loud snorer - folks getting up and going to loo during night - but also much more cramped - especially 6-person couchettes where folks may have bags all over the central aisle. Private compartments often have a wash basin in them - some hotel trains even offer ensuite WCs and showers (but at an enormous price) - and a main factor with couchettes is that folks IME may go out at night and not lock the door when returning - meaning thieves can gain access to luggage at night on lower levels (I've seen it happen) - I always asked if possible for the upper level topmost bunk as it has extra luggage room in a part that goes over the outside aisle.

Anyway to me getting a private compartment is highly recommended for those reasons plus you can stay up late talking if want without bothering others and feel more comfy eating and drinking, etc/