chezcathy

Hi all,

FIRST, I must admit: We're avid travelers in our fifties, yet my husband and I haven't been to Italy. Perhaps I can excuse this sad oversight due to lots of trips around meeting up with family (who live in Australia; we live in the US). We're FINALLY going this September!!

BACKGROUND: We've already got our 3-week tickets flying into Bologna and out of Venice, leaving Sept 6. In that amount of time, I know we're not going to see everything... hopefully we make some future trips again. We both prefer areas not too touristy but still want to enjoy some of the essentials. We enjoy the usual tourist sites, but don't like being indoors all day, and my favorite thing is simply enjoying the towns and people (I help small businesses so enjoy quaint shopping areas even though I rarely buy anything). We're not huge foodies (though I adore visiting markets!!) And favorite thing is getting some bike riding in when we can (we've done entire trips all by bike).

Here's are our ITINERARY (21 nights, 20 days):
-Fly into Bologna, arrive late, stay 3 nights (giving us 2 days)
-Early train to Florence, stay 2 nights in Florence (2 days)
-10am pickup car rental in Florence, drive to Siena, stay 3 nights and explore Siena, Chianti, maybe day trip to Val d'Orcia (3 days) - Try to get 1-2 days of cycling in (3 days)
-Drive to San Gimignano - not sure if this is a good area for cycling (2 days)
-Drive to Lucca - get some cycling in, visit Pisa as well (2 days)
-Drive to Spezia to park car then take transport to Cinque Terre (stay 2 days in Volastra)
-Back to Spezia and drive to Parma to break up the drive (1 day)
-Drive to Bassano del Grappa (stop on way in Verona) and spend 3 nights, with day trips to visit Vicenza and Treviso (3 days)
-Drive to Padua and drop the car off; morning exploration of Padua then take the train to Venice
-Stay in Venice 3 nights (really 2.5 days since the we fly out early

How does this look? Especially:
-Does this look reasonable overall (e.g. should we skip San Gimignano to spend an extra day each in Cinque Terre and in Parma?)
-Is it Goldilocks-right as far as the # of stays (not too many, not too few) given 3 weeks?
-I know we haven't got the Dolomites in there at all, and am wondering if we should carve out some time to go there.
Any other suggestions?
And if anyone has any suggestions RE open markets, would love to hear about them

THANKS FOR THE INPUT!

yestravel

Where you say you have 2 days when you are spending only 2 nights is not clear. With 2 nights you really only have 1 full day & part of the arrival day or departure day.

Have you checked on transportation options from Volastra? I assume there are buses you can take from there? It's not a part of the CT 5 villages/ regular route. I think its a nice place to stay if you can get around from there. Expect CT to be very busy then, but I would imagine Volastra way less. We were in CT in May and it was packed. We met a couple staying in Volastra who loved it, but they had their own car.

Parma is a great little town and well worth exploring for more than i night. I'd give it 2 nights so you have one full day-- Its somewhat off the beaten [size=13px]tourist[/size] track .

Overall I would say eliminate a [size=13px]couple[/size] places and spend more time in some places like Florence. If you really want to get a flavor or places, your itin will not give you that. If you just want to see a place and move on you will get that. For me this would be way too much even though you have 3 weeks. Italy moves at a slower pace that the US and to enjoy it you might think about moving a touch slower.

HappyTrvlr

We love Bassano del Grappa and have been there twice. It’s Alpine feel is a nice change for a few days.

chezcathy

Thanks yestravel and HappyTrvlr...
I made a few clarifications and added a day in Lucca to ensure time cycle and stop at San Gimignano on the way. We'll have our own car, but I'm still wondering if this is too ambitious! And if it is, what we should consolidate.

• 9/7-10 Bologna
  • Arrive late in Bologna on 9/7, stay 3 nights
• 9/10-9/12 Florence
  • Early train to Florence, stay 2 nights in Florence
• 9/12-9/15
  • 9/12 10am pickup car rental in Florence, drive to Siena, stay explore Siena, Chianti, maybe day trip to Val d'Orcia () - Try to get 1-2 days of cycling in - 3 nights in Siena
• 9/15-9/18 Lucca
  • Drive to Lucca - stop in San San Gimignano for day on 9/15
  • 9/16, 9/17 - Get some cycling in, hopefully Lucca to Pisa one day
• 9/18-9/20 Volastra? Cinque Terre?
  • Maybe drive to Volastra and check out Cinque Terre - still figuring this out, I know 2 days aren't much!
• 9/20-9/22 Parma
  • Back to Spezia and drive to Parma to break up the drive - 2 nights in Parma, poss check out Modena9
• 9/22-9/25 Bassano del Grappa
  • Drive to BdG (stop on way in Verona) and explore, with day trips to visit Vicenza and Treviso - 3 nights
• 9/25-9/28 Venice
  • 9/25 Drive to Padua and drop the car off; morning exploration of Padua then take the train to Venice
  • 9/28 Early departure

annw

I'd recommend a visit to Ravenna while you are in Bologna. Unesco listed centuries-old mosaics (and modern ones), a bit lest "touristy" despite the sights; a lovely passagiata of locals in the late pm/early eve, with drinks and snacks buffets on the main piazza (Piazza del Popolo) and pedestrianized/bike friendly main drags.

SusanP

As much as I love Ravenna, with only two days in Bologna, you really don't have time to add yet another day trip. In fact, you have very short stays everywhere and then plan to do day trips from each place, leaving you very little time in those places where you're staying. Plus, if some of those day trips are on bikes, it will obviously take you longer to get there and back, leaving little time in your day trip destinations.
You might need to think about cutting something.

KTtravel

I think this is doable (although busy.) However, I would definitely add an extra night to Florence.

yestravel

First, is your objective with this itin to get an overview of these places? That is what you will get with the revised itin. Do you think you will never return to Italy so wanting to see as much as you can?

Definitely visit Ravenna -- its an easy train ride from Bologna though Bologna has easily 2 full days of sightseeing..

"9/10-9/12 Florence
Early train to Florence, stay 2 nights in Florence" " 9/12 10am pickup car rental in Florence," Not nearly enough time for Florence -- there is a lot to see and do in Florence. As I said this amount of time is really only 1 full day.

• 9/18-9/20 Volastra? Cinque Terre?
  • Maybe drive to Volastra and check out Cinque Terre - still figuring this out, I know 2 days aren't much!" -- Driving to CT takes a bit as the roads are narrow and curvy much of the way -- splendid views though. Again you will have driven all those hours and have 1 day to explore CT, doable but seems like a lot of driving for not much return. (I might add I loved road trips and driving which this trip will involve).

• 9/22-9/25 Bassano del Grappa
  • Drive to BdG (stop on way in Verona) and explore, with day trips to visit Vicenza and Treviso - 3 nights" While I didnt love BdG, you are allowing 2 days trips or are you doing both Vicenza and Trevios on the same day which doesnt make much sense as they are in the opposite directions

janisj

That would be too rushed for me -- It looks like you have more time in places than you really do because you list the same days in two different locations and not really counting the travel bits.

What it actually is:


Nights of 9/7-9 Bologna Arrive late in Bologna on 9/7, stay 3 nights

9/10-9/11 Florence Early train to Florence, stay 2 nights in Florence

9/12-9/14 Siena 9 pickup car rental in Florence, drive to Siena, stay explore Siena, Chianti, maybe day trip to Val d'Orcia () - Try to get 1-2 days of cycling in - 3 nights in Siena

9/15-9/17 Lucca Drive to Lucca - stop in San San Gimignano for day on 9/15 Get some cycling in, hopefully Lucca to Pisa one day

9/18-9/19 Volastra? Cinque Terre? Maybe drive to Volastra and check out Cinque Terre - still figuring this out, I know 2 days aren't much!

9/20-9/21 Parma Back to Spezia and drive to Parma to break up the drive - 2 nights in Parma, poss check out Modena

9/22-9/24 Bassano del Grappa. Drive to BdG (stop on way in Verona) and explore, with day trips to visit Vicenza and Treviso - 3 nights

9/25-9/27 Venice Drive to Padua and drop the car off; morning exploration of Padua then take the train to Venice

9/28 Fly home

uktravelover

I think you have too many stops bearing in mind that you can lose half a day switching locations. I would look more closely at your “hubs” and extend your time at those so for example:

4 nights Bologna allows time for jet-lag and include a train trip to Ravenna
6 nights Florence or Fiesole - Bus trip to Siena/San Gimignano; tour around Chianti
3 nights Cinque Terre - stop in Lucca on route
4 nights Verona or Peschiera del Garda - stop in Parma for lunch on route
4 nights Venice or Venice Lido or Treviso- stop in Vicenza on route; train trips to Padua/Treviso/Venice depending on where you stay.

Jean

The travel pace doesn't appeal to me. Three weeks of only 2-3 night stays and the size of tourist crowds everywhere this year... would send me around the bend. But it's your trip. I'll only add a few comments about doing this trip mostly by car.

Other than the 4 days in Tuscany immediately after Florence, I'm not sure I see the point of the car. Every town except San Gimignano and Volastra has train service, and most days you don't have much time (if any) to wander off the itinerary/autostrade for which a car would be needed.

Have you priced the one-way car rental? I did a dummy reservation, and the one-way fee increased the total cost by about 1/3.

Are you familiar with ZTLs (limited traffic zones) established in basically every Italian town of any size? (BTW, the driver of your car will need to have an International Driver's Permit. You may never need to present it, but it is required.)

You'll have to investigate whether Volastra gives you realistic/convenient access to the CT towns you want to visit when you're spending less than 2 days there.

bilboburgler

ah, I was confused, I thought you wanted to cycle in Italy.

If I was doing this I would hire bikes in Bologona and slowly cycle up to Venice, either taking the back by train or paying for the renter to pick them up there (easily done). My main stops along the way would be something like
Ferrara, Rovigo, Montagnana, Monselice, Padova, Venezia but there are lots of little places all over you could stop at including agriturismo.it which would be wonderful. Mestre station where you might link up with a train includes a massive safe bike park.

annhig

As others have said the pace of this trip will mean that you have a limited amount of time to see the places you are staying in. Much better to cut the number of bases and use them as hubs, for example from Bologna spend a day in Ravenna, from Florence you can see Pisa, Siena and Lucca, as well as doing a trip to Chianti, and from Venice you can see Padua and Vicenza. IME limiting your overnights to 3-4 places will actually give you a far richer experience and you will see a lot more than you would if you were moving around so much. Plus you will get to know those places better, discovering your favourite breakfast cafe, the nicest bar for the evening, the best gelateria - where people will start to say hello and you can relax and see a little bit of Italian life, rather than the inside of trains and a car.

uktravelover

Just a thought, if you would really like to do some cycling have you thought about booking a 3-4 nights cycling holiday for part of your trip? A number of companies offer self-guided or guided tours including hotels, meals and your bags are transferred from one hotel to the next. I had a colleague who did several of these and always enjoyed them. Take a look at https://www.cycling-for-softies.co.uk for some insights into what is possible in some of the areas you are planning to visit.

plambers

we recently got back from 3 weeks and based ourselves in bologna for the first week. we loved it and did day trip to Ravenna to see the early Christian mosaics and another to Ferrara which we also loved. We had an international Greeter (look up website) in both locations which was wonderful. Ferrara is very bike friendly too. We also did an Italian Food Days tour from Bologna which we really enjoyed.

Think you may be moving around too much. We loved having our first week with a base and then went to Turin, Langhe Valley (based in La Morra) where everyone bikes. This is wine country and even more beautiful that Tuscany and we have been to both. Then we went to Lake Orta and final night Milan. Just something to consider.

chezcathy

Thanks for the input, I think we'll do Turin area on our next visit! Many more to come, I hope.
All has changed dramatically. No car rentals, just train and bikes (all shorter rides max 3 hours):
Arrive 7 Sept in evening
7- 10 Sept - Bologna (1 day trip to Ravena)
11-12 Sienna (arrive by train; pick up bikes 12th)
BICYCLE TUSCANY:
13 Montepulciano (regional train to Chiusi or Cortona)
14-15 Pienza
16 Montalcino
17 Monteriggioni
18 San Gimignano
19 Siena (Return bikes)
20-23 Florence (train from Siena; 1 day trip to Lucca/Pisa)
24-27 Venice (train from Florence; possible day trip to Treviso, Padua, or other nearby area)
28 Sept fly out early from Venice

Does this look okay? Any recommended tweaks?
Thanks all -- feeling like it's all come together!

Jean

For seeing the sights in the several Tuscan towns, you won't have much time anywhere. I would want the 'extra' night in Siena rather than Pienza. By the time you cycle to Siena, return the bikes, check into your hotel, lunch?, you'll only have a couple of hours to explore Siena. FWIW, I find Siena much more interesting than Pienza, but I'm not sure sightseeing is your priority.

The Montalcino-Monteriggioni ride will likely be 3+ hours, especially if you (try to) skirt around Siena. FYI, Siena has typical rush hour traffic in the morning and afternoon and generally significant traffic around the bottom of the town all day. Depending on where the bike return is located in Siena, I'd consider arriving by train from Poggibonsi just to avoid the traffic.

annhig

It all seems to be coming together nicely though I'm not sure how many nights you have in Bologna for example - do you leave on the morning of the 10th or the 11th? If it's the 11th you should have time for a day trip to Ravenna but if it's the 10th really you don't as it only gives you 2 days in Bologna. And looking at Venice I assume you arrive on the 24th leaving on the 28th, giving you just 3 clear days. Personally I would probably spend all of them in Venice [including visiting some of the islands of the lagoon] but Padua can make a nice excursion by train which are frequent and cheap to get there. If you want to see the Schovegni Chapel you should book in advance. It's very easy to get to, it's about 10 mins walk from the station. St Antony's Basilica, the botanical gardens and the Prato are all worth seeing but it is also just a very nice town to wander around.

Having just bought a business class seat on the Frecciarossa from Bologna to Venice in September for only €25, [super economy plus €2 to make it refundable if I need to cancel or change it] i would recommend looking now for trains from Florence to Venice; looking on my trenitalia app [well worth downloading] I see that there is a Frecciarossa train leaving Florence [look for Firenze on the app] at 11.20 arriving 13.14 in Venice. Business class is only €4 more than standard so at €37 each it's a bargain!

bilboburgler

Montalcino a Monteriggioni

I had a quick look at this this just for interest, the road into Buonconvento is normally pleasant, you want to take the ridge road into Siena a bit of SP136 helps which is normally not too busy and then I think (Do you own research) the SP119 out of Siena.

I tend to check out major section on google street view (luckily Italy allows street view) to get an idea of traffic volumes.

Have you considered a detour and maybe lunch at Abbazia di Monte Oliveto Maggiore. Once one of the four top religious sites for Catholics? Not trying to burden you with too much but....

bvlenci

I don't think Google Street View is a good indicator of traffic volume. They tend to make their rounds at times when there is little traffic.

I would probably skip San Gimignano. September is a very busy month, and when it's busy they turn cars away on the approach road. We parked outside the city and hiked in. It's on a pretty steep hill, so I don't know if you'd want to bike in.