elaine

Hi
Just last week I was saying here that I have a debit card with a Mastercard logo and have found it to work well both for travel and managing personal finances. Those days are OVER!
I wasn't traveling, but last weekend some thief provided my debit card number including the 3-digit authorization code on the back, to charge thousands of dollars on an on-line purchase. I have never lost my card, but have used it for purchases both in-person, by fax, with toll-free numbers, and on-line. If the vendor's (Dell computers) fraud department hadn't noticed such a large order being shipped to an address that was not the cardholder's, and if my bank (Chase) hadn't also been helpful and quick-acting when I called them, a large amount of money would have come out of my checking account plus many of my own pending checks would have bounced. As it was, with a couple of conference phone calls and cooperation between Dell and Chase, this was corrected in minutes over the phone, and on a Saturday. I was very lucky. If I'd been traveling, most aspects of this problem would have been more time consuming and more serious.

By the way, asking for an ATM-only card is often something you have to request; the default card issued otherwise will usually be a debit card with a VISA or MC logo. Unlike debit cards, ATM cards don't give spending "points" but I'll just use the credit card for those.

Travelnut

This is why I've opened a new checking account at a different bank from where I receive paycheck and pay bills. I'll put only the money I plan to use for a trip in the acct and use that Debit card while traveling, so as to minimize any turmoil with my regular bank account.

I do, however, use a Check card for normal/local purchases, and will continue to do so, and just keep a very close eye on my account activity. I hate writing checks and refuse to do it if not the only way to pay. There are ways to commit fraud with paper checks, too - one should never put payments in their own mailbox for the mailman to pick up. Always use a PO box to deposit any envelopes with a check enclosed.

isabel

I totally agree with Elaine. It's never happened to me personally but I know enough people who it has happened to. That's why I also have an account seperate from my regular main account. The main account has just an ATM card and we never use it for anything other than cash from an ATM. I charge everything else (to get the miles, also pay it off each month). But because of the recent thread here about having trouble getting money in Europe without the VISA/MC logo on the card I did open a second account just for travel.

ira

Hi elaine,

Have you used your card as a charge card as well as a debit card?

It sounds as if this was a fradulent charge rather than a debit to your bank account.

Seamus

Ira, that is precisely the issue. A debit card, even though it carries the logo of a credit card company (e.g., Visa, Mastercard)immediately deducts the $ from your account. It is NOT a credit card that one pays off at the end of the month. The logo indicates that the transaction can be processed through the electronic systems of that particular CC company (with the company taking a cut from the merchant - that's why WalMart fought against allowing use of debit cards with a MasterCard logo) but it is still treated as an immediate debit from the user account.

ira

Hi seamus,

Can they do that without a PIN?

Christina

I'm not sure about this because I don't want a debit card and refuse to accept them from my bank, but I think debit cards can be used as credit cards, also, not solely as debits directly from your account. I sort of think that is why there is a VISA/MC logo on them in the first place, otherwise VISA wouldn't really have anything to do with your bank account. I think VISA/MC may handle the transactions somehow, also, and that's why it's their product, but I think I remember my bank saying it could be used as a charge card.

Well, as I've said, I don't want one because I have no desire to ever use a debit card and I never write checks to local merchants, either, so that isn't the issue. For me, it just doesn't make sense to have to keep track of all those debits in my checkbook instead of just writing one check a month for a credit card bill. Also, from a fiscal point of view, it does make more sense to use the credit card's money for a month without paying interest, rather than your own, but that isn't why I do it (and that amount would be minor).

I know some people don't have the fiscal management or discipline or something with credit cards, and I guess that's why they think debit cards are better for them, even though it's the same amount of money you'll have to pay to buy things.

I was just thinking maybe I was being overly cautious about the debit card thing, even though I don't ever want to use a debit card, if it were true ATMs in Europe start not accepting ATM-only cards. I'm still not sure about that issue, though, that sounded strange to me, but I'll find out soon. What I was noticing the other day is that you can use credit cards without a signature or scrutiny, also, as I use them all the time at gas stations. And of course, for online purchases. I think the issue is that the money comes right out of your checking account immediately with a debit card, rather than being purchases that can be disputed between companies' banks for some time period.

jody

ira,
They sure can!

And there was a post not long ago, from Patrick, I think, saying debit cards without the Visa/MC logo were not working whereever he was. I had been planning on getting and additional account and card without the logo but if that is the case , it would be useless .

ira

Well, thanks folks. I learned something.

I knew I had to be careful with the ATM card. Now I will be paranoid.

But how did they get Elaine's card number, including the authorization code on the back, if she didn't give it to someone?

elaine

hi
Long before e-shopping, I once had a problem years ago when someone started charging purchases on a home shopping
network using my credit card number.
It wasn't a debit card, the card had never been stolen, but someone at a vendor's or merchant's venue, probably an employee, had copied down my number and used it.

The same could have occurred in this case, I was using my debit card for everything from groceries to restaurants to hardware to hotels to e-shopping. Anyone along the way could have written down or hacked into the account info, in person, from a fax, from a shopping website.

To agree with the info above, the debit card can be used either for a purchase, like any credit card, or for cash from an atm, but the amount comes out of your checking account immediately (or the amount is "frozen" in your checking account). I find that sometimes I need to supply the PIN (in my grocery store, for example) but often not, in a restaurant or in a clothing store or on-line or at a hotel, etc. PIN or not, the money comes out of my bank account.

In my rush to share my born-again atm-card preaching, I forgot the recent thread about Patrick and perhaps someone else not being able to use an atm-only card in atms in Europe to get cash. So now I have to pay attention again, when I travel in December, what will I need to have? Just when I think I have the "right" answer...

indytravel

So far it sounds like the best plan as mentioned above is to have a separate checking account for ATM/Debit card use only.

jody

I've just about decided that's what I'm going to do. Either that or just bite the monetary bullet and get one of those American Express Travelcards . They have some deal with AARP and the fees aren't as high . I'll have to check further.

I've heard in Europe all of the credit card carriers are going to require a PIN for credit card or ATM transactions. Wish they'd do that here!

1maroc

Just be very careful when using a debit card, or having it on your person for that matter. My husband had his wallet stolen in Barcelona and the nightmare it caused went on for over a year. The big problem was not the credit cards, but the debit card they got their hands on. The clever theives racked up over $3500 in charges to credit cards and the debit card in less than one hour- the time it took to get the cards canceled. The credit card companies- yes he was careless and had more than one with him - refunded all the money with no problems. But when fraudulent activity takes place on a debit card, affidavits are required. The theives knew how to use the card even on a closed account - we ultimately had to close our checking account and open another one to change the linked number - but charges kept coming on through for over a year. I had to vigilantly check the account daily for charges for a long time. And word to the wise - if your wallet gets stolen, IMMEDIATELY go to the police to report the theft. Our credit card companies needed the report information. Plus, my husband's driver's license was mailed back to us from the US Consulate in Barcelona 3 months later based on the report. The other important thing is to report the theft to the credit reporting companies in the USA as soon as you can. Debit cards have given us access to cash all over the world, and for that we are grateful. We live foreign and I use my debit card at the atms for all my spending money as the banking here is rather of suspect so I just assume keep my $ in the US, but it never leaves my hand and I usually keep it locked up when I am not in need of it, no matter where I am.

sundowner

My debit card has the VISA logo on it and when I received the card it had a sticker with the phone number to call to activate the card. I spoke to the bank about the activation and I was told you don't have to call and activate it to use as a debit card. The only reason to activate the card is to use it as a check card. I didn't want a check card because they don't require a PIN and are too easy for a thief to use. I just pulled off the sticker and threw it away and keep the card as a debit card only.

Underhill

I just checked with our bank and was told that the ATM-only cards will work fine in Europe but that access will be restricted to checking only.

elle

I have had this happen to me and again, it was a vigilant person in the fraud department at my bank who caught it.

I hadn't been traveling or made any online or phone purchases, so the only thing we could trace it back to was a purchase that I made at a place that still used imprints and carbons. I had grown out of the habit of asking for my carbons and so I must have left them behind.

The one good thing is that the cardholder cannot be held responsible for fradulent withdrawals and charges over $50. Not that it's much comfort when you're traveling and you check your account to see that there's a big sum missing.

Be ever vigilant. . .

elaine

my thought about opening a separate account for only expenses while traveling, is to wonder how much to put it it. If I budget, say, $2000 strictly for cash withdrawals during a trip and put that amount in the special account, what happens if some emergency occurs and I need a last minute new air ticket, or I'm injured and need some special arrangement, or I lose my credit card and need to withdraw a lot of extra cash to pay my hotel bill? I wouldn't have enough cash available in that special account and couldn't even transfer in any from savings in the other bank.

111op

But elaine, you could bring your other card along as a backup. If something really happens (of course this won't happen, but if it does....) you could use the backup instead.

111op

By the way, is there a limit for the withdrawal amount for ATM cards that double up as debit/credit cards?

elaine

forgot to ask 1maroc:

How do I notify credit reporting companies?

When I asked Dell computers if I should report this incident to the police, she said I could but probably it would just be filed, since the crime was attempted, but was foiled, and I wasn't actually out any money. So I guess attempted fraud doesn't get police attention.