flanneruk

Still not sure if it's all just sentimental nonsense...

But it takes up less space than the bendy things, won't spontaneously combust, won't hang round at bus stops while people fumble for the fare, lets you get on and off at traffic lights again, it'll hit the streets in 2012...

...and it looks nice:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11734064

hetismij

Looks good! Provides employment too since it needs a conductor again.

I see only positives with it.

PatrickLondon

>>lets you get on and off at traffic lights again<<

only if there's a conductor on board. And how likely is that?

flanneruk

"Provides employment too"

Well, were that true - in a city that needs to import its bus conductors from abroad - it would be a drawback: the last thing we need right now is an even costlier bus service.

But I wonder if it is. No-one's ever convincingly proved that one-man buses in a city as crowded as London actually save money: even though now close to 100% of passengers use cards, the buses still hang around forever at every central stop while cards are checked - meaning slower traffic, especially slower buses (because ALL the buses behind have to stop) and therefore more buses are needed to move the same number of people.

There's a good reason queues at Tesco are shorter than in state-operated post offices. Tesco add checkout staff because more staff mean they sell more food.

Sometimes, adding staff can be cost-effective: buses in English city centres might be an example of this.

hetismij

London has imported it's bus conductors for as long as I can remember.

It says it will have conductors in the article.

Maybe now the government are getting tough on benefits people might be more inclined to take such jobs.
Oh hang on - I think that was a pig just flying by .

xyz123

I'm sorry and maybe I'm a minority of one, but given modern traffic conditions in London (and many other places), having an open platform is very unsafe for a variety of reasons. I remember vividly reading of that Scandanavian woman arriving in London who was on the platform when some piece of slime grabbed at her pocketbook and she fell out under the wheels meeting a most gruesome demise. It is nostalgic and all that but sometimes you have to bow to modern conditions.

Also will there be a conductor or will there be an oyster touchpad or whatever? Yes the new non routematers are ugly but they still have double decks and I still can hang out upstairs and watch the world go by. What advantage is this? And given the dangers I noted above, I just don't feel it necessary. Or am I missing something?

hetismij

How could she fall off the platform under the bus wheels? The wheels are way ahead of the platform and always have been.

As I said there is a conductor on board if you read the article.

No one will make you ride one xyz123 so I wouldn't worry too much.

GeoffHamer

One of the problems now with double-decker buses in London is that they are often packed on the lower deck while there are empty seats upstairs. Many people do not want to go upstairs, because they're old, carrying shopping bags or small children, or because they're making only a short journey.
Any conductors on these new buses will have nothing to do because nearly everyone has a pass or uses an Oyster Card. I don't know of any other city anywhere in Europe where buses have conductors.
The article doesn't say how much these buses will cost, but it will surely be a lot more that the standard designs used in other British towns and cities.

flanneruk

"given the dangers I noted above, I just don't feel it necessary"

What dangers? One Swede, however sad her end, isn't an argument: it's an anecdote. Hundreds of millions of us have been jumping on and off buses for nearly 200 years - and with bendy buses' appalling record of self-combustion, safety is the rottenest argument imaginable for keeping those lumbering, space-hogging, useless foreign toys.

Enclosed one-man buses in London have been one of those spurious improvements that look as if they work on paper but make things worse in reality.

flanneruk

"it will surely be a lot more that the standard designs used in other British towns and cities."

The problem with one man buses isn't unique to London. In Oxford, there's exactly the same problem as on London's main bus-dominated streets: even with virtually 100% use of cards, the time it takes to accept passengers at busy stops is immense - and freezes all traffic activity hundreds of yards behind. In both cities there are mile-long journeys I regularly take, with buses about every 5 mins. It's now almost always quicker to walk.

It's probably rare outside Britain because in Rome, for example, buses just aren't used as much. But the day-round mess along Oxford St, or in Oxford's Queen St, is entirely the result of one-man operation. Paradoxically, in a number of British city centres traffic congestion is almost entirely produced by buses.

And I've never seen an empty upstairs/crowded downstairs. In the centres, they're both crowded.

Tulips

I was surprised to ride on a routemaster with platform last week, from Piccadilly to Knightsbridge. The bus had a conductor who checked oyster cards and tickets. I thought they weren't around anymore. And people did jump off at traffic lights.

Dukey1

"those lumbering, space-hogging, useless foreign toys"

You are beginning to sound like a gullible xenophobic American more and more every day

GeoffHamer

"It's probably rare outside Britain because in Rome, for example, buses just aren't used as much."

Bus conductors are not just rare outside Britain: they don't exist outside Britain. If you catch a bus in cities from Lisboa to Gdansk, from Thessaloniki to Göteborg, there will be a driver and no conductor.

"And I've never seen an empty upstairs/crowded downstairs."

Then you probably haven't travelled recently on a bus in the suburbs of London.

flanneruk

"Then you probably haven't travelled recently on a bus in the suburbs of London."

Of course I haven't. Why would I want to? What are cars and tubes for?

But anyone who believes that double-deckers "are often packed on the lower deck while there are empty seats upstairs." clearly hasn't been on a bus in any English city centre.

We don't have a serious bus-caused congestion problem in the suburbs. Which is probably why suburbanites like Livingstone have foisted suburban buses onto the centre and Boris (who's probably only ever been to the suburbs on the roads to Eton, Oxford, the airports and his chums' country houses) is trying to get rid of them.

And I've never seen any bus-caused congestion in Lisbon, Danzig (OK: we DO call it Gdansk these days), Thessalonica or Gothenburg either. In fact, apart from a few bits of Lisbon at rush hours, I've never seen any congestion in any of them. Britain's bizarre state of urban bus-choking is almost unique to British and Irish (well: Dublin)city centres.

PatrickLondon

>>But anyone who believes that double-deckers "are often packed on the lower deck while there are empty seats upstairs." clearly hasn't been on a bus in any English city centre.<<

There's a short answer to that. They're round, and they bounce.

Certainly more often than not, this is exactly true of the buses I use in the rush hours, even though TfL have now given the drivers a recorded message to tell people there are seats upstairs (which no more than one or two respond to). I used to lean over the rail upstairs to tell people there was room upstairs but got so used to being stared at as though I was out of my mind ("Upstairs? Moi?") that I just gave up. Let them stew in their own discomfort, say I.

alihutch

New Routemaster? Fantatic!

flygirl

I prefer the upstairs. You get a great view while traveling.

PalenQ

one has to think flanner has stock in this new Routemaster thing??????? does not pass the smell test.

stokebailey

I think it's beautiful and am proud of Boris Johnson for making good on his campaign promise. It's one reason I (would have if I were a citizen there but am not) voted for him.

stokebailey

We always head straight for the stairs.