Melnq8

We’ll be spending three weeks in Switzerland/Germany in December.

In the past we’ve either purchased a Swiss Pass or a Half Fare Card for Switzerland.
I’m in the process of doing the math to determine if a Half Fare Card is indeed the way to go, (the Swiss portion is 15 days).

Our train travel will include:

Zurich Airport to Samedan, Samedan to Scuol, Scuol to Lauterbrunnen, Lauterbrunnen to Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Rothenburg to Munich, and various day trips (mainly just short bus rides to nearby towns, perhaps a few short train rides within the BO such as up to Wengen, Murren and over to Grindelwald, etc).

My understanding is that the Half Fare card also includes a 25% discount on some German trains that cross over from Switzerland (60 km maximum?).

What I haven’t been able to determine:

Does the Half Fare card include discounts on cable cars above St Moritz (Corvatsch, Suvretta-Randolins, Chantarella-Corviglia funicular, St Mortiz Bad-Signal) and mountain excursions from the Lower Engadine such as Motta Naluns), OR is a ski pass necessary to access these routes? Does the Half Fare card apply to buses in the Engadine (I’m assuming it does, but would like to verify).

I realize that most hotels in the Engadine offer a free ski pass to guests after the first few nights stay, but this will not apply to us as we’re staying in apartments. We’re not skiing, but hope to access some winter hiking trails (depending on what’s open, etc).

We’re also interested in taking the Bernina Express from St Mortiz to Tirano. I realize that a reservation is needed on the actual Bernina Express trains, but I’m not clear if it’s needed if you simply take a regular train on the same route?

Lastly, I’m at a loss regarding how to approach the German portion of the trip – is there a pass of some sort that would cover our seven day stay or is point to point the way to go? We’d possibly be visiting nearby towns as well as using the train within Munich.

Any insight appreciated.

swandav2000

Hi Melnq8,

Sorry I can't help with the Swiss portion, as I always get the Half Fare Card.

For your trip from Lauterbrunnen to Rothenburg a. T, your best fares will come with an advance-purchase ticket from the German rail ways. The best discounts start about 90 days early; you're late for these discounts, but it's always worthwhile to try. You can use the German rail site to check the fares still available:

www.bahn.com

and you can play with the fares by indicating that you have the Swiss HFC.

For your trips from Rothenburg a. T. to München and around, you can simply use the Bavarian Ticket. It costs a flat fee for a full day of travel -- 22 Euro for one person and 4 euro for each additional person. Here's the information:

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/pr...a-ticket.shtml

There are restrictions for using the Bavaria Ticket -- you have to travel after 09.00, and you have to use only local trains (not IC or ICE).

Have fun as you plan!

s

Dukey1

I don't believe you can even GET a reservation on a regular train on the Bernina route.

Here's the Rhaetian Railway webpage which might give some info

http://www.rhb.ch/index.php?L=4

Within Munich if you have a rail pass I THINK you can only use it on the S-Bahn routes that are run by the state railways (IOW not on the U-Bahn) but I could be incorrect about that.

greg

They have a map for Swiss pass that gives you an idea for a half-fare card http://www.swissrailways.com/downloa...tskarte_en.pdf.

I presume you have looked at the Lauterbrunen-Rothenburg ob der Tauber segment. It is one long day with multiple train changes. I have traveled in Germany last December, while German trains are usually close to on time, when it snowed hard, which was every few days when I was there, the trains were late enough for me to miss connections. This itinerary can extend your already very long travel day.

Ingo

From Lauterbrunnen to Rothenburg o.d.T. definitely check the saver options on www.bahn.de (fix trains) I found saver fares for a Monday or Tuesday for 59 - 69 Euro per person. It doesn't get cheaper with the Swiss Half Fare Card (yes, you get a 25% discount on the German portion and 50% off on the Swiss portion). Regular fare is 140 Euro, with Half Fare Card it's 112 CHF (about 92 Euro), saver ticket from SBB with Half Fare Card about 60 Euro.

In the Upper Engadine, only P. Corvatsch gives the 50% discount with the Half Fare Card, all the other cable cars do not give any discount. The Half Fare Card covers buses in the Upper Engadine (and elsewhere, different in big cities), too.

In the Lower Engadine, Motta Naluns/Scuol accepts the Half Fare Card: 50% discount, a regular round trip with the gondola is CHF 25.

Check this offer, too: http://www.graubuenden.ch/graubuendenpass.html
With Half Fare Card you get five days free travel on train and bus in Graubünden for CHF 127.

For Bernina route check this offer, too:
http://www.rhb.ch/UNESCO-Welterbe-Pass.2305.0.html?&L=4

No reservations on regional trains anywhere in Switzerland.

For the German portion of your trip use the Ländertickets (Bavaria ticket) or day tickets of respective public transportation networks (around Munich: MVV) as suggested by swandav.

PalenQ

<We’re also interested in taking the Bernina Express from St Mortiz to Tirano. I realize that a reservation is needed on the actual Bernina Express trains, but I’m not clear if it’s needed if you simply take a regular train on the same route?>

No like Dukey says there are no reservations even possible I believe on local trains like these - just hop on - in summer some trains have open-air cars that I loved - just a flatbed floating thru such scintillating scenery.>

For lots of good info on Bernina Express route and Swiss trains in general I always spotlight these superb sources: www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.ricksteves.com; http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html.

If you go way over to Bernina the Swiss Pass may be the best deal and gets you 50% off everything the Half-Fare Card does and before deciding on the Half-Fare Card also look into the Swiss Card which gives the exact same benefits plus a ticket from any airport or border point to any place in Switzerland and then a ticket out to any border point or airport - some have found it a bit cheaper than the Half-Fare card.

Lastly, I’m at a loss regarding how to approach the German portion of the trip – is there a pass of some sort that would cover our seven day stay or is point to point the way to go? We’d possibly be visiting nearby towns as well as using the train within Munich.

WeisserTee

"I traveled in Germany last December, while German trains are usually close to on time, when it snowed hard, which was every few days when I was there, the trains were late enough for me to miss connections. This itinerary can extend your already very long travel day."

This is a good point. A late train can screw up your itinerary. Even trains in Switzerland can be late -- the train I took from Interlaken to Basel was late by about 10 minutes and people did miss their connections.

If I have to make long trips with multiple connections, I usually travel with at least 15 to 20 minutes between legs, especially if I have more than carryon size luggage and the tracks are far apart (example: going from track 3 to track 15 at rush hour with only 5 minutes to change trains). It does mean a longer day overall, but less stress. Better still to break the trip up overnight if possible.

That said, it looks like the one tight connection on the OP's Lauterbrunnen - Rothenburg o.b.T itinerary is between Lauterbrunnen and Interlaken Ost and I wouldn't worry about delays on that route -- it's usually spot on. (assuming the OP opts for the route with "only" four connections)

PalenQ

Last time I was in Germany in January trains were running late many times due to snow or ice - something that is not all that common there so when it happens things can get delayed up and down the line.

PalenQ

With a Half-Fare Card you need to know exactly what you will be doing then it is easy to see whether it (or the Swiss Card which is also a Half-Fare Card) is better than regular tickets - but if you do not know you may end up doing more than you planned -

like in that not so unusual funky weather day in the Alps - then do a day trip to some city like Lucerne or Bern, tolerable and can even be enjoyable in the worst weather when hiking or exploring higher climes is not fun.

With a pass I always end up using it more than I thought - like in the Interlaken area on a nice day on a whim just jumping on a lake boat - lazying around on the top deck with the Jungfrau Massif all lovingly girdled in ice looming high above the lake - a lake boat ride somewhere in Switzerland is a must to me - bring a picnic and just relax.

Melnq8

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll take a look at all the links.

Melnq8

Do you have to travel the same to/from route to use the Swiss Card?

We're arriving Zurich, spending time in both Upper and Lower Engadine, then departing Switzerland via Lauterbrunnen.

The fine print says •The transfer to and from your holiday destination must be via the most direct route* which leads me to believe the Swiss Card wouldn't apply to us.

Melnq8

Best as I can tell, neither the Swiss Pass or the Half Fare Card will cover any ski lifts/gondolas in the Engadine other P. Corvatsch and Motta Naluns/Scuol, which are covered at 50%, so one pass isn't better than the other in that regard.

I've added up all the trips within Switzerland that we're likely to take (bus and train) and unless I've overlooked something, there's only a 7 CHF difference between the Swiss Pass and the Half Fare Card, in the favor of the Swiss Pass.

I'm not sure I figured the Lauterbrunnen to Rothenburg leg out correctly though. I assume that the Swiss Pass only covers train transport to the border (?). So am I correct to price the journey from Lauterbrunnen to Basel (65 CHF)?

I assume that the Swiss Pass would cover the routes offered on the Graubuenden Pass? I'm not sure I understand how this pass would be of benefit over either the Swiss Pass or the Half Fare card, as presumably these routes would already be covered fully by the Swiss Pass or at 50% by the Half Fare Card? Or am I completely off base?

PalenQ

The fine print says •The transfer to and from your holiday destination must be via the most direct route* which leads me to believe the Swiss Card wouldn't apply to us.>

Not sure what you mean - what would be your first and last trips, from where to upon landing and to where to get to the Germany border - well that is Lauterbrunnen to Buchs SG probably - not sure where you are not taking the most direct route?

PalenQ

Do you have to travel the same to/from route to use the Swiss Card?>

OK now i get the Q - no you can use the initial trip to go to one place by the quickest route but then you can take a train to any place for your final route - does not have to be the same one you came.

This has been clarified before here

so first would be Zurich to any place

last would be Lauterbrunnen to Austrian or German border.

Ingo

Did you calculate museum entrance fees also? The Swiss Pass covers them, the Half Fare Card not.

The Graubünden pass is only an option if you decide for the Half Fare Card, because the Swiss Pass covers all these routes, too. The reason I recommended it is that the Half Fare Card does only cover 50%, and if you do long train/bus trips this can quickly add up and the Graubünden pass in addition might pay off.

PalenQ

I've added up all the trips within Switzerland that we're likely to take (bus and train) and unless I've overlooked something,>

well if you are going to any of the 400+ Swiss museums and sites that the pass gives free entry to then that could make a difference as most are about $20 a pop - the famous Ballenberg Open-Air Museum overlooking Lake Brienz costs about $25 I think - free with pass (on days of 100% validity if using a flexipass however) - if it is even close between Half-Fare Swiss Card and pass go for the pass - you may use it more than you planned. And no waiting in lines to get a half-priced ticket.

Look for specials on Swiss Passes as they come and go - currently I believe there is a special that gives pass holders free rides on gondolas to some mountain tops - but check as often there has been a free extra day on some passes, etc. The specials come and go. And price the pass both in U S dollars and Swiss francs - often the past several years the same pass has been cheaper in U S for some reason - not always but compare and also factor in any foreign exchange fees for buying in CHF - if not much difference then just wait to buy your pass once there - which you can do at any Swiss train station.

Melnq8

Ingo -

No, I didn't calculate museum fees as it's unlikely we'll visit any, but that gives another nudge to the Swiss Pass.

PalenQ - Thanks for clearing up the Swiss Card - I was under the impression it was designed for those visiting a specific area, not darting around as we will be. The Ballenburg Museum looks interesting, but doesn't open until April.

I think I've talked myself into the Swiss Saver Pass - we live in Australia, so we'd buy it upon arrival - looks like 405 CHF each.

We used to always purchase the Swiss Pass, and there's no question that it's incredibly convenient. However, on our last visit we did the math; the Half Fare Card was a better deal for that particular trip.

This year it looks as if the Swiss Pass and the Bavarian ticket are the way to go.

Thank you all for your suggestions, very helpful.

PalenQ

PalenQ - Thanks for clearing up the Swiss Card - I was under the impression it was designed for those visiting a specific area, not darting around as we will be.>

that would be the Swiss Transfer Ticket which just gives you a round-trip between any airport or border station and any place in Switzerland (not sure it has to be round trip either) - only two train journeys - nothing else - no discounts, etc.

PalenQ

I think I've talked myself into the Swiss Saver Pass - we live in Australia, so we'd buy it upon arrival - looks like 405 CHF each.>

the only flexipass anyone should consider is a 3-day flexipass, not a 4 or longer - not sure what you 405 CHF pass is but if it is longer than 3 days you will probably lose money over buying a 3-day flexipass - in between the first and last day on flexipasses you get 50% off just about everything that moves in Switzerland except cows - thus a 4th day for it to break even you'd have to be traveling a long long way because the 50% off aspect means a 4th unlimited travel day would for nearly all uses be more expensive than a half-priced ticket for that day.

Just a thought in case you were buy a 5-day or so flexipass.

Melnq8

The 405 CHF is for a 15 day Swiss Saver Pass