Need help from Czech history experts
Mar 27th, 2006, 08:31 AM
#1
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Need help from Czech history experts
Please help me find my ancestral village. My great-grandparents came to the US from a town near Prague in 1892. I don't know the exact distance, but I would guess it to be 50 miles or less ("near" is the closest description I can get from family members). At that time the area was part of Austria and the name of the town was "Eichorn." I imagine since the area became part of Czechoslovakia in 1918 and then Czech Republic, the German-sounding name was changed to Czech. I've explored many internet search engines and can only find verification that there WAS an Eichorn - Winston and Clementine Churchill spent part of their honeymoon there circa 1908.
Does anyone know the name of the town formerly known as Eichorn? Or if there are any web sites that might be helpful in my search?
Thank you much.
Does anyone know the name of the town formerly known as Eichorn? Or if there are any web sites that might be helpful in my search?
Thank you much.
Mar 27th, 2006, 10:38 AM
#2
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/w...sys~shtetlexp5
Hope this is helpful. 5 possibilities shown. I found this on Cyndi's List, a primo source for genealogists.
http://www.cyndislist.com/czech.htm
If Churchill honeymooned there, perhaps it was at one of the spa towns in Western Czech Republic (which then was part of Austria-Hungary)
Hope this is helpful. 5 possibilities shown. I found this on Cyndi's List, a primo source for genealogists.
http://www.cyndislist.com/czech.htm
If Churchill honeymooned there, perhaps it was at one of the spa towns in Western Czech Republic (which then was part of Austria-Hungary)
Mar 27th, 2006, 10:47 AM
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poohgirl:
The town of Ryzoviste, on the Polish Border, would be that small town (Braunseifen during the Austro-Hungarian Empire days)that was very close to the former small town of Eichorn (don't know what the name is now). It's also near Harrachov in the heart of the Silesian mountain region (The Krknose Mountains) in Northern Czech Rep....approximately 125 kms due north of Praha (Prague) (75 miles). This, by the way, is an exceptionally scenic area of the Republic and I have driven it two times in the past 10 years. It is within a National Park.
Stu T.
The town of Ryzoviste, on the Polish Border, would be that small town (Braunseifen during the Austro-Hungarian Empire days)that was very close to the former small town of Eichorn (don't know what the name is now). It's also near Harrachov in the heart of the Silesian mountain region (The Krknose Mountains) in Northern Czech Rep....approximately 125 kms due north of Praha (Prague) (75 miles). This, by the way, is an exceptionally scenic area of the Republic and I have driven it two times in the past 10 years. It is within a National Park.
Stu T.
Mar 27th, 2006, 11:01 AM
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pooh: This old map of the Bohemian part of the Austro-Hungarian empire shows "Reishenberg at the top of the page...this is the general area you're seeking. Reichenberg was probably quite close to Braunseifen, today's Harrochov and Eichorn. It might have been the Austrian name for Harrochov.
FEEFHS Map Room: Austro-Hungarian Empire (1882): Bohemia (138K)
Stu T.
FEEFHS Map Room: Austro-Hungarian Empire (1882): Bohemia (138K)
Stu T.
Mar 27th, 2006, 11:04 AM
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Mar 27th, 2006, 11:07 AM
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Mar 28th, 2006, 05:50 AM
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Thank you so much Logos and everyone else. I really appreciate it. I would have looked a LONG time before I put together "Eichorn" and "Veverska Bityska." 
Tomboy, I too had thought it might be one of the spa towns in the west.
I'm going to CR in September and will be the first in my family to visit an actual area from where we came. That makes me even more excited about this trip than I was before.
Again, thank you. You rock.
Tomboy, I too had thought it might be one of the spa towns in the west.
I'm going to CR in September and will be the first in my family to visit an actual area from where we came. That makes me even more excited about this trip than I was before.
Again, thank you. You rock.
Mar 28th, 2006, 06:25 PM
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Poohgirl:
I must beg to differ with Ingo
<<Well, then it must be Veverská Bítýška, a few km northwest of Brno in the region Moravia>>.
Eichorn, from all the information I passed on to you, is not a few kms northwest of Brno. It is, as I've written above, in the Krknose Mountains of northern CR...a very long way from Brno.
If I uncover anything else, I'll be sure to write again.Good luck.
Stu T. ([email protected])
I must beg to differ with Ingo
<<Well, then it must be Veverská Bítýška, a few km northwest of Brno in the region Moravia>>.
Eichorn, from all the information I passed on to you, is not a few kms northwest of Brno. It is, as I've written above, in the Krknose Mountains of northern CR...a very long way from Brno.
If I uncover anything else, I'll be sure to write again.Good luck.
Stu T. ([email protected])
Mar 28th, 2006, 08:58 PM
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See genealogy of former village in South Bohemia (German Eichorns, Czech Veveri) http://jihogen.ic.cz/veveri-sassmann.htm
Near of Brno is castle Veveri and towns Veverska Bityska and Veverske Kninice are nearby of the castle. Good luck.
Near of Brno is castle Veveri and towns Veverska Bityska and Veverske Kninice are nearby of the castle. Good luck.
Mar 29th, 2006, 11:26 AM
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Ingo:' It stems from Czech Genealogical charts that claim a town called Braunseifen during Austro-Hungarian control was nearby to a village named "Eichorn"...current Czech name for Braunseifen is Ryzoviste. Checking this (pardon the pun) it is in the Krkonose Mountains of CR, in the former Sudeten region of Silesia...thereby assuming on a preliminary basis that whatever was "Eichorn" is in the vicinty of that Ryzoviste.
However, turns out there is another Ryzoviste, near Bruntal and Rymanov about 60 kms north of Olomouc, or 135 kms NE of Brno . But there is no indication that it, too, was once named Braunseifen. Could be I'm wrong, you're wrong or we're both wrong. I intend to do some further research and will share. Afterall, it is Poohgirl who stands to benefit if we can solve this puzzle.
Poohgirl, ask if your family members remember whether Eichorn was in mountainous country, or was it definitely in flatter Moravia rather than Bohemia. This would help us zero in on the right Ryzoviste. Seems that the Moravian Ryzoviste is about 280-300 miles east of Prague..and your guess is "50 miles"..that in itelf would indicate the Ryzoviste in the mountains, approximately 70-75 miles north.
Don't you guys just love genealogical research!
Stu T.
However, turns out there is another Ryzoviste, near Bruntal and Rymanov about 60 kms north of Olomouc, or 135 kms NE of Brno . But there is no indication that it, too, was once named Braunseifen. Could be I'm wrong, you're wrong or we're both wrong. I intend to do some further research and will share. Afterall, it is Poohgirl who stands to benefit if we can solve this puzzle.
Poohgirl, ask if your family members remember whether Eichorn was in mountainous country, or was it definitely in flatter Moravia rather than Bohemia. This would help us zero in on the right Ryzoviste. Seems that the Moravian Ryzoviste is about 280-300 miles east of Prague..and your guess is "50 miles"..that in itelf would indicate the Ryzoviste in the mountains, approximately 70-75 miles north.
Don't you guys just love genealogical research!
Stu T.
Mar 29th, 2006, 12:31 PM
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That's interesting. I still doubt that "Eichorn" is located in the Krkonose - I live only a few km away, on the German side of the border and have travelled the region extensively. I never heard of a town or village with such a former German name (my native tongue is German and many Czech I met speak German).
By the way, the distance Praha - Brno is about 200 km. Praha - Liberec is 109 km. Neither is about 50 km.
By the way, the distance Praha - Brno is about 200 km. Praha - Liberec is 109 km. Neither is about 50 km.
Mar 29th, 2006, 04:19 PM
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Mileage or kms..the OP has talked in terms of miles, so I was following suit...I did not consider Brno at all..but rather Bruntal where the second Ryzoviste is located. The distance from Bruntal to Praha is indeed about 270 kms or 160+ miles..I should have written kms. BUT, our purpose is not to nit pick here, Ingo..we merely want to help the poster (poohgirl) zero in on her ancestors village...I assume you agree.
Stu T.
Stu T.
Mar 29th, 2006, 08:10 PM
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I absolutely agree. The reason why I needed to make this correction was to show that Veverská Bítýška is closer to Praha than you said. Distances are important because Poohgirl could not give us an exact number of miles/km but wrote: '"near" is the closest description I can get from family members'.
Maybe we should concentrate on Churchills biography. Did he write down something about the honeymoon?
Maybe we should concentrate on Churchills biography. Did he write down something about the honeymoon?
Mar 29th, 2006, 10:32 PM
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poohgirl,
my daughter-in-law is Czech and I have forwarded your inquiry on to her - expect to have an answer on Tuesday and will reply further then.
in the meantime, suggest you follow up with the genealogy website listed below: you will find your way around it easily and you could perhaps list the same posting for both your ancestors/Eichorn in the Austria and German sectors of the site along with the Czech section I have given.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/czech/
good luck .... Jay from Oz
my daughter-in-law is Czech and I have forwarded your inquiry on to her - expect to have an answer on Tuesday and will reply further then.
in the meantime, suggest you follow up with the genealogy website listed below: you will find your way around it easily and you could perhaps list the same posting for both your ancestors/Eichorn in the Austria and German sectors of the site along with the Czech section I have given.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/czech/
good luck .... Jay from Oz
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:44 AM
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OK, Ingo..let's go to work...your suggestion to check out Churchill's biographies is a good one..maybe there will be an indication of his honeymoon. I hope he didn't smoke and chew his cigars at that romantic time of life!!
Stu T.
Stu T.
Mar 30th, 2006, 09:39 AM
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I find these kind of puzzles interesting as I do research for a living (although not this kind).
However, I wonder if the Churchill connection would prove anything anyway. I think poohgirl just found that mention on Google (as did I) for Churchill, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the same Eichorn as her parents came from. Eichorn is a fairly common German name, isn't it, so there could be lots of towns by that name. That was just the only verification she found of any Eichorn, in Austria, that's all. The entire connection to Churchill could be meaningless.
Now I found the Eichorn up near the ski resort and the mountains also on the web (I've been to Prague and Moravia, so was sort of interested) and would have bet it was that one, rather than the one near Brno (which I also found on the web).
First, because it would be closer to Prague, although ancestors fuzzy description of something being "near" Prague could mean anything or be wrong, you know how that goes. However, if it were the place Churchill honeymooned, wouldn't it make more sense to be in the mountains than around Brno? I don't suppose it was a resort then, but maybe, that is when skiing resorts and holidays started up in Europe (I don't think Churchill skiied himself, he wasn't really a big sports buff).
Wherever Churchill went, I don't think that means poohgirl's ancestors were from there--they were from some Eichorn in Austria and there were apparently at least two in what is now the Czech Republic.
However, I wonder if the Churchill connection would prove anything anyway. I think poohgirl just found that mention on Google (as did I) for Churchill, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the same Eichorn as her parents came from. Eichorn is a fairly common German name, isn't it, so there could be lots of towns by that name. That was just the only verification she found of any Eichorn, in Austria, that's all. The entire connection to Churchill could be meaningless.
Now I found the Eichorn up near the ski resort and the mountains also on the web (I've been to Prague and Moravia, so was sort of interested) and would have bet it was that one, rather than the one near Brno (which I also found on the web).
First, because it would be closer to Prague, although ancestors fuzzy description of something being "near" Prague could mean anything or be wrong, you know how that goes. However, if it were the place Churchill honeymooned, wouldn't it make more sense to be in the mountains than around Brno? I don't suppose it was a resort then, but maybe, that is when skiing resorts and holidays started up in Europe (I don't think Churchill skiied himself, he wasn't really a big sports buff).
Wherever Churchill went, I don't think that means poohgirl's ancestors were from there--they were from some Eichorn in Austria and there were apparently at least two in what is now the Czech Republic.
