ellenem

I disagree about renting a car for the Tuscany portion of your trip. Tuscany is the perfect place to rent a car for a few days. There are trains and buses that serve some areas, but if you dream is to explore country roads and small hill towns, then a car is a must.

As others have said, you do NOT want a car when you are in Florence, since there are Zona a Traffico Limitato - Limited Traffic Zones - (and associated fines) for non-residents to drive in the center of the city. Read about the ZTL which is in many Italian cities here:

http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/drivin...s_speeding.htm

If you plan to visit Florence and stay overnight, then rent your car when you are ready to leave to tour Tuscany.

Or if you plan to stay in Tuscany and just visit Florence for a day, then rent the car in Venice and drive all the way to your Tuscany location. Take the closest train from your Tuscany location to Florence for the day, avoiding the traffic issues.

Meihan83

ellenem : we plan to stay (sleep) in florence 3 nights, but at the day we ll be out exploring the region. maybe we ll only spend half day exploring florence itself.. we r more interested in the villages in the region. would it be better if we just look for a hotel outside florence to stay? we dont want to change hotels as it will waste time.

Continental_Drifter

Meihan, You are asking seasoned travelers for their learned advice and they are trying to assist you. We're not saying that you've taken short cuts or are not doing any research. We're suggesting that you consider all of your options before asking a chef, "which is the salt and which is the sugar?"

You've been given very good suggestions at sourcing what you need. In the other post, someone suggested you start with Rick Steves' train schedule. There is one on his sight that shows you the distances and times for travel between cities.

On Karen Brown's website, there is an itinerary builder.

But in both cases, you have to review your train schedules. Check Eurail and see what is available there. It will give the flexibility to use your pass for all trains at all times in the event you miss a train. You can simply get on the next one. We've taken our entire family on a single pass to most of the places you've mentioned.

There are itineraries such as yours. Most start in London, Paris, Rome or Amsterdam. It may not be precisely in the order you are seeking, but it's there. If you build your trip around one of those itineraries, then you should do well.

I just located a 29 day trip to most of your trip. It's on Bootsnall. http://adventures.bootsnall.com/trip...rds=&x=18&y=16

Think a little out of the box. Take a 21 day package tour that does all of your stops, but not Ireland and Scotland. Ending in London will give you 6 days or so to complete the rest of the trip on your own.

Just as an example, train stations can be very confusing. Last November, we arrived in Paris rather late at Gare du Nord. We were quite surprised to find most of the exits locked off and even though our French is acceptable, we actually had difficulty locating the open exit that night. It was very strange since we'd been there so many times before. Had we needed to make a certain train, we would have missed it. This is why I'd suggest a planned tour if at all possible, or the flexibility of a Eurail pass.

There are experts on this board. They are more than willing to assist and can answer great specific questions. I've been going to Europe since my first school trip when I was 13. Half the fun of the trip is the research and the planning.

I'd love to help more if we can. What is your budget per person for this 28 day trip?

portiaperu

Renting a car to tour Tuscany makes perfect sense, renting a car and staying in Florence doesn't make sense to me. I read your itinerary as having three days IN Florence. Are you planning a one day tour of Tuscany? Two days? You might want to stay outside Florence to make touring the region easier and visit Florence for one day of the three you have set aside for the Tuscany region.

I hope I'm not repeating advice - your threads are getting attention!

Meihan83

Mom : its not that we loathe the tour or what, but we decided to have this trip by ourselves. i calculated the budget all excluding ticket home - amsterdam (in USD),
estimated hotel : 1500
for meals : 1000
train & airplane tickets in europe : 850
entrance tickets, day trip tour, city transport etc etc : 700
so i m looking around USD 4100 spent for 28 days in europe Per Person.
is it enough / reasonable?

Meihan83

portiaperu : we ll be out of florence most of the time as i mentioned before.. so it ll be better to pick a hotel outside florence ? yes ? (well this is just the kind of insights we need!)

suze

You need to do the math:

For a 27 day trip, 1500 USD for hotel, translate that into Euro and it's only 42.76 per person per night for a place to sleep. That's a VERY low budget.

Same for food, you come up with only 28.48 euro per day per person for all meals. That's a VERY low budget.

Meihan83

Mom : yes i know the train part will be tricky!! thats why i need help... about the eurail, i m hesitate to buy the pass, coz some they dont have some of the routes we want to go.
eg : koeln interlaken.. i can get direct from bahn, but i cant when i search in eurail they dont have that route, or maybe i have to change trains.
eg : can anyone explain this ? i just check in the bahn website.. koeln - interlaken 23:46 - 08:57.. Euro 43 --- what i m confused.. how can i upgrade to sleeper/couchette? what class is this euro 43? is it only seat?

ellenem

"we ll be out of florence most of the time as i mentioned before.. so it ll be better to pick a hotel outside florence ? yes ?"

YES! My original point exactly. Since I understand that there are four people in your traveling group, that's why I suggested that when you leave Venice, you go by car (saving the Venice-Florence train ticket for four people) and drive to your Tuscan location since more of your interests are outside Florence. You do not want to drive in and out of Florence every day.

janisj

The rest of your new plan is much better than what you started w/

<B>BUT -- <red>the new Ireland/Scotland parts are absolutely impossible/ridiculous.</B></red> Sorry - bit I had to say it.

Someone above said it well - I'll paraphrase "1 day around Ireland" and "1 day around Scotland" is like saying "1 day around California" or "1 day around Japan".

Don't try to squeeze in Ireland and Scotland (and this is from someone who's favorite place on Earth is in Scotland)

Add those few days to other stops along your itinerary.

janisj

>>Sorry - <u>but</u> I had to say it.<<

Meihan83

suze : its per person, but remember we r couples, +we have some nights on the train, so that translate around90 euro per night / room.. guess we can get decent backpaker hotel or 3 star with that rate?
my firend search the hotels rate n he said the budget is still ok.
for meals : we get breakfast from the hotel, so that28 euro is for lucnh n dinner.
what do u think? still very low? please give us advice

Meihan83

ellenem : NOTED Thanksss venice - florence by car, stay outside florence

scatcat

If you have no interest in Florence, then I wouldn't stay there. You can probably find cheaper hotels elsewhere.

As far as purchasing a couchette-yes there is an additional charge. Click on "check availability". You will need to purchase these tickets about 90 days in advance. They usually sell out fast. What month are you traveling and are you getting railpasses? I assume you checked from Koeln to Zurich for the night train. I didn't find a night train that does that route into Interlaken.

PalenQ

With that much rail travel of course you should consider a railpass of some kind - perhaps the 5 country Eurail Select Saverpass (unless going solo - Saverpass is for 2 or more folks traveling together on one pass - two names on one pass - or a straight up Eurail Global Pass - the more days on a Select pass the closer it comes to the Global Pass price and then you could use it in Ireland and to go from Dublin to Belfast to port for ship to Scotland.

Like i probably posted on your last thread i always spotlight these info-laden sites to plan a European rail trip - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com - railpasses are always supposed to be sold at the same price but mailing and handling fees can be added on so look at the bottom line. Passes are not generally sold in Europe - at least Eurailpasses. If you are more than 2 traveling together then there is a special on to at least the end of July that if you buy two three-country - five day Eurail Select Saverpasses you get one free - but need to have three folks traveling - just thought i'd add if that were the (unlikely) case.

There it is..
i would like some advice on the transportation between the cities>

I have traveled on European trains and with passes for decades having literally used hundreds of passes - i will further comment as to my experience to this question in future posts.

Bon Voyage and i love your itinerary - which some prescriptive Fodorites will say is way too rushed - that you should spend three weeks in every town, etc - but it is the type of itinerary that i have often done - in fact seems relaxed to me.

Meihan83

scatcat : this is from the bahn website.. koeln - interlaken 23:46 - 08:57.. Euro 43 it doesnt say any stopover so i guess its direct?

cheryllj

The idea of spending one day "around Ireland" and one day "around Scotland" is ridiculous. The rest of your itinerary looks doable.

I would drop Ireland and Scotland completely, and add extra days in Rome, Paris, and London. But at the very least, drop Ireland. From Paris, fly to Edinburgh and spend 2-3 days in Edinburgh and the surrounding area. Then go to London. I think it's really pushing your budget already, but you can't squeeze both Ireland and Scotland into your plan b/c you don't have the time or money to do both.

ellenem

What date are you using for this train so we can be sure to find the same one?

suze

Yes I think 28 euro is very low for lunch & dinner both. Certainly it CAN be done, with a combination of street food (bakeries, crepes, hot dogs, etc.) picnics from the grocery store (sandwiches, fruit, etc.) and casual eateries. Especially if you don't drink alcohol or soda, which can get expensive. But you won't be eating sit-down meals in nice restaurants at that price point.

suze

You subtracted the nights you will be on an overnight train from the hotel budget BUT you still need to pay a supplement in addition to your train ticket if you're planning on a sleeping arrangements (either a couchette or private compartment). That runs about the same price as a budget hotel room.