Hi, <BR> We were thinking of taking a 10 day vacation to England in September and had several questions: <BR> <BR>1.Is it for us to get to Stonehenge on our own by taking the train to the area where we get the bus to the site on our own if we go late in the day as recommended, or do we have to take a tour bus if we do not have a car? Also, what about getting back? Do those buses and trains run regularly in the late afternoon or early evening? <BR> <BR>2.Is early to mid September less crowded in London and other areas? <BR> <BR>3.Are the rose gardens and other English gardens still in bloom in early to mid September? <BR> <BR>4.What about this itinerary? Our plan was to stay in London and take day trips to Bath, Stratford upon Avon, Cotswold area (or is a car necessary for that?) Oxford, Cambridge, Stonehenge by train if possible, figuring that it would be more relaxing not to have to drive. We feel we only need 2 days to explore London itself, preferring the other areas, but thought it would be easier not to have to switch hotels and fly back from the same airport. Any feedback on this would be appreciated. If , however, we did rent a car, where would be best to do it, since London is very crowded and short on parking, how would we return the car being in a different place than where we rented it from and what do people generally do about getting back to the airport that they flew into to return home, once having traveled elsewhere? <BR> <BR>5.Are there certain things that we should reserve in advance? If so, what is the procedure? <BR> <BR>6.Finally, can anyone recommend good hotels and restaurants? <BR> <BR>Thanks for all your help! <BR> <BR>Cheryl <BR>

Cheryl, Regarding your trip to England. I don't have any information about Stonehenge, but will try and help with your other questions. It will be a little less crowded in the places you mention in mid. Sept., but those towns are always busy. Yes, the roses will still be blooming, however, gardens will not be as pretty as mid summer. <BR>I would not attempt to visit the places you mentioned by a series of train trips from London. You'll spend too much time on the train/tube and won't be able to go far once you get to your destination. Instead, I'd suggest changing hotels. Go by train to Bath and rent a car. This way you can stay there for 2/3 days as a base and drive out to Stonehenge and the lower part of the Cotswolds. Then, drive up to Moreton in the Marsh and use that as a base for another 2/3 days visiting the top end of the Cotswolds, Stratford Upon Avon and Oxford from there. After that you can drive across to Cambridge and leave the car there. Getting the train back to London. At that point get the hotel in the city, thus avoiding two London stays. It's no problem to rent a car on the internet. We usually find Alamo or Kemwel are good prices. We always pick a car up in one town and drop it off in another - it's no problem. I would also book the hotels or B/B's before going. Bath would not be a problem to find a place, but Moreton in the Marsh could be. The Cotswolds are beautiful. I go back there at least once a year and never fail to be impressed by the scenery. The driving there is very different as those little lanes are very narrow. Enjoy your trip. June

Hi ... <BR> <BR>While in London I would suggest you go to the Millenuim Eye .... this gives you great views of London ... suggest you book in advance ... <BR> <BR>Mark

Cheryl, <BR> <BR>I agree with June. My husband and I did a similar thing for our wedding trip a number of years ago. We took at train to Oxford and then drove to Stratford, where we stayed for several nights while we went to Stratford, Warwick and Kenilworth castles, Blenheim Palace, and part of the Cotswolds. Then we drove to Cirencester, where we stayed for a few days while we visited more of the Cotswolds. <BR> <BR>I haven't been to Stonehenge since I was in college, but it seems it ws quite easy to get there by train (to Salisbury, I believe) and then bus. <BR> <BR>September is my favorite time to go to England. I'd vote for staying in London longer. I was just there for a week, with a single day trip to Stratford. It's a wonderful place! <BR> <BR>Good luck, and enjoy your trip.

Cheryl: <BR>Are you sure you aren't traveling with us? We too are planning a two-week trip in September, and the first part of the itinerary sounds much like yours. There are six of us, and we have an ongoing debate regarding transportation options.

Cheryl, I too think September is one of the best times to go to England (or anywhere in Europe). It's a bit less crowded than high summer, and the weather is still lovely (to the extent you can predict that kind of thing). <BR> <BR>As far as the gardens in bloom, yes, in a lot of cases they still are, but they will definitely be well past their prime. When we visited Hampton Court a couple of Septembers ago, my mother and I still thought the gardens were beautiful, but my dad, an avid rosarian who's rather picky about those things, was disappointed with the rose gardens. I'd say that if you're going to England specifically and particularly for the gardens, you might want to schedule another trip in May, when flowers are at their peak, but if gardens are a nice bonus to the rest of your trip, they should still be lovely enough in September for you. <BR> <BR>

Re-think using public transportation to visit Stonehenge in September. The times for the buses going out to Stonehenge are limited at that time of year and you could waste a great deal of time between waiting for the buses and the trains (we did - we were unaware that once the "tourist season" was over there was a change in the schedule) - I suggest you contact them to get an update. We would have been much happier driving and being able to come and go as we please. I also suggest that you allow some time to explore the Salisbury Cathedral - lots to see there.

I think Julie's advice is good. I pulled up a couple of posts for you with some info. We took Evan Evans Stonehenge/Bath trip and were as satisfied as one could be with that way. Advice. At Bath, unless you are fascinated by roman ruins zip through the museum to get to the lower view of the baths then head out for lunch. We ate at Cafe Uno near the Poultney Bridge. Evan Evan's site is: http://www.evanevans.co.uk/stonehenge.htm <BR>Our pictures are at: http://www.geocities.com/shrimp56/en...stonehenge.htm <BR>

Cheryl <BR>If you decide to base yourself outside of London for a few days,you could still get by without a car:Cotswolds <BR>There is a Costwold Link bus service that runs twice daily in both directions from Bath to Stratford, making stops en route that include the best towns in the Costwolds. <BR>You can use this to daytrip from Bath or Stratford to a Cotswold town, vice-versa, or within the Costwolds.. <BR>Here is a sample schedule (9/99) listing only some of the stops: <BR> <BR> departs departs <BR> <BR>Bath 10:00 14:30 <BR>Cirencester 11:24 15:54 <BR>Stow-on-the-Wold 12:15 16:45 <BR>Moreton-in-Marsh 12:30 17:00 <BR>Chipping Campden 13:05 17:35 <BR>Hidcote Manor 13:15 17:45 <BR>Stratford 13:40 18:10 <BR>Or: <BR>Stratford 10:00 14:30 <BR>Hidcote Manor 10:22 14:52 <BR>etc <BR>Bath 13:40 18:10 <BR> <BR> <BR>Website for the X55 Cotswold Link schedule: <BR>http://www.gloscc.gov.uk/pubserv/gcc/ <BR>environ/trans/news.htm <BR>That bus service would connect with train services to London at Moreton-in-Marsh and Kemble, as well as at Stratford and Bath <BR>One website for Costwolds: www.broadway-cotswolds.co.uk/ <BR>Full day tour of the Cotswolds (minibus) with the Cotswold Experience. Their website is: <BR>http://www.visitus.co.uk/bath/tours/ <BR>cotswold.htm <BR> <BR>One other comment, the countryside is lovely, but if you haven't been to London before I urge you to at least allow for the possibility of wanting to spend more than two days there. It is very large, and as cities go, very wonderful. <BR> <BR> <BR>

Cheryl- <BR>September is a great time to go to England. I've been the last two years in September, but this year I'm travelling in June. Flowers are still in bloom, and the landscape is still lush and green so you'll still see the England you see in pictures (not as many flowers that's all). Definitely do London and get out. The Evan Evans 'day tours' from London will take you to Stonehenge (Salisbury) and Bath for dirt cheap and you can stow your bags underneath the bus and depart the tour in Bath. Or you can get a Brit Rail Flex pass (check the britrail web site) and travel freely for an assorted number of days within two months for much cheaper than return fares. Leaving London you'll save on Hotels and the value per pound will increase greatly. We stay at a standard B&B in London with all the neccessary facilities but little charm for 85 pounds a night. In Bath we stayed at the Marlborough House B&B for 70 pounds a night and had a room with a four poster canopy bed...In Stratford and Dorset we had the same wonderful rooms for 45 pounds a night. You'll love the freedom of staying in places you like rather than running to catch a train back to London or to re-join the tour group. <BR>Many major tourist towns offer day trips. Check the Guide Friday webiste for some deals. Bath offers one to Stonehenge and Avebury. Stratford even offers a 4 hour cotswold tour with a really knowledgable guide. You can relax and see the country the way you want to, at your own pace. <BR>Have a great trip <BR>

Dear Cheryl' I agree pretty much with the last message - see my reply to Janie!

Greetings from London. June and Julie offer some sound advice. Hiring a car is the only way you can do this sort of trip around provincial England without wasting a great deal of time. Don't use London as a base, but move around the country in a logical order. You don't need a car in London. If you do go to Stonehenge, try to take in Avebury (another stone circle) and Salisbury as well. September is a good time to travel in England (and in Europe generally) - sometime we get an Indian summer and the schools have gone back so the holiday destinations are less crowded. As far as restaurants are concerned, check out http://www.hardens.com (their UK guide is still a bit underdeveloped, but the London guide is excellent). Generally speaking, you will find that you will pay in pounds what you would pay in the States in dollars, and petrol (gas) is a lot more expensive...Hope this helps.

Hi Cheryl, I am here to second (or third) the opinions of the other posters but to add this. If you do decide to hire a car, see if you can get a special deal when you book your flights, or if you have booked your flights already, see if they can add on a car rental. We did this and saved a ton. It broke down this way; We wanted to get to and from Cornwall, the round trip tickets for two came out to about $150.00 (not a Britrail pass, just the single tickets) and it would still have been difficult for us to get to some of the more obscure sites I wanted to visit. By contrast we added a car rental to our airline tickets and it came to $100.00 for ten days unlimited mileage. However gas is very expensive, but I really enjoyed the freedom to visit all the out of the way places in the UK. Good Luck

Just remember, when booking any kind of accomodation (i.e. b&b/inn/hotel/hostel, etc.) be aware that most of those establishments charge PER PERSON, not per room. Therefore, before booking, make sure you understand the TOTAL price.

I agree with the other messages that it would be best to hire a car to get to Stonehenge. You could stay in a hotel in Salisbury (sorry don't know any specific ones there) plus there are great places to eat there, or at The Castle & Ball in Marlborough. I have stayed there and its a really nice hotel - part of the Forte Heritage chain - delicious food and reasonable rates. You would then be able to travel down through Pewsey vale where you can see the White horses on the hillsides, beautiful scenery, and nice pubs along the way. In Marlborough itself there are two nice cafe/restaurants. One is called "Pollys" and is opposite the Castle & Ball hotel and the other is next door to the hotel (can't remember the name, sorry). <BR>Hope you have a great time - by the way, if any of you ride there are a few riding stables in the area which take you on some lovely hacks up the hills. The views from there take your breath away.

hi! <BR>as far as the car rental goes..i cant imagine trying to drive in the london area.. the traffic is unbelievable..the motorist are fearless. your best choice is a britrail classic pass (about $400 U.S.). the trains are easy to use and run almost any time you want them. use the tube in the ciy or walk.. you'll see alot more that way..and there is alot to see. <BR>the fall is a good time to go.. the crowds have thinned and you will spend less time "queing up". <BR>the flowers were still blooming when i was there last october..september should be fine to. <BR>check out the dionysus greek resturant on oxford street.. food is resonable and the service is excellent ( i found the service to be lacking compared to american standards in most other resturants) <BR>have a nice trip!