We're planning on attending the Notting Hill Carnival this August Bank Holiday. Has anyone else done this? We'll be bringing our 4 year old son so we're planning on going on Sunday, the designated children's day. We do have a couple of questions.

Parade: We've heard Sunday is safer and better for kids, but the parade is on Monday. Is the parade too good to miss? Will we be disappointed that we didn't get to see it -- or relieved that we didn't spend all of that time to since my son wouldn't see much anyway?

Participation: My husband and I could people watch all day, but my son needs to move and wiggle. Will he get a chance to play a bit -- or will it be so jam packed that he'll spend the day on my husband's shoulders?

Timing: We have to take the train in and out so it does make for a long day. If we only have a few hours, which few hours should they be? I would assume mid day would be best for our son, but is it more exciting in the evening?

Safety: Every time we mention this to a Brit they tell us to pack our flak jackets and leave the jewelry and cameras at home. I've read that there have been a few incidents -- but how could there not be with a festival this large in a huge city? Are they just pulling my leg or being alarmists? Obviously we will be cautious and aware of our surroundings as we always are. This should be enough, right?

Sorry for all the questions -- I'm having a hard time finding information online.
Thanks!

There have been some problems in the past but no more than any other similar events around the world. I have been many years ago and would not hesitate to go again. Pickpockets will be around fso you need to take care but I see little point in visiting withou a camera. Here is a link to the main carnival site which covers safety and getting there etc.

http://www.thenottinghillcarnival.com/

www.bbc.co.uk should also provide futher info on past events.

There is a parade on Sunday.

I went to the Sunday carnival a few years ago with my son, we had a blast. Good food, great parade, good atmosphere. There isn't usually any trouble until later in the evenings - and even then considering how many people are there, it's no more than you might expect anywhere.

It gets VERY crowded and you have to plan your route in/out well as certain tube stations are closed and they try to funnel people into a few areas. The only crime I'd worry about really is pickpockets taking advantage of the crowd.

You can always move away from the front of the parade area to get a bit of space when you want a breather, but directly along the route, you'd want to keep a tight hold on little'un as it is so packed. We were fine until the parade had finished passing us and we, along with the rest of the crowd turned to leave. It was like being carried along in a tide. I had a fistful of my 13 year sons coat held tight but we still nearly got separated a couple of times. So dad's shoulders in the very crowded bits would be safest. And make sure your kid has some id/your phone number on him just in case.

But really, don't listen to the scaredy cats. It's a lovely, busy,crowded, exciting but safe afternoon.

How honest a reply do you want?

Here's the view of a serving Police Officer....

Parade: We've heard Sunday is safer and better for kids, but the parade is on Monday. Is the parade too good to miss? >>>

Sunday's not TOO bad. Monday is a riot. Every year. If yo don't know the area (ie where to hide) it's dangerous. Sorry but it is.


Timing: We have to take the train in and out so it does make for a long day. >>>

Yes. Transport is limted and controlled. Seriously - don't go. It's crowded and dangerous and full of idiots. It's in the wrong place. Notting hill is a residential area and can't cope with it.


Safety: Every time we mention this to a Brit they tell us to pack our flak jackets and leave the jewelry and cameras at home.>>>

I'd also add that you should wear a kevlar helmet and stay at home.

On your own head be it - but it's not somewhere I'd take a kid. Or a girl, or Lennox Lewis.

oh give over cw, the Sunday afternoon is ok..yes it's crowded, yes transport is a nightmare...but there's not much trouble and I've not heard of any incidents with your bog-standard family visitor.

The Monday, or later on Sunday, yeah I would have said skip it.

oh give over cw, >>>>

No.

There is an entire department at the Yard that does nothing but plan for the NHC. It's also the biggest operation in any given year. 20,000 of us. Even the miners didn't get that. Even Bush didn't get that.

Why don't we tell the truth about it? Well you can guess that.

I like the overtime. I like the fights. I like the general smacking that goes on.

But go there for free? Not for a big clock.

Great. Thanks for the sites and the advice. I couldn't find a time for the parade on Sunday though. If (and that's a bigger IF than before I posted, darn it) we go we'd like to be out of there by early afternoon. Any ideas?

Nona, losing my son in a crowd is a huge fear. I think my husband's shoulders is the perfect place. In fact, I should see if there is room up there for me, that way we never get separated!

CW -- I appreciate your honesty. It's not what I wanted to hear but with your experience your opinion is definitely valid. Now we'll just see if we're smart enough to follow it -- or silly enough to ignore it and cross our fingers.

<<But go there for free? Not for a big clock.>>

I'm sure there is another meaning behind this. I am trying to rhyme something with clock and honestly, what I'm coming up with probably isn't an incentive for CW any time.

For a big clock = what they give your widow. It's slang for a suicide mission.

If you MUST go (and really you shouldn't) stay to the main streets and don't take anything you can't afford to lose (this ESPECIALLY applies to your passports/ID as tourists are targetted for these).

But you have been warned - it's dangerous and rubbish.

I'll be there, but I'm being paid double to go. For free? See the big clock.

CW echoes my experience at the Carnival a few years back - a real mob scene and even i felt in peril - the crowd control barriers often had me in a way too jammed place with no easy exit - indeed when i needed to get out it took me a long time weaving between crowd control barricades - no place for a 4 yr old - i would never take a child there and i myself would never go into that type of mob crowds either. My suggestion if you want to go come in from the north and not the south as most do and stay on the periphery - the parade can be seen a bit but to go into the morass with a 4 yr old - well based on my experience NO.

But really, don't listen to the scaredy cats. It's a lovely, busy,crowded, exciting but safe afternoon.>

Not at all in my experience - not at all! Sign me scaredy cat.

For once I totally agree w/ PQ

I'd never EVER take a young child. You know how crowded Portobello Rd gets on a Sat? Well - multiply that by hundreds of times. It is an absolute zoo. Just nuts.

I haven't been for several years but to give you an idea how your poor son would feel -- I am pretty short and big crowds can be difficult. When I'm in a sea of people I can never see anything except other peoples belt buckles. Only a slight exaggeration - sometimes it is arm pits and that is worse!!

Your son will have to ride on Dad's shoulders pretty much the whole time -- and that could be very scary since there are quite literally waves of people and it would be easy for Dad to lose his footing.

Now - it isn't 100% bad -- can be quite fun in bits. But it is NOT a place I'd take a small child and I personally will probably never again attend the carnival . . . .

I'm not a nervous nellie about almost anything - but don't go.

One has to wonder if some of the folk above who discount any problems have ever been to the Carnie?

The noise is phenomenal and many local people move out for the weekend. If it went wrong your child could be traumatised for a very long time. You can see it on television.

Bit off topic but once when i was writing for my publication a list of events in Britain for the upcoming year i called the BTA in NY to ask why the Notting Hill Carnival was not on their prepared list of events and wanted to know the exact dates - and the English sounding lady said "Oh that's a purely ethnic event"as to why it weren't listed."

well yes it is largely ethnic but can be enjoyed and indeed is by a multi-ethnic crowd. Great event but seems to have grown too big for the venue. It may well have been the most densest crowd i've ever been in and one that seemed endless once inside.

This is all so disappointing. I spent some time on youtube and watched videos of previous years. I guess it just doesn't seem like a great place to take a 4 year old, even the children's day. Super bummer.

helen - I misread your post and thought you meant we could watch children being traumatised by the carnival on t.v.

Off to find something that really IS family friendly for the Bank Holiday.

Thanks for all your help.

http://www.met.police.uk/nottinghillcarnival/

whilst trolling thru the London Met Police web site i noticed this Special Advice and Caution for the Nottinghill Carnival - some useful advice.