kim

It's been a little slow on the Spain postings the last few days, so here's one to get a conversation started: <BR> <BR>We are planning on being in Seville on Sunday, Oct 3. Can anyone tell me if 1.) there's likely to be a bullfight that day (I have yet to find any conclusive info) and 2.) if so, will there likely be tickets to purchase even though we will arrive that same afternoon? I imagine we can get some from scalpers if they are officially sold out. Any suggestions on how to avoid being scammed on this type of transaction? <BR>

Maira

Kim, One of the most popular bullfighting plazas in Seville is La Maestranza. I recalled that in October they have a special celebration called Festival de la Hispanidad that runs till October 12th. During that period, and specially on Sundays they have a number of bullfights. Prices vary (per row, sun or shade, which time of day (4, 6 or 9pm), etc...). There are outlets all over the city (similar to a ticketmaster). If you are restricted to a specific date, try to contact your hotel concierge in advance and see what he/she recommends. There is a website that's kept updated (only in Spanish, though) with the latest news and schedules; http://www.portaltaurino.com <BR> <BR>Try to e-mail them and see if they help (director or redaccion) you out. If you need help with a Spanish translation, I can help you out. <BR> <BR>Hope this helps.

Sheila

It would be terrible not to be predictable, wouldn't it. <BR> <BR>Surely you would be better not to go and encurage this babaric sport. All the animal welfare charities, even the sensible ones, hate it. <BR> <BR>And before people start on about the culture that would be lost without it, we used to feel that way about bear baiting and cockfighting, and we wouldn't support them now. Would we?

Sheila

It would be terrible not to be predictable, wouldn't it. <BR> <BR>Surely you would be better not to go and encurage this babaric sport. All the animal welfare charities, even the sensible ones, hate it. <BR> <BR>And before people start on about the culture that would be lost without it, we used to feel that way about bear baiting and cockfighting, and we wouldn't support them now. Would we?

Richard

I'm with Sheila 100%, this is no sport, it's a public slaughterhouse, 1 bull, coming out of the dark into the brilliant sun, against the picadors, toreadors and the matador! After the bull is slaughtered he is dragged off to the butcher next door (at least this is how it was in Barcelona in 1958) and if he was brave you can buy his balls, if the matador didn't perform well I presume his were safe.

Richard

By the by, it's called a corrida. To me, it's akin to deer "hunting" here in Texas where they put out a feeder for the deer before season starts so when the deer shows up as part of his routine the mighty hunter kills him, some sport.

Bob

We were in Sevelle a few years ago and part of our group went to the bullfight there. I passed. They reported it was like the minor leagues in baseball. Had some kid up for his first time and he got whipped. I was pleased for the bull. Rest of the fights were same old stuff........bloody and boring. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Wendy

Phooey to the naysayers. See a bullfight if you have a chance. Most of it is symbolic, so you might want to read up on it first so you can understand what's going on.

Richard

Wendy, Please expound on the symbolism and references on where we might read up on it, certainly not Shotgun Ernie.

Cheryl Z.

<BR>Kim, having just been to Spain for our first time this past spring, I can tell you that there is so much other meaningful Spanish cultural sites and events to see - a bullfight just isn't necessary to experience Spain. There is so much beauty, scenery, history, charm, architecture, not to mention the food! Have a wonderful trip.

Maira

In the concept of bullfighting you find two opposites and divergent views, (i.e. that of Richard and that of Wendy) which makes any discussion about the pros and cons of bullfighting an exercise in futility. There is intense symbolism in the fight of a bull (power), the bravery of the Matador (people), and the audience (empathy with suffering of BOTH). It is not a coincidence that bullfighting has been more popular with the Spaniards in times of political discontent and absolutism (Franco Era, Jose Bonaparte, Isabel II). <BR> <BR>I agree that if anybody is to get anything out of a witnessing this event should have an in-depth understanding of it. I personally don't promote this event because its symbolism has no personal meaning to me. But I wouldn't get on a "high horse" and blast those who do continue a practice that in the past has acted as an effective "social pacifier" and contributed greatly to keeping a country cohesive in times of economical and social suffering. <BR> <BR>Maybe that is why bullfighting is not as popular with the locals these days...

Martha B

If you get a chance, try to see a bullfight on Spanish television before you buy the tickets, so you know exactly what you're getting into. It starts off with lots of pageantry. Then a torero plays the bull with a cape about the size of a large table cloth. This is colorful to watch, but make no mistake, the bull isn't wild; it's a fattened farm animal. Then the bull is attacked from horseback by the picadors. Although the horses have blinders and padding, they look pretty terrified, as the bull repeatedly charges into them. It's happened that horses have been disemboweled. The picador spears the bull on its shoulders and neck. This is supposed to make the bull fighting mad; in fact, the point is to damage the neck muscles so it can't toss anyone. <BR>In the next part, the torero places short spears in the bull's neck. He then plays the bull with a short cape over a wooden sword. By this time the bull is bleeding heavily, and panting with exhaustion. He has to be encouraged to make a run for the cape. <BR>Finally, the matador swaps his wooden sword for a steel one and makes the "kill". It's considered a clean kill if he manages to get the sword into the chest cavity so that the bull bleeds to death fairly quickly. When the bull sinks to its knees, the matador acknowledges the cheers of the crowd, while the puntillero, an older man who looks like a butcher in spite of his suit of lights, puts the bull out of its misery with a knife in the spinal column. If the matador has fought particularly bravely, he is awarded both ears of the bull. If the bull has fought particularly bravely, its carcase is cheered by the crowd as it is dragged off by mules. And there you have it.

dan woodlief

I guess I have always felt a curiousity about seeing a bullfight, especially since I am quite fond of "Shotgun Ernie's" works. However, the animal-lover and humanitarian side of me wonders whether I would be better off never witnessing one. Anyway, no one has mentioned to Kim that she may see possibly more humane bullfights in Portugal. Can someone who has seen one there comment?

Richard

Well said Martha, Maira's metaphors are dreck.

Sheila

Actaully they're not dreck. they just don't (in my opinion) justify the damage to the animals. Nor do I think we should pacify the masses by pandering to our baser instincts.

Maira

Richard and Sheila, thanks for reading my post. <BR> <BR>The intent of my previous message was to respond to a comment on symbolism in bullfighting, not to endorse of glorify animal cruelty. I've not personally seen, nor plan on seeing a bullfight, but have cared enough to educate myself on the topic (part personal curiosity, part personal heritage) to both make a personal judgement on whether to attend or not, as well as share the historical perspective in this forum. <BR> <BR>BTW, I looked up "dreck" in our dictionary and it defined it as "true, without an iota of question". Appreciate the compliment, Sir Richard .

kim

Ouch, really, I didn't mean to start an ethics debate! Note that I didn't ask for opinions...I was hoping to avoid this type of heated discussion. However, knowing it is such a controversial subject, I should have suspected it would end up there. <BR> <BR>Thanks, to Maira for the information, as well as for everyone else's comments. They are appreciated, no matter what we end up doing. (And I shant say--I think ultimately the decision shall be made in Seville, based on many factors.)

Richard

Maira, I have that same dictionary, published by the Good Old Yiddish Company. Words to express one's self exactly.

topper

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