We have an opportunity to schedule a vacation to Italy in February 2004. This would be our first trip abroad, and as we are in our mid 40's we did not know if we would like a fully escorted tour with the retirees but feel a little uncomfortable getting off the plan and just "winging it".We would have 10-14 days and would like to experience some of the tourist destinations but have usually enjoyed the smaller, more native experience when traveling. We thought 3 cities with one being Venice and have started searching travel companies etc. We would appreciate some help with itinerary and whether to go guided for our first experience or how to plan an independent with low travel stress for these two Minnesotan travelers. Thanks in advance.

Use the "Text Search" feature on this board, typing in and entering a town or city, etc and then "enter". You'll find many itineraries and many answers to your questions.

I certainly think you should steer clear of an escorted tour but that you shouldn't wing it either. Something in between.

February weather should be a factor in choosing where to go (south rather than north).

This is a tough one. We prefer independent travel but we have made many trips to Europe and feel comfortable doing that.

If this is your first trip I would recommend going with a good group. They will get you to where you want to go with minimal hassle and worry on your part. They will help with the language, etc.

Schedule one that allows free time to explore on your home. We have been on some groups and really enjoyed the people and the trip. That would be my recommendation for trip#1 to Italy.

We are older than you and we always travel to Europe on our own. We have never been on an escorted tour. Day tours yes, which are great for getting out of major cities and seeing a bit of the countryside. For the whole trip, however, we like the freedom of doing as we wish and staying as long as we wish at interesting sites, etc.

I don't think you would have a problem outlining your trip and going on your own. There is lots of info here and a good guide book or two should get you started.

Personally we enjoy escorted travel. Just did a 2 week tour if Italy with Maupin and had a great time. I love not having to drive or schlep luggage. Also it's a pretty good bet that all the meals will be good and you'll get to see all the best sites without the que and have your own personal guide. To me it is much more informative than on our own. The main negative is that you are sometimes not up for chat with other passengers but each tour company is different. Depending on how much $$ you want to spend you can opt to have dinner on your own or some tour companies such as Tauck allow you have dinner alone and at whatever time you please. Also on the lower end of the spectrum my parents just completed a Trafalgar Tour of Italy and had the best time of their lives.

P.S. We are in our early thirties and have had all ages on our tours. While the majority is retirees there's usually one or two couples our age at least. But then again I prefer the company of older adults! Have a great trip whatever you choose.

I used the search panel on the top of this page for Italy fares and was given two correspondences that will help you, Discounted Escorted Tour packages and Timing plane ticket purchase to Italy

I should try the leading agency for Italy, CIT. Their site http://www.cit-tours.com/tours/magnificent-trio.html offers you a Leonardo our or Titiano tour. You are not in a group, but do have people looking after each move and each stay. The price looks high to me, but that is because I do not pay a transatlantic air fare, and use two star hotels.

I still do not rule out independent travel. I think the great three are Venice, Florence and Rome. You would buy a guide book for Italy (Fodors seems a good idea), and design your stay, or use the search panel for Rome hotel, Florence hotel, and Venice hotel to see what readers have liked, and book those. You would travel between cities by train, probable Eurostar Italia, but if you want to enjoy the scenery between Florence and Rome you would use an InterCity train with restaurant car. You need not book those trains from the States, but can book all of them in the first city of Italy that you come to.

On arrival in each city you would ask your hotel reception staff to phone the city tourist office to ask for the place and time of the next two-hour walking tour if the city centre. Such tours are fun, and give you a quick view of places that you will visit at length later in your stay. The same hotel staff can tell you of concerts or opera or jazz for evenings. In short, you have no tour organiser, but have staff in each hotel who know and love their city. If you forget to pack a corkscrew, they can tell you of a shop nearby that sells them.

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Wow! Thanks all. I have taken some of your ideas and some from other postings and copied them to my working "notes for trip to Italy". I wonder if you could tell me how important it is to take the first-class or deluxe when we do not plan to spend alot of time in our rooms. Hot water at the end of a long day would be welcome however.

One of you needs to be a good detail person. Someone needs to read the books, look at maps and do all the planning. Very few just arrive and wing it. They have a plan. If your 19 and backpacking it then you can wing it. If you are using vacation time and savings then you are trying to get your money's worth.

I use city-centre two-star hotels or pensions, with a bathroom en suite, and enjoy them. I think most Fodors forum people are in 3 or 4 star, with elegance. If you do seek two star, I think you pretty well have to book independently: travel agencies do not make a big percentage off two-star. Again, for advice from travellers on two-star, when you have chosen your cities you might (if Fodors will forgive me) like to ask for advice on hotels from Lonely Planet readers: you go into http://www.lonelyplanet.com, then Thorn tree, then West Europe. Again, you could start on Thorn tree by using their search software for hotel Rome, hotel Venice and hotel Florence.

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I have been to Italy 7 times in the last 5 years, but on our original tour, we used GoAhead Tours. It is an "independent" tour. They get you there and to each of your hotels, and it seems like they provided a short overview tour of each city; otherwise, unless you book one of their optional tours (which you can do after you get there), your days are your own. The "guide" is in each hotel with you, if you need help with plans. On our tours, we never saw the other people in the group, except on the buses from place to place. Although I plan all our trips now, and we go to Europe at least twice every year, that was a comfortable way to start out.

Hmmm...First class vs. deluxe. As mentioned above, some first class tours give optionals for an additional price. If you don't take the optionals you may not get to see much of a destination. The cost should be factored into the tour so you're not surprised. Again, if you're more independant you may choose to not take an optional as sight see on your own.

Deluxe tours will incluse all of the sightseeing. There is a big difference in accommodations. With deluxe tours you often get to stay in historic landmark hotels. But again as you said you don't spend all that much time in the room. Breakfast has hot and cold choices. Dinner is usually 3-5 courses. I've traveled with 4 tour companies and IMO Tauck runs the best show BUT the tour guide may be American when you sometimes wish them to be from the country you're visiting. This may have changed in the last 2 years however.

Ben and Marty - I wish I could put you in my pocket and take you with. It's not that I don't like planning, details or lack confidence, but like any novice, am not wanting to make a mistake that would put a dent in my "travelin jones". I will be spending alot of time on this site and keeping notes, buying guides, but still wish I was traveling with a seasoned traveler. Luckily, my husband is a good sport and up for adventure. Keep his tummy full and he is a happy traveler. I will research more and check back here for more hints. Sound like Elaine has some great files I might need to check out.

The more you study, research and plan the more confidence you'll gain. You've got plenty of time to do that.

Next time you post, make the title more explicit and/or specific. You'll draw answers in kind.

Oh, Pheasant, I wish I could go with you in your pocket! One reason I have been so often is because I like to take my friends and show them all the things I love; it is like seeing things all over again to see it through someone else's eyes. In fact, my husband and I just got back from a week in Venice, our fifth trip there, and the only time we have ever been with just the two of us. If you decide to take the independent tour, don't worry about taking the optional tours unless it is something you really want to do. You can fill days and days on your own. Keep asking questions and your plans will work out whichever way you decide to travel. To me, once your hotels are set, the hardest parts of any trip to a foreign city are figuring out how to get from the airport to the hotel, how the public transportation operates, and how to get from city to city. Plenty of people here will help with that.

Hi pheasant,

I think independent travel is the way to go. I've only taken one escorted tour and was disappointed. I like to linger at sights and in cafes and like to choose what I'm going to see. Tours take you to a lot of places so people who like tours believe they've seen a lot but tours don't offer the depth I like.

Since you mentioned Venice, here's a list of things I enjoyed and some things I have planned for the next trip. I've sure if you do a search here you'll find lots of info on the things I've listed.

Doges Palace (sign up for the Secret Itinerary tour)
St. Mark's Basilica
Walking tour (I did American Express but didn't care for it). You might try Venice Walks and Tours
http://www.venicewalksandtours.com/
Gondola ride (take one that stays in the smaller canals)
Accademia Museum
Scala del Bovalo
Venetian mask workshop
Lagoon islands (Murano, Burano, Torcello)
Street vendors at Rialto Bridge and St. Marks

adrienne

Pheasant -- Independent travel is my favored method. If you are a bit hesitant you can go to Slowtravel.com and look through the list of consultants who can provide some good guidance.

Hi, pheasant!

What a marvellous time for you! Part of our fun is during the planning stage!

From the amount of anxiety you are having at this moment, I would suggest a guided tour for you. It takes a lot of the hassles out of travelling for you, such as searching for a hotel, booking it, then arriving and trying to find its physical location, paying the hotel bill in foreign money (even if it is in Euros!); then trying to find the sights that you want to see in that city, asking directions of someone who may be helpful but doesn't speak English, finding a restaurant, and on and on - you get the idea. YOU are responsible for everything on the trip.

Contrast that with a tour group that has everything taken care of and you just get on the plane and the tour company takes over once you land. They will get you to your hotel, get you checked in, tell you when and where to meet for the first tour - in other words, a lot of the detail planning is taken care of for you.

I would also suggest getting Rick Steves' books. They are relatively simple to read and he usually highlights the most important or the most interesting cities and areas in any one country. There is not an overwhelming amount of information. For art in Europe, he has a relatively easy to read book called "Mona Winks".

If you are determined to go it alone, then I would suggest getting the Lonely Planet books, as they seem to have the best maps, especially of some cities that don't seem to be mapped by any other guide book. For really intellectual and in depth personal touring, I would suggest either Cadogan's or the Rough Guide.

Happy travels!

Independent travel can be great fun, though it may be a little "harder" at times. I would also second Rick Steves' books. In particular is his "Europe Through the Back Door", half of which is more of a how-to travel in Europe. My wife and I used this before our first trip and found it very helpful. (In fact, less than 2 years after that trip, we moved here. ) He also has a website (www.ricksteves.com) which includes forums on the "mechanics" of traveling (in addition to comments about specific places).

Since you mentioned Venice, my wife and I recently did 10 days in Italy, going Rome to Orvieto to Florence to Venice to Pisa and quite enjoyed it. Another idea might be to go from Venice into the Dolimites, across Austria to Munich. My wife and I generally plan on a mixture of mutli-night stops and a few single-nights, but we try to do more than many people here would suggest.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your trip,
Paul
(An American in Marburg)

Thanks all- I should have been more specific in my post message and would have probably been awash with replies but want you to know how much these replies have helped. Jason888- have you taken a guided tour and with what company? Paul and Adrienne make me want to just "go for it" and yet if you could know some of our horror stories about turning right when we should have turned left...frustrated husband syndrome sets in and then he get grumpy. I usually laugh and tell him we might have been sent this way for a reason... who knows ... fate, karma and serendipidy are funny guys. I will check other sites and check back here but might make another posting that is more specific. Thanks again.

Pheasant,

Some of my and my husband's greatest travel experiences have been the result of complete accidents of fortune, or wrong turns, or whimsies, or a sudden tossing of the itinerary out the window, so to speak. In other words, don't be afraid to just 'go with the flow' !

I hope you and your husband have a wonderful time on your first trip abroad.