I'm planning a trip to the Netherlands, Belgium, and the Cologne/Rhine area of Germany. Flying into Amsterdam and out of Frankfurt. 12 nights on the ground. We will travel by public transport, mainly train. We're interested in the history and the culture as well as must see landmarks and somewhat interested in the major works of art (we have no expertise) and regional foods (okay, mainly Belgian chocolate and pommes frites) of these areas. Prefer bases with ample restaurant choices and safe, walkable centers. We are not particularly interested in nightlife or visiting coffeehouses. We'll do day trips from our bases, where we'll spend 3-4 days each.
Which would you recommend?
Delft or Leiden in the Netherlands
Gent or Brugge in Belgium
Cologne or ??? in Germany

Thanks in advance for any insights.

Cologne part of Rhine is blah - rather industrial - go to some neat town in Rhine Gorge between Koblenz and Bingen and take D-D few-hour cruises thru the gorgeous gorge. Cologne nice large city but little old-world atmosphere - I'd suggest a few-hour stop en route from Dutch base to the Rhine Gorge - train station right next to station and luggage storage.

Are you going to be visiting Amsterdam? There was a thread exactly on where to base in those two countries recently that talked about Gent v Bruges and Dutch bases - anyway book Amsterdam or Utrecht train to Cologne online yourselves at www.bahn.de/en - snatch discounted tickets if do so early enough. Cologne - Rhine Gorge area may come under the Lander Tickets or regional tickets where up to five or so can travel on regional trains and urban transports all day for a pittance. Rhine Gorge is a short train ride from Frankfurt Airport. www.seat61.com has oodles on great advice on booking own discounted tickets online (Lander Tickets buy at station.) General train info - BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.

You'll have all different opinions on best bases - many feel Bruges is too mobbed with tourists but at night when they are gone it becomes surrealistically beautiful.

I'd base myself for good public transport rather than sites and I'd look at two centres, so one in Holland and one in Germany. So Utrecht would be my choice in the Netherlands while Germany is so big I'd need to think a bit more Koblenz might be a good choice.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Yes, I was thinking to add Utrecht to the mix for Netherlands. Really good train connections, but Leiden seemed very well connected too. And surprisingly, little Delft wasn't bad. Which is "quainter"? Which has a nicer center with smaller hotels and lots of restaurants?

PalenQ, your comments seem to suggest we might not need a railpass. There is the Benelux-Germany pass, but maybe it's not cost effective? There would be a short train trip almost everyday. It's tempting just because of the convenience, but I looked at First Class and it was very pricey.

Bilboburger, wouldn't we need a base in Belgium too? I'd like to keep the day trips within 90 minutes or so.

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to see all of Germany this trip, only that area near Cologne or so. It's mainly a Netherlands/Belgium trip as we've been to Germany (Bavaria/Berlin) before. We could pick a base and day trip to Cologne for the cathedral. I'll look at the Rhine Gorge/Koblenz.

Maybe Benelux Railpass but not Germany-Benelux one for sure and even other one - check prices for trains at national rail web sites and in Germany use the regional tickets and booking long-distance trains early can mean really cheap fares - like 29 euros Utrecht to Cologne, etc. Hard to see how any railpass may work - discounted tickets come in first class too as do regional passes in Germany I think.

Well southern Beligium, which is very pretty country is mainly off the train system, while you can treat northern Beligum as southern south Netherlands. No one in Europe really cares where the borders are except for tax purposes and linguistic purposes (for instance all the Dutch millionaires live in northern Belgium).

Train journeys within NL are so short that it really doesn't matter where you base yourself: within an hour, you'll be anywhere you want to be. However, Utrecht is very well placed to explore eastward: the Hanseatic cities along the IJssel river, or Arnhem and Nijmegen. Even so, you'll be able to reach Delft within an hour and the same goes for Leiden or Gouda, or Rotterdam.

In Europe all centers of cities are safe, or the whole city is to be avoided, but I know none of those.
In Germany, some beautiful places that are easily accessible by train are Aachen, very close to dutch and belgian borders, Koeln is more interesting than Palenq suggests it is, and I like cities like Duisburg, or even Dusseldorf or Hanover (but only a limited center of the city, so to be treated as a daytrip). When young, I loved to go to Munster, but could not know if easily accesible. Further away Muenchen is a must.

We went to Amsterdam whern young and don't feel compelled to go back, as prices of hotles are horrendous, food is ok but not that elaborate (not even the Indonesian rijsttable is exciting for us) and beer is just not good compared to belgian beer or northern France beers (we have recently virtually everyday a new beer made by a 'microbrasserie' with a lot of taste comapred to industrial liquid).

Very close to Belgium, Lille is a gem that I highly recommend. The coast is also spectacular but for this you need a car (cap blanc nez and cap gris nez are superb).

Koeln is more interesting than Palenq suggests it is>

Yes it is but for someone seeking more old-world Europe on limited time as Americans are want to do most would more enjoy the Rhine area, Mosel Valley - towns like Cochem. But having spent weeks collectively in Cologne in past on business and literally running around every inch of it yes it is a very neat city in many ways but again not what most Americans want on first time to Europe. Locals and foreign tourists often have different views on things. Munich though is a delightful town - not totally blitzed in WW2 I think and thus retaining a more old-world look.

You do not need a rail pass for such a trip. Check with the seat61 site linked to previously for how to get point-to-point tickets for your major travel legs (like Delft - Gent - Rhine area.)

German cities that were obliterated in WW II (like Cologne) aren't your best bets for old-world architecture, for sure. Cologne is not well situated at all for access to the major Rhine/Mosel castles, for river cruises, or for old-world towns. The best base town for your stated needs is probably Boppard - easy to walk there, lots of hotels and restaurants, very scenic waterfront, good train connections to nearby places and well situated for access to all three major castles - Rheinfels (St. Goar) Marksburg (Braubach) and Burg Eltz (near Moselkern.)


That isn't to say that Cologne is worthless. From Gent you can make a stopover by train of several hours on your way to Boppard. Use the storage facility at the station for your bags. The grand Cologne Cathedral is right next door to the station. and other interesting sights are nearby.

a few hours in Cologne to see world-famous Gothic cathedral and move on to more dreamy pastures like Boppard or any town in Rhine Gorge area or Mosel Valley - Cochem there is a picture-postcard place on main train line - many think Mosel is nicer than Rhine but without car Rhine is much better.

Does Cologne have a perfume museum?

PalenQ you are really an incredibly annoying poster with your 70000 posts which clearly spell out that you have to say something about everything and therefore nothing at all. But when you are spreading wrong info it ceases to be amusing.

First OP asked about "We're interested in the history and the culture as well as must see landmarks and somewhat interested in the major works of art" and was inquiring about transport hubs. There was no word about picturesque small places here. None at all. With these interests a large place makes perfectly sense. Larger cities are usually good transport hubs from where you can visit more picturesque smaller places and they give you something to do (e.g. museums) when it is raining or other bad weather.
For Belgium Ghent is obviously the most central and that's what I used myself. As for Cologne/Rhine area this is indeed an extremely vague question. The Rhine isn't exactly short. So how far is this supposed to go? Until Bonn? Until Koblenz? Or Mainz/Wiesbaden? Considering that OP is as usual cramming too much into too little time there's hardly more time than for a day in Cologne, half a day in Brühl and one day in Bonn plus Königswinter. I don't quite see what the surroundings or any industrial parts have to do with the question, after all OP isn't going to Gelsenkirchen.
Equating Cologne with the cathedral is so stupidly superficial it hurts. Yes it is true, it is not a picturesque old town anymore but its importance is in the three major museums and the twelve Romansque churches which are arguably more important than the cathedral.
Suggesting Cochem as a picturesque small place is really the most ridiculous idea. You are really suggesting a place which has barely any old buildings and whose main church was destroyed in WWII? I understand that Cochem is somehow a transport hub due to its location on the train line along the Mosel but among small towns in Germany it ranks somewhere among the 400th and 500th place.

Lubi, if you can't say anything nice....

bilboburgler this is honestly the most stupid US American saying ever. It literally means not to discuss any difference in opinion and not to contradict nonsense. Not surprising that with such a mentality the gibberish and lies of Trump somehow seemed like just another contribution of ideas on how to run a state.

Lube, welcome to Fodors, you may be right but generally on European Fodors we play nice, not sure whose saying it is though. We try to keep Trump talk to the "lounge", not every American is responsible for the state the states are in.

In the FAQ's, #7, under "Be Open-minded", forum users are told, "...the more points of view the better."

https://www.fodors.com/faq/tips.cfm

I agree. I say bring on both PalenQ's and Lubitsch's travel suggestions. Travel advice suggestions. Travel tips. Travel experiences. Travel priorities.

Not unflattering, pejorative comments about other posters and their suggestions, ideas, experiences, etc. You can share travel ideas without say anything at all nice or nasty about others. And if you do choose the low road, most readers will be inclined see to YOU and YOUR ideas as worthless.

70000 posts about literally every place on earth is simply way too much, that's more than 16 each day. And his advice ignored the interests of the OP, trashed Cologne unfairly and suggested one of the silliest tourist traps in the country. That's too much to swallow.

Well Lubitsch I do post on lots of topics based on 4 decades of European travel as a professional travel writer who has written zillions of articles and researched them on just about every place of touristic interest in Europe - so I do have general and detailed knowledge of many places and I only post on Fodor's. Having led bike tours for years too thru Belgium,Netherlands and Germany - including Cologne along the Rhine to Mosel can say that the stretch of Rhine you describe is OK but not nearly as nice as Rhne Gorge.

Sorry you are offended by a different take than yours - but I try to put myself in shoes of typical American tourists - Cologne as I said above is a nice city but as others have said here but not a place many would like to spend several days in. Please respect opinions of others.

Then feel free to spit it out silently.

Every forum member can see a forum member's post count, calculate posts per day, judge a post's relevance and fairness, and reach his or her own conclusions about others and their ideas - WITHOUT your input or anyone else's. It is condescending to think we cannot do these things on our own, it doesn't strengthen your travel ideas, and it doesn't help the OP or the forum.