We are that party of 12 going to Lisbon in August, and we had planned on going to Obidos, Nazare, Alcobaca, Fatima and Batalha for one day, using a minibus and driver. HOWEVER...Everyone talks about Marvao, should we go there instead? Could we incorporate anything else on the way? Would it be worth it to do that and see the countryside on the way to Marvao? Half of my group has been to Portugal, and has seen Obidos. The rest are seeing Lisbon and Portugal for the first time, and we will all head north to Montalegre after the 6-day stay in Lisbon. This is our search for family roots, getting to know the culture and looking for my mothers' family's town of origin. Thanks for opinions and suggestions, just looking to maximize the stay for everyone.
Susana

I do not know where Nazare and Alcobaca are located, but Obidos is more logical in terms of geography than Marvão. I also suspect that it has more to offer. We stayed in Marvão and fond that a couple of hours strolling in the town just about covers it.

not <i>fond</i>, but <i>found</i>.

If you fit in Tomar, I would strongly urge you to do so. I preferred it to Batalha.

there is some very good information on most of the best towns and villages in that area on this website,including Tomar. might be helpful to give you an idea where to visit
http://www.gekkoportugal.com/central%20portugal.htm

Hi, Susana,

I'm one of those who waxes poetically about Marvao. I have been there several times and never tire of the views and the castle and the old streets. However, I will say that with each visit I realize that it is becoming more and more Obidos-ized with each passing year -- that is, it is slowly losing its identity as a real town and becoming a tourist town. I suppose it's on the trajectory of becoming like old Carcassonne -- a walled place where no one lives and the only commerce is geared to tourists. But oh well. One last Marvao observation -- when I was just there in March, many of the streets were torn up, making it a challenge to walk around.

Both Obidos and Marvao are very pretty, Marvao strikes me as bigger, thus giving you more walking to do. And the Marvao castle has lots to explore, whereas the Obidos castle is mainly the pousada. But Marvao is way out of the way, whereas Obidos, Nazare, Alcobaca, Fatima and Batalha are all in relatively close proximity.

I know you didn't ask this, but let me just say that I think you've got an incredibly ambitious itinerary for one day. I'm a pretty high activity level traveler, and I can't imagine actually seeing and enjoying all of those places in a day. True, the daylight hours are longest in summer, but even so.

I suppose that having a minibus and driver will cut down on time spent on hassles over parking, getting lost, etc., but if I were you I'd plan the itinerary so you were sure to make it to the places highest on your list and can eliminate some at the end if you're saturated. Just a suggestion. Have a great trip.

I do love Marvao but it is too far for that scenario. Concentrate on Obidos and Nazare.

Thanks for all your tips, I will reconsider the itinerary Irneynold1 I am just trying to satisfy everyone in the group in a short amount of time. I understand what you are saying about Obidos becoming Obidos-ized! Also I am trying your favorite restaurant, Lautasco, in Alfama. Can you give a more specific location or will I find it? I am gathering ideas for dining in Lisbon, yes I have contacted LDC. Thanks again
Susana

Hi, Susana49,

I wouldn't say that the Lautasco is my favorite restaurant in Lisbon, but it is one place with nice outside seating. It's down at the &quot;bottom&quot; of the Alfama, and on the edge, close to the river. The address is: Beco do Azinhal, 7A, Lisbon 1100067 • 21-886-0173. and if you plug that in mappy.co.uk, you will see its location.

I know you didn't ask for my favorite Lisbon restaurants, but I'll throw out a couple anyway.

I guess this is my favorite if I'm going to splurge a bit -- For a very nice, &quot;nouveau&quot; Portuguese meal, I highly recommend Terreiro do Paco. It's in the Baixa in the Praca do Comercio, www.terreiropaco.com I don't know what your budget is, it's not an outrageously high end place, but it's a bit pricey. It's in a renovated old building, beautiful brick ceiling, great wine selection, best scallops I've ever had (appetizer) and delicious tuna from the azores. Cheese plate for dessert == makes my mouth water thinking about it.

For more traditional, much less expensive, the Adega Sao Roque is one of our favorites. We go to Lisbon every year and we always go here for a seafood cataplana (a two person stew with yummy broth and seasonings). We're even willing to sit on the little stools with no back support for several hours to enjoy this meal. The adega is a few steps down from street level, on the end of the Rua de Misericordia, right across the square from the Sao Roque church. An additional advantage is that it's open Sunday evenings (many are closed).

I guess I should stop, I'm getting way off the point of this thread, sorry! But if you want more Lisbon restaurant recommendations, I'm always happy to share my favorites. LR

Ireynold1

This is great! We are looking for any and all suggestions. I have been to Lisbon 5 times in the last 30 years, starting from when I was a 20 year old student at the University for a summer course. My grandparents on both sides are from the north. I also lived in Brazil for year and studied and worked in Rio. But Lisbon has always been near and dear to my heart. I have been back with my mum and sisters and daughters, but this time there are some folks in my group who have never been there. We are 12 total in our group and will use a minibus for a couple of days when we tour. We have 3 apartments in the Pena parish, behind the Teatro Nacional , near the Inatel headquarters, and have 6 nights in Lisbon, before heading north to Montalegre. I have been trying to plan our time there. My tentative itinerary, which is subject to economic constraints looks like this;
arrive Friday and use the tram 28 to view around Lisbon and then go to Castelo de Sao Jorge, wander through Alfama, have lunch(Lautasco), go to Olisponia (some sort of presentation about the city?), and maybe Feira da Ladra, with dinner up for grabs???
Saturday wander through Baixa, take the ferry to Cacilhas for views, lunch?then tour the Tejo on that cruise from Praco do Commercio that leaves at 3 each day with dinner at Adega das Gravatas ( on the advice of LDC)
Sunday, we go to Igreja de Sao Roque for mass, and to see the museum there, then the elevador da Gloria to Chiado, maybe lunch in Largo Trinidade Coelho, and then spend the afternoon in Belem and see all that is there. Dinner??
Monday we are off to Sintra by minibus, passing through Cascais and Estoril on the way. No set plans that day
Tuesday we are on the road for a long time! Alcobaca, Nazare, Fatima and Batalha, we are out of Lisbon for 9 or 10 hours!
Wednesday we wander around Lisbon again, walking the Avenida de Liberdade, maybe going to the Parque Eduardo VII , maybe the Gulbenkian etc, Thursday we leave for Oporto and then Montalegre.
Whew!!! What do you think? Remember, my mum and I speak Portuguese, my sisters can get by. Do you think we will be alright with this? Thanks so much. You are very kind to assist our trip planning, and YES tell us your favorite restaurants.
Susana

Hi, Susana, Your trip sounds like a wonderful adventure. I'll give some reactions, but I'm not presuming to know what's best for you and your group.

Friday -- I think the Feira da Ladra only runs on Tuesday and Saturday. You probably already know that it's only got a few things that most tourists would be interested in. Lots of old clothes and junk/&quot;antiques&quot; and cds.

Saturday -- I personally would find the trip to Cacilhas and the tour on the Tejo kind of duplicative and would choose one over the other.

Sunday -- In between the elevador and the Sao Roque church is the Igreja do Carmo, the ruins of a gothic church that now houses a small collection of art and historical pieces. We've taken several visitors there and some love it and some are bored.

Monday -- In between Sintra and Estoril/Cascais is one of our favorite Lisbon area restaurants (though I'm not sure whether it's open on Monday, I'd call if I were you -- 21-928-0028). It's on a small beach, the Praia d'Adraga, which has a few big imposing rock structures, maybe 100 yards of sandy cove, a parking lot, and this restaurant right on the beach looking out over the water. I think the name is just Adraga. It serves grilled fresh fish of all types, depending on the catch, I suppose, and they bring the uncooked fish to you to choose if you are knowledgeable enough to be able to select from the looks of things. Terrific. And if you're driving on that part of the coast, a stop at Cabo da Roca is easy and pretty amazing. There are also some nice hikes that leave off of side roads on the way into the parking lot.

An interesting attraction between Sintra and the coast is the Convento dos Capuchos, a very unusual monastery (only 8 small rooms for 8 monks) with great views over the coastline. You get a very interesting tour.

One Lisbon sight you didn't mention was the Tile Museum. Sounds weird to a lot of people, but it's in a beautiful old monastery, has a tiled chapel and lots of displays and explanations about the history of Portuguese tiles. There is also a very nice cafe for lunch or a snack. You might check before going, I heard that there had been some renovations planned.

One of my favorite Lisbon neighborhoods is Campo d'Ourique, which is more or less the neighborhood behind Estrela, at the end of the 28 tram line (if you take a tram that says Prazeres). When we take visitors on the tram, we start in Martim Moniz at the beginning of the line, and then take the tram up around the back part of the castle, through Graca, past Sao Vicente da Fora, then down through the castle district, rossio, Chiado and ends in Prazeres. The neighborhood of Campo Ourique is right there -- it's a nice 19th century (?) grid streets neighborhood, lots of trees, a pleasant place to stroll. It's also got one of the few working markets in Lisbon. Also, one of our favorite Lisbon restaurants is there -- Tasquinha d'Adelaide, but I think you would need to reserve the whole place, because they have a seating capacity of about 14, I think. Great lamb (and I'm not much of a meat eater) and arroz de pato. Reservations ahead of time are usually required.

And here are a few more of my favorite restaurants:

Cervejaria Ramiro
Avenida Almerante Reis 1 G-H
21-885-10 24
Bustling, casual, non-touristy seafood restaurant. Reservations required. No English menu. Excellent oysters, barnacles, clams, crab.

Tamarind (Indian)
Rua da Gloria 43-45
Off Avenida Liberdade near the Ascensor Gloria. Walking from Restauradores to Marques de Pombal, turn left at Vision Lab and proceed up hill. Very stylish magenta and blue space. Some of the best Indian food in Lisbon. Green fish curry, shrimp malay, lamb tika, tandoori chicken, lentil soup with mint and lime.

Taberna do Visconde -- nice outdoor seating, great salmon, it's a downstairs cafe connected with the upstairs (fancier and more expensive) Club dos Empresarios. Location is right on the Av. da Republica near Campo Pequeno metro stop. It's got a nice courtyard with the outdoor seating kind of hidden from the hustle of Av. da Republica.

A Policia near Gulbenkian – very good fish. Only restaurant we went to with a non-smoking ROOM.

Well, I've gone on way too long. Hope at least some of this is of interest. And I hope you have a wonderful trip! You'll have to report back, especially about your trip to Montalegre and what you visited. LR

And p.s.
Yesterday's New York Times had an article about Marvao in the Travel Section. The link is http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/04/29...tml?ref=travel (I think you may need to register with them to see it, but I don't think there's a charge).

THANK YOU for all those suggestions. I will be in touch after the trip to let you know how it all came out, especially Montalegre. I loved all your suggestions! You are most kind to take the time and trouble to help.
Susana

No need to register.
I try to visit Marvao at least once a year. Sit in an outside cafe, ask for a drink and spent 1 or 2 hours overlooking the Spanish plains (where it's known the rain stays mainly).
My favourite reflection there is how unlikely country Portugal is. No major geographical accidents (rivers, mountains or whatever sepparating from neighbour kingdoms), no natural resources, but the immense stubbornness of their inhabitants.

marking, thanks