I am planning a trip to Italy in September (Milan, Varenna/Como, Venice, Sorrento and Rome) and would like to get your input on the following itinerary:

Day 1: depart USA

Day 2: Milan / Varenna
- arrive in Milan around 3pm
(factor 2 hours to get baggage, out of airport and onto train)
- arrive in Varenna around 6pm (1 hour ride)
- have dinner and settle in for the evening

Day 3: Varenna
- explore Varenna and Bellagio (etc)

Day 4: Varenna
- explore more of area, possible day trip to Milan for some shopping

Day 5: Varenna / Venice
- leave Varenna on train in the late morning and arrive in Venice in the afternoon (4-1/2 hour ride)
- walk around town, have dinner, continue walking and then settle in for the night

Day 6: Venice
- see some sights, explore more

Day 7: Venice
- more sights, some shopping

Day 8: Venice / Naples / Sorrento
- get up early, catch train to Naples by noon
- get to Naples around 7pm, then connect to Sorrento by 8pm
- have dinner and settle in for the night

Day 9: Sorrento
- visit Pompeii and explore Sorrento

Day 10: Sorrento
- explore Amalfi coast

Day 11: Sorrento / Naples / Rome
- check out of hotel
- around 10am, take ferry/hydrofoil with luggage to Capri (check bags in at harbor)
- explore Capri for about 4 hours
- around 3pm, take hydrofoil to Naples (with luggage)
- get to train station
- approx. 4pm, take train to Rome (2 hour ride)
- arrive in Rome around 6pm
- have dinner, go for a walk, settle in, etc.

Day 12: Rome
- explore sights
(some in our group have been to Rome before)

Day 13: Rome
- explore more, some shopping

Day 14: depart Rome or go to Milan
EITHER depart Rome and go home
OR
- check out (Rome) by 11am
- around 12 noon, take a train to Milan (4 hour ride)
- arrive in Milan around 4pm
- do some shopping, take it easy
- check into hotel

Day 15: depart Milan

This is about all the time I have for my vacation and I would very much like to hit all these areas. I am wondering if I have enough time for the sights (i.e. in Sorrento we want to see Pompeii, Capri, Amalfi coast and have time to check out Sorrento) or if I should shorten stays in the other places and extend stays in other places. Right now I have 3 nights at each base location: Varenna, Venice, Sorrento, Rome and possibly one night in Milan the day before flying home.

I don't get much time off from work to travel, so I like to see as much as I can at a reasonable pace. I know a lot of people are going to say an itinerary like mine should go for 3+ weeks, but that's not feasible for me and I don't know when/if I would have more vacation time to travel overseas again in the near future. Any suggestions or feedback?

Also, do you think it would be better for me to fly from Venice to Naples to shave some travel time? I hate to think I'm losing 1 day just to get to Sorrento... also, what about an overnight train? I have gone to Trenitalia's site but I cannot find info on overnight trains. I see one that leaves Venice just after midnight and arrives in Naples around 7am, but it is on the InterCity train, not Eurostar and it doesn't specify overnight or anything about a sleeping car. Which trains offer the overnight "cuccetta" berths?

All help is greatly appreciated!!

I have about 2 minutes to write, but thought you might want to look at www.Ryanair.com You could fly from Venice to Rome in about an hour and the prices are unbelievable! check it out.
Phylly

Hi annimal, I don't know where the intercity trains have sleeping cars or not, probably someone here will.

It is a busy schedule in a way but you have obviously given it a lot of thought and if you feel you and your group up to this trip I am sure you will enjoy it.

One thought, since it is possible for you to extend your trip by one day IF you train to Milan and you thought about extended your trip by one day so you would have an extra day in Rome and than fly home from Rome? I would imagine you would be happy to have an extra day in Rome, there is so much to see and do.

BTW, I have friends in the region of Veneto that always fly from Venice to Naples when they go to Naples versus taking the train. Something I would look into.

PhyllyRain - are my eyes lying to me?!! 0.90 EUR from Venice to Rome plus 20.84 EUR in taxes and fees for a total of 21.74 EUR on Ryanair?!!!

LoveItaly - the bulk of our group has never been to Sorreno but we have been to Rome. I know there is much to see in Rome but I would like to take advantage of being able to further explore places I have never been to like Sorrento and Lake Como/Varenna, but thank you for your suggestion!

Malpensa airport is, under the *best* of circumstances, a one hour bus trip to the Milan train station where you buy a ticket for Varenna. Assuming your flight is on time, you are still being optimistic you will pick up your baggage, find the bus to Milan, arrive and buy a ticket to catch a train two hours later. Just let your hotel know you may be arriving late and not to give away your room.

I wouldn't recommend going back to Milan to shop. If you want to do that, why not stay a night in Milan and catch a train to Varenna the next day?

It's a good idea to fly to Naples. (Is train travel to Naples really only 7 hours? How many times do you have to switch trains? In Bologna? In Rome? Again, if you elect to travel by train, be sure to let your hotel in Sorrento know you may be coming in late. Italian trains haven't been punctual since Mussolini's head was taken off and put on spike. I have never taken an overnight train in Italy because I have never heard anything good about them, especially an IC train.)

Exploring Pompeii is likely to take you all day, but if you cheat Sorrento to do it, don't worry.

Not that I don't trust you, but I assume you've checked the ferry schedules to Capri and Napoli for September. Even if your assumptions about ferries are correrct, the ferry departure point is on the opposite side of Naples from the train station -- and if you haven't heard yet, traffic in Naples is INSANE. You are not likely to be on 4pm train. Advise the hotel in Rome to hold your room.

You definitely should try to book your flight home out of Rome. Anything you wanted to buy in Milan, you can buy in Rome.

Having said all that, I would drop the Naples/Amalfi/Capri portion of your trip. It is so cramped your are actually going to see very little. Add that time to Rome. If those in your group who have been to Rome want to dash south, let them.

If you find it too heartbreaking not to go south, I say eliminate your tour of the Amalfi. You can see it from the boat to Capri. (Or eliminate Capri. You are likely to get no further than the most touristy parts of it on that tight schedule). Pompeii is HUGE. Give yourself time to see it.

You could elminate a night on Lago di Como without missing too much unless you are very eager to see the gardens and villas of the lake. If that is one of your uppermost interests, don't cut back. But if you are basically looking to catch your breath and see the beautiful views, two nights is enough.

annimal -
Yes! Ryan Air is that cheap! A friend from London recommended this airline to us. We will fly it in June while we are traveling in Europe.

While we were in Rome we stayed at the Hotel Caprice. It was a very inexpensive, clean, friendly hotel with great breakfasts. It is located in a great area. Check out www.hotelcaprice.it They arrranged our trip to Pompeii, Sorrento and Capri. It was a three day / two night tour with Carrani Tours. The Carrani guides spoke in English and provided the hotels and food -it was reasonably priced. We felt it was our best bet as we did not know where we were going or how to get there. Capri can be very very crowded - especially the ferries over there. That can be intimidating - I was glad we were with a tour. They condensed Pompeii to the main spots - because it's so big.
Hope this helps a little. Good luck - Phylly

Hi Phylly, the HotelCaprice looks very interesting. I have always stayed in that area when in Rome and love it!! The hotel I liked as gotten expensive, the HotelCaprice has good rates especially considering the area and from the photos it looks lovely. I have bookmarked it. You might want to check it out annimal. And have a wonderful time in Italy.

Re. Ryanair, just keep a close eye on their baggage restrictions. They're really not designed for long-haul tourists, so you can expect to pay extra for the more luggage you probably will need to have with you.

best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)

Thanks Deirdre for the warning! We did see that we have a limit of 15 kilo which I believe is around 33 pounds. We have figured we will be traveling very light! Mailing purchases wherever possible! Putting on a couple layers of clothes! And in the end, probably paying for some overage charges! I guess this will be our challenge. Phylly

Hi Annimal,

Your trip is fast paced but doable. I would really cut one night in Varenna and add it to Venice. 2 days in Venice is not enough.

Also, trains between Milano Centrale and Varenna are not very frequent so be sure to check your schedules. Trains between Milan and Venice can be packed - make advance seat reservations for sure.

I would not bother going to Capri for 4 hours. If you do go, be sure to take a small boat tour around the island (approx. 2 hours). It was the one thing I really enjoyed - it was great to get away from the hoards - in Sept.

Buon viaggio!

okay, so I've had to make some adjustments. here's what I have so far:

Day 1: depart USA

Day 2: Rome
- arrive in Rome around 3pm
- check into hotel
- have dinner and take an evening stroll (perhaps Rick Steve's Night Walk)

Day 3: Rome
- explore more

Day 4: Rome
- see Vatican, others can go shopping

We can either see the Vatican in the morning and take a 2 - 3pm train down to Sorrento via Naples or we can stay another night in Rome and leave the next morning for Sorrento

Day 5: Sorrento
- if we've already in Sorrento the night before, we would see Pompeii and Vesuvius

Day 6: Sorrento
- see Amalfi coast

Day 7: Sorrento
- see Capri

Day 8: Venice
- we can either take the train from Sorrento to Rome and fly Rome to Venice or we can take the train all the way to Venice
(CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO NAVIGATE TRENITALIA'S SITE FOR SLEEPER CABINS?? - I have been on several times now and while I see the trains that go overnight, I can't find where it shows the sleeper cabins.)

Day 9: Venice
- see some sights, explore more

Day 10: Venice
- more sights, some shopping

Day 11: Varenna
- take train from Venice to Varenna
- explore Varenna and Bellagio (etc)

Day 12: Varenna
- explore more of area

Day 13: Milan
- take train from Varenna to Milan
- explore & shop in Milan

Day 14: fly home from Milan

I really need help with the overnight train from Sorrento/Naples to Venice as I just can't seem to find the info I need on Trenitalia's site.

Plan looks much improved.

I have never heard anybody say anything good about spending the night on an Italian train. Included in the complaints are that those trains are especially prone to being delayed because it's a skeletal rail staff at night. No one seems to sleep well on them. Food is scarce. Even on Eurostars, toilets can be grungy (and definitely out of paper. Always have a pack of Kleenex with you).

A relatively affordable Milan hotel that is convenient to transportation to the airport and central to many sights (especially Da Vinci's Last Supper) is Hotel Palazzo Delle Stelline. Book it through an online agency like Holiday City for a good rate.

I don't know if you have booked your accommodations in Varenna, but one gorgeous place to stay is the Eremo Gaudio. It's not for people with vertigo, however, since the only way to get to the hotel involves a funicular ride up the side of a cliff in glass elevator. It used to be a hermitage.

http://www.eremogaudio.it/

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.

Nessundorma - Unfortunately, I am the only one in our group who is afraid of heights! The Varenna place you described sounds beautiful, but I think I would end up camping at the base of the glass elevator.

What does everyone think about renting a car and driving from Sorrento to Venice? Aside from flying, I think the drive time would be about the same as train rides and we could take our time and see Umbria and the rest of the country since we aren't actually staying anywhere in the center. Plus, with 5 adults, it seems more cost efficient than 5 sleeper train tickets at 100 Euros each. Any thoughts, suggestions or warnings?

Hi again Annimal,

A drive from Sorrento to Venice will be a very long one. You won't want to take your time because you really won't have any to spend. Also, renting a car for 5 people will raise luggage issues. What sizes and how much will your group be taking? Will it fit? A one day rental will be expensive!

Hi Dayle,

I've located a station wagon that is suppose to sit 5 people and fit 3 large suitcases and 2 small suitcases. That is about what we will have. It's with Hertz and goes for 159 Euros. Plus, we're #1 Club members, so we should see a little bit of savings on top of that rate. Not too bad for us. We're known for our "road trips".

Hi annimal, Phylly again! We drove from Umbria to Venice and it took most of our day. I would think about breaking that trip up. Just a suggestion. By the way we stayed in Cernobbio (Lake Como) at the Hotel Regina Olga and it was a great place. A little pricy, but we loved that spot on the lake. www.hotelreginaolga.it
Phylly

Any suggestions for a good hotel in Milan close to the shopping but in the low 200 - 250 Euro range?

Going by car sounds practical with three suggestions:

1) Doublecheck to make Hertz will agree to a one-day rental from Rome to Venice.

2) Find out what time the rental office in Venice closes.

3) Consider breaking for the night. You have to allow for the possibility the trip will take longer than you think.

As for Milan hotels: Shopping is everywhere in Milano. If by "close to the shopping" you mean "couture" and famous Italian label showrooms, that is the area around San Babila. I've never stayed there but it's a nice area, and not too far from the train station.

If you can't find anything you want, I'll stick with my recommendation of Hotel Palazzo Delle Stelline. Nice neighborhood. Good rates.

Boy are you abitious! I saw your posting and thought I'd peek. Just having spent 3 weeks in Italy, I think you may be trying to cover too much in too little time. It appears that you are cutting things close with arrivals and departures to other locations. Please be careful with your trains... I can't tell you how many times they were not on time and how many times we arrived late. Give yourself some padding.

Venice was magical but EXTREMELY dirty and full of tourists. The best part of Venice was our B&B.

Words of caution... the train to Naples and Sorrento. If you have never been there before I don't think you'll want to arrive ANYWHERE when it is dark. Naples was dirty and very large... Sorrento, much more calm but smaller and not a place to arrive in darkness. We trained from Florence to Naples and attempted to take the ferry to Positano... there were no ferries. Had to spend 100 euro to take a 1985 Fiat taxi ride nearly 70 miles.

Watch out for Naples. This was the place we saw the most gypsies... and yes they do exist. Out of all the cities we visited Naples was the scariest. I found it equivilent to Tijuana.

Even though my comments are not so positive I am not sharing all the marvelous moments we had... this would take too long. It's a beatiful country with some of the nicest people. Exercise caution in you're planning... you don't want to miss out on the joys of traveling. You must stop and drink the Chianti!

Chao and have a marvelous holiday!

Elaine

Elaine,

How much of Naples did you visit? Yes, the area around the train station is shockingly bad, but the city on the whole is wonderful, as is Venice. I would be interested to know where you are from, since you seem to think Italian cities are so dirty!

Everyone's experience and point of view is different. In 9 weeks in Italy on 3 diferent trips, I've only had one train that was 10 minutes late. I also don't think the cities are dirty. My opinion...