Meihan83

Heres my Fixed Itinery (please dont "hush" it)

Day 1 : Home - Amsterdam
Day 2 : Amsterdam
Day 3 : Amsterdam - Cologne - Interlaken (by train depart amsterdam 10.30, arrive Koln around 13.00, sightseeing, around 22.00 taking night train to Interlaken)
Day 4 : Interlaken
Day 5 : Interlaken
Day 6 : Interlaken - Venice (by train depart interlaken early around 08.00 expect to arrive at Venice around 15.00)
Day 7 : Venice
Day 8 : Venice - FLorence (by train depart venice around 11,00 expect to arrive at Florence around 14.00) In florence we plan to rent car
Day 9 : Florence
Day 10 : Florence
Day 11 : Florence - Rome (by train depart florence around 10.00 arrive rome around 14.00)
Day 12 : Rome
Day 13 : Rome
Day 14 : Rome - Barcelona (by plane 12.20 - 14.00)
Day 15 : Barcelona
Day 16 : Barcelona
Day 17 : Barcelona - Lourdes - Paris (by train depart barcelona early mornig, stop over @lourdes, n getting night train to Paris)
Day 18 : Paris
Day 19 : Paris
Day 20 : Paris - Dublin / Shannon (by plane)
Day 21 : Around Ireland
Day 22 : Ireland - Scotland (plane / train / ??)
Day 23 : Around Scotland
Day 24 : Scotland - London (plane / train/??)
Day 25 : London
Day 26 : London
Day 27 : London - Amsterdam - Home

There it is..
i would like some advice on the transportation between the cities
Thanks again in advance...

Dukey

I would NOT rent a car while I was IN Florence...too much trouble and money to fuel it, park it, etc., not to mention the many restricted areas in which you cvannot even DRIVE it.

Now, OTOH, if you are planning to rent the car and then immediately LEAVE the city that's another matter..and even if you are, whether or not you need a car is going to be a function of where you plan to drive it.

I am really sorry if this disrupts your itinerary but that's my honest advice based on previous experience.

Continental_Drifter

Well, we don't want to "hush" your itinerary, so you may not get the responses you're seeking. It looks as though you've added seven days and added the entire UK. Is it your goal to have no more than two nights in one city? If so, there are some package tours, that although hectic, will accomodate this goal and will take care of your biggest challenge with this itinerary - the travel and transfers between cities.

I don't want to discourage you, but you guys are spending an enormous amount of time just traveling between cities.

Check some other postings - there is one that discusses the distances "around Ireland" and "around Scotland."

If you simply want to be able to say that you've "done Europe," and that's your goal in this trip, I suppose you could do that.

In order to give you the best advice, tell us more about what you enjoy doing at home. If you like great food, cafes and museums, you will not be able to enjoy those things on this trip.

Meihan83

Dukey : we wont be driving INSIDE florence, but we ll be driving around to pisa, see the tuscan villages, vine yards visit the factory outlet.
will that be ok? is there any strict restriction in the region?

bardo1

Honestly - you should cut and paste the above (but first fill in for Day 22 and Day 24 exactly which town you are leaving/arriving from in Ireland and Scotland - you can't just say I need a train/ferry ticket from Ireland to Scotland) and send it to a travel agent. Tell them to compare rail pass vs. no rail pass overall prices as well. You should also pay to have all the tickets (and maybe passes) for your group sent to you in the US.

cls2paris

I do most of my train research on the German rail site. It will show trains from all over Europe and the UK. There are probably regional trains from countries other than Germany that are not listed but it does give you a good idea of the frequency of trains for your route, and the length of travel. There is some pricing but it may be for intra-Germany travel only. It's a great resource for planning. I have never bought tickets online, I usually buy them when I get there.

For example, I just plugged in Venice (Venezia) to Florence on a random day and there's a train ride that lasts 1 hr. 51 min and another that is 2 hr. 51 minutes.

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml

Another great resource is www.ricksteves.com there is a lot of information about train travel. You might want to check into a rail pass, I'm not sure if it will save you money or not but it might.

Depending on where you are intending to arrive in Scotland, you may want to look into one of the ferry lines that in Dublin. There is no train service between Ireland n Scotland.

Continental_Drifter

<< There is no train service between Ireland n Scotland. >>

LOLOLOL

Research/Googling needs done....

Meihan83

mom : hi again mom.. yea i know this itinery seems crazy.. but we r doing it. Well we love good foods, museums, sceneries, photography, n as much as we want to spend time enjoying those, we know by doing this we need to let go the word "relaxed" and "enjoy" in our trip.

Dukey

Pisa is easily reached by rail from Florence; trains used to run hourly and the trip took an hour one way. I agree that you'll need a car for the other countryside and yes, you could drive over to Pisa, too....I'm renting a car myself in Florence in a couple of weeks to see the countryside so that part of your plan makes sense to me.

I do not necessarily agree that you are spending a lot of time getting from place to place as in TOO MUCH TIME...if you want to see all these places then you have to travel TO and FROM them and that takes time regardless of the mode of travel.

As to Lourdes...wait long enough and you'll get PLENTY of feedback about going there (I've been twice and that really cemented the concept of "stupid Dukey" in a lot of minds here) but please be aware of what you are going to encounter there..other than in the grotto area itself the town, especially during the tourist season is going to be MOBBED and as with many religious pilgrimage sites, people have figured out there is money to be made by selling things to the pilgrims and anybody else who shows up (they actually do the same thing when they put up HOTELS in places people travel to but that activity draws much less condemnation for some reason).

The grotto area itself is IMO interesting if for no other reason than historical interest; the many folks who come there for religious reasons and hoping for a cure can be sobering to see..some would say even sad and pathetic...not to mention the MANY shops selling every possible religious item (often cheaply constructed) including those water bottles in the shape of Our Lady (the grotto spring water is still free for the taking I believe).

I would agree that you are embarking on quite a varied journey, seeing a lot of things, etc., but my own five-week trip to what seemed like "all over the map" a few years ago I wouldn't have given up for anything or anyONE.

Meihan83

bardo1 : yes bardo i m working on it.. still deciding which city to stay at ireland n scotland...
mom : hahaha really.. yea i havent search trains in scotland / ireland.. still working on the europe side first.
cls2paris : yea i ve checked those websites too

duh confused :
i just check in the bahn website.. koeln - interlaken 23:46 - 08:57.. Euro 43 --- what i m confused.. how can i upgrade to sleeper/couchette? what class is this euro 43? is it only seat?

portiaperu

I think the idea of checking out a tour for the locations you are interested in a good starting point if only to determine if the revised itinerary is workable. Certain tours focus on moving travelers through many locations with maximum efficiency. If you find something similar to your planned itinerary you will know it is possible. If you don't find an itinerary that moves along at this pace I believe it is telling you something, and you'll be able to make a few adjustments to your plans.

I would caution against renting a car for a short segment of your trip since it can be time consuming to travel to a rental car office, challenging to navigate your way into/out of many cities, and difficult to find parking anywhere near city centers. When we've rented cars we typically park outside the city center and walk a distance - there are usually restrictions (signage to be learned) on where you are able to drive and park - another topic to research (!)

I'm hoping you get some good advice on trains that will help you refine your itinerary.

Take care.

ellenem

In my opinion, this itinerary is great improvement over your first one. I agree with other that to spend so short an amount of time in Ireland and Scotland hardly seems worth the effort and expense to get there.

Also, why return to Amsterdam to fly home? Have you checked flights returning from London? Have you already purchased your airline tickets? If not, use the "multi-city" function at airline websites to find ticket for departure home-Amsterdam and London-home. It usually doesn't cost more, or that much more, to book the tickets this way, especially when you add in the extra cost and time to return to Amsterdam to return home.

kfusto

You are asking some really basic train questions which can all be answered by researching the sites already provided on this and your other thread.

If you need someone to do this part of the planning for you then the suggestion above to send it to a travel agent is a good one. If you are going to be a do it your selfer you definitely need to spend a good bit of times on the sites provided which give excellent information on the trains in Europe.

It does require effort on your part - which quite honestly it looks like you are doing your best to avoid - to do this but considering you will very likely have to make changes along the way with such a daunting itinerary, it would be best to learn your way around the websites sooner rather than later.

You are asking others to figure out specifics for you instead of utilizing the resources you have been given since you started your other thread.

My first Google attempt at "How to plan train travel in Europe" came up with:

http://goeurope.about.com/od/traintr..._in_Europe.htm

And this one, which Palenque gave you early on:

http://www.seat61.com/Europe.htm

LJ

I don't want to 'hush' this itinerary. I don't want to diminish your fun in Europe/UK. I hope you have a fabulous time doing all those things you listed....but the part you have added in today's posting is not really practical at all. This is for 5 weeks from now, right?

If we assume that you are from North America, then would you accept, not a judgemnet, so much as a comparison? The UK portion of your trip as you have outlined it here is a little like saying "go to the US, look around a couple of days, then go to Canada for the day."

Someone else suggested the package tours that take the sting and some of the expense out of traveling between major European cities. Speaking as one who led groups of enthusiastic young people on tours of Italy alone that took 2 weeks and at that often exhausted all concerned, you REALLY should look at how those tours are organized for pointers on how to manage your own time.

Even if you don't like the idea of taking one of those 'See Europe's Great Cities in 2 Weeks" or 'UK in 7 days' marathons, at least looking at the agendas will give you some idea of the hassles you are giving yourselves.

You sound like a really sincere person who is planning for others, so I hope it all works out!

kfusto

I wanted to add this to make my point but hit Submit too soon:

""Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man HOW to fish and he can feed himself for the rest of his life.""

Very appropriate here.

Meihan83

portia : "If you find something similar to your planned itinerary you will know it is possible. If you don't find an itinerary that moves along at this pace I believe it is telling you something, and you'll be able to make a few adjustments to your plans." we think the opposite : theres no tours offered similar to our itinery, thats why we decided to make our own itinery. thanks for the car rent insights, i ll let my husband know. can u advice what r the options to go around tuscan other than renting car?

Dukey : thanks for the Lourdes info!!

Meihan83

kfusto : "It does require effort on your part" ask my husband how long i ve been searching on the net for this trainy things. i ve been infront of the computer all day long today. dont suggest that i m lazy n i dont want to do all the reasrch, coz i m not like that. Its just its my first time to Europe, i m new to this thing n european rail is confusing as theres so many of them. u get what i mean? i want to save some cost, so i wnt to booked it online by myself. so please stop saying i m lazy n blabla bla.. i simple dont understand or have little knowledge about this europe train. please enlight me

suze

Yes, this is a HUGE improvement over the 1st itinerary. If you take back out Ireland & Scotland, then I think you'd have a decent, do-able plan.

Meihan83

LJ : thanks LJ, we r from Indonesia n its not just me planing..
its all of us. i m in charge of transportation here, as my husband is planing for the day trips / what to see /where to go in each cities , n my frinds taking care of the hotels n foods

jamikins

I'm not trying to hush - its your trip, do as you like

BUT - flying to shannon, and spending a day 'around Ireland' (likewise a day around scotland) is just a waste of your precious time and money!!! Please reconsider this portion and either pick 1 of the 2 or better yet spend the entire time in London!

Have fun, and please write a trip report...