Last year we successfully took our 4 kids to Japan for 9 days and had a blast - this year we want to take them to Europe - we have been many times before and have taken one as a baby, but have not been with all 4. Would appreciate any tips on great cities and great sites, restaurants, hotels, etc.

Do not want to do apartments as we don't want to cook and clean. Want to be in central areas and easy to get around - have a good budget to work with, luckily, but want to be at places with some ambiance - not american chains in europe.

What sites were great - what things were awesome - what are your best tips?

Our kids will be 12, 10, 9, and 7 and we are right now thinking of London, Paris, Rome & Venice - we will only have probably 10 days - sounds like a lot, I know, but want to give them a good overview of the basic spots (plus we love Venice) - would love to add Amsterdam (Anne Frank house, etc.), but think it would be a serious stretch. I am set on going to multiple cities (we did this on last trip and it was fine for us), so no need to dissuade me on that - but would love your favorite sites in those cities and anything fun and different to do.

We will probably get a some private guides here and there - any good tips on that? Had read at one point about a tour guide group that specialized in kids and making it fun for kids and informative - does anyone know about this?

Hi J,

>London, Paris, Rome & Venice - we will only have probably 10 days ...<

I look forward to your trip report.

How do you envision your sleeping arrangements? It may be difficult to find connecting rooms or family rooms that sleep 6. We reserved a "family room" at a hotel at the top of the Spanish Steps in Rome that actually was only a decent sized room with an extra single bed. We ended up in a hotel with just a pull out couch for our 2 (much smaller than yours) children. Are the kids old enough to share a room with mom and dad in a room next door or across the hall? That would help with hotel recommendations.

If you only have 10 days, you should also check into travel times between these cities. You can easily waste a good part of a day packing up, checking out of a hotel, getting to the correct train station, train journey, getting to next hotel, check in. . . Especially with so many people. Ex. to get to Paris from London you take the Eurostar from Waterloo, but you probably won't be staying near Waterloo - it may be a long taxi ride to get there - probably worse for the Paris hotel once you get to the Gare Eurostar drops you at. So 2.5 hours on the Eurostar can easily turn into 4. No big deal, but I wouldn't want to do it every other day with kids. Plus if the kids need to chill out for a bit in the hotel you may be in a city and miss some of the major sites. The sites in London and Paris are not compact - you need some time to get around.

If you do want to do all, you might consider starting in Paris, Eurostar to London, and from London take a flight to Venice or Rome (I would pick one - and have 3 days in each city with one day for the long travel leg). The reason I say from London is that it is a hub for many airlines to other European destinations. You still have to get to the airport and have travel time, but much less than a train from Paris to Venice or Rome unless you are willing to do an overnight with the kids.

I don't know anything about Japan, but I suspect the city to city travel was not as time consuming as the itinerary you have proposed for Europe. If you check out the travel times and you still want to do it then go for it. Or you could add some time to your trip to fit it all in.

Personally with kids, I would do either London/Paris or Venice/Rome but not all in 10 days. Pick one this year and one next year.

Just because you rent a flat does not mean you have to cook and clean. Many provide daily (mon thru fri) maid service at no extra charge! The extra space, alone, at prices much better then most hotels, is what I enjoy!!!

With only 10 days you should really consider choosing one country at at time...that way you can give your kids a real overview of a country with a mix of cities and small town, historic sites, points of interest that may relate to things they are studying in school, and interesting outdoor excursions or entertainment. For example you could do London as a base with some day trips to Hampton Court, Bath, castles, etc. There are a lot of things in London that may appeal to the age range of your kids (Castles, Tower of London, London Eye, Double Decker buses, and parks) or do London and Paris.
You could also do Paris and then take the train to Amsterdam for a few days.
For Italy I'd recommend concentrating on that country only...Venice for 2 days, Florence 3 days with a 1/2 day trip to Pisa (kids generally like to see the Leaning Tower) and then to Rome. Venice is great for kids because it's very magical and there is no cars- Rome -with a possible day trip to Pompeii. Rome has so much to do and see and there is the Borghese Gardens which is a great park for kids.

I agree with everyone else. With only 10 days you could do London/Paris or Venice/Rome but doing all four will leave you seeing the inside of a train most of the time.

Ginny is right, just because you are in an apartment does not mean you have to cook and clean. We will be doing apts. for the first time this March in London and Paris and I don't plan on doing any cooking! We have opted not to do the daily maid service but it was available.

Here is the link to our trip report from last March to Rome, Venice and Florence with our kids ages 9 and 12 at the time. http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34599242. Includes info. on hotels, restaurants, private tour guides and fun things we did with the kids.

I agree that you would have a much better time doing just London/Paris OR Rome/Venice on a 10 day trip and save the other two for next year. There is plenty to do in any of those cities to take up 4-5 days (depending on whether you are knocking off a day on each end for travel.

The only good tip I have for you is to rethink your "I am set on going to multiple cities" position - this will not be an enjoyable vacation for any of you unless you pare it down to at most two countries.

I travel with my 4 children and if we stay anywhere for more than a night or 2 we rent an apartment. So much more space - which becomes more important the older your children get - I don't clean it, and if I cook it is because I choose to do so. Also I think it give the children more of a sense of actually living in a foreign city, as opposed to staying in a hotel which could be anywhere. Your older children would be capable of going out to buy croissants and rolls from a nearby patisserie for breakfast - a great learning experience for them, even if you accompany them.

If we do stay in a hotel I book 2 rooms, and last summer the youngest at 12 years shared with his 14yo sister.

But 4 cities in 10 days? With children? No way. Far too much time wasted travelling, packing up all the time. And you would only barely scrape the surface of each city, hardly seeing anything. Your children's memories will just be of trains, planes and busses. And the sheer boredom of such continuous travel.

London and Paris would be good - there's so much for children to do and see in both cities. Eurostar between the two means just half a day travelling. Rent an apartment in each city, eat out, don't clean. It's a wonderful experience.

For apartment rental in Paris try

www.beau-paris.com
www.parisaddress.com

And for London do a search here.

There is no way I'd stay in a hotel with 4 kids...our kids are grown and I still prefer apartments! It's not just the extra space, but the convenience of having a kitchen available for snacks/drinks etc. I don't cook during vacation, but it's so nice to be able to relax after a long day of sightseeing with a cup of tea, glass of wine and space! And as an extra, it's so much less expensive!

I'm afraid I also agree with everyone else on the multiple cities......I'd do 2 cites at the very most.

Here is another vote for paring down your destinations. London/Paris is a perfect intro to Europe. Italy with Venice/Florence/Rome is another good choice. Traveling around Europe is easy and the above train connections are as easy as traveling the trains in Japan. Trying to do London/Paris/Rome and Venice is a nice overview into Europe but with 10 days it only gives you about two full days in each location as you will lose 1/2 day each time you transfer. This also does not include the fact that everyone will be tired from traveling on your first day in Europe. Traveling and changing hotels with a family is a hassle and we try to minimize moving because of this hassle. Two hotel rooms with an extra bed in each should work for you. Two days each is not enough time to visit London or Paris or Rome IMHO and it will leave only a blur of an experience for your children. A tour guide is a good idea for the first day in each city. Many on this board have used Michael as a guide in Paris and I too recommend him. If you do a board search you can find information on him. Lastly, we too use apartments alot on our travels in Europe but we do tend to stay in one central location for a week and do day trips unless we are doing a road tour. Hotels however are just fine and which hotels might work for you depends on your budget. You will have to be more specific as to what you mean by a "good budget" It is hard to make recommendations for a hotel when some people who have a good budget stay at the Bristol or GeorgeV in Paris and other people with a good budget stay at places like the Timhotel Louvre.

Hi JM

I'm with kmflondon. Don't just hit a few basic spots go for 2 cities max. I would even suggest one! o.k. 2 if you must. Let your kids settle in, soak up the atmosphere. Our 4 kids are similar ages. We,ve been to London twice, each time for 6 days, Rome for 6 days & plan 6 days in Paris this year. We didn't rush about trying to see too much, we always left something for the next visit

Get some really good , child friendly guide books & let the kids help with the planning. The will have great memories of their family holiday

London and Paris would work well, or Italy by itself. All 4 cities are too far apart for 10 days. You'll spend every other day in a train/train station or plane/airport. Your kids will remember "planes, trains and automobiles" and not the 1 or 2 sites you are able to see in each city.

Kids are happy where their parents are happy - - but that said, I would rate these cities as having higher than average kid "appeal" (even though I have not been in all of them with kids tha age of yours)

1. Venice
2. Paris
3. Amsterdam
4. London
5. Rome

Like others, I urge you to resist the temptation to choose four destinations - - and I realize that my 1, 2 and 3 are a bit more logistically difficult than 1, 2 and 4 (or just 2 and 4).

Alternatively, there would be merit to considering a plan of 2-3 different destinations - - but all in the _same_ country... nothing could whet their appetites to become lifelong travelers/"world citizens" than to use this experience as the opportunity to start acquiring some fundamentals in the language of another country (curious: did 9 days in Japan result in any learning of Japanese, parents or kids?)

I think you can find places with a quad room without driving yourself crazy. And if they were my kids, I would put the 12 year old, and the oldest "gender-match" to the 12 year old in a room separate... but adjacent... to you quad.

If your 12 year old is gender different from all three of the younger sibs - - then you'll have to figure out how to handle this, based on "you know best" what works for your own kids.

Best wishes,

Rex

Thanks for your kind advice and I do appreciate it - unfortunately, I guess none of you actually really read what I wrote - I asked for advice on good sites and hotels and specifically asked not to have people try to dissuade me from my itinerary.

I appreciate you are trying to give me good travel tips - truly I do, but unfortunately, we all have our limitations, and mine is time. I cannot take more time and I cannot wait to come back as we cannot travel that frequently due to work for my husband. We are lucky to get 10 days in Europe (not including a day on each end to get there)and though it sounds terrible to you, we are excited about making the most of what we can. I wish I could have the luxury of time to spend a whole week in each country over the next few years or more, but I don't have that luxury.

Would love some good responses on my original questions which were ideas for good sites and good accomodations with the kids (especially hotels - I understand that an apt. might be best, but does anyone have any good hotel recs?).

If you want to try to change someone's trip, I suggest checking out the mom who is going to Italy in July with toddlers who has a posting, too.

Thanks for the advice on having trouble getting connecting rooms - that was very helpful - we had a similar problem in Japan.

In answer to budget questions - I guess by "good budget" I did mean George V, not that I want to spend that, but I mean that I want to find something reasonable and most importantly, clean, and well located and I would not want to miss a good rec because someone thinks it is too expensive - prefer to decide for myself if it is worth the price or not - so meaning I don't want any good recs left out based on pricing.

I have travel between cities worked out just fine, so don't worry, kids will be fine.

Has anyone done any Harry Potter movie site tours?

In answer to the question on language - believe it or not, we only got the kids one Japanese lesson prior to trip and they picked up quite a lot of Japanese while there - it helped that we had lived in Japan 10 years ago and mom still knew enough Japanese to get around.

Kids took French when younger and we will brush up on it - mom knows good amount of French and some Italian.

Okay, so best sites with the kids in the cities I mentioned - no judgement calls on my itinerary - thanks - and I will take your initial advice to heart (you do not need to continue to concur with previous writers - I get it). Thanks!

By the way, traveling with kids, having done a lot of it, is only as bad as you let it be. If you have a good attitude, things like train rides or sleeping on trains become fun adventures not exhausting nightmares - as long as your kids are over 6 years of age.

I am confused-if you have already been to Europe "many times before" then why are you asking for tips on "great cities and great sites" along with hotels and restaurants? It sounds like you already know what you want and where you are going so I am at a loss as to why you want anyone's imput? Europe is really like an artichoke that has to be peeled off one by one to appreciate- so think positive that you are going to have other trips back there.

Your kids are probably good ages for the Ceremony of the Keys at London Tower. You have to request tickets in advance, in writing, but they are free. It's held at sundown and is an authentic ritual they've done for hundreds of years to lock the compound. It's kind of creepy and fun for kids. I think I went to the London tourist website and found a link to it, where you find the address and instructions how to get tickets.

I didn't weigh in at first because I read the &quot;<i>I am set on going to multiple cities . . so no need to dissuade me on that</i>&quot; and figured your ideas were set in stone.

Your latest post just confirms that - but I can't resist.

Your plan is simply <b>crazy</b> -- and since you have been to Europe so many times in the past, you are better off just keeping your own counsel. Most everyone who has replied are very well traveled and experts about one or more of the places you want to visit.

W/ 10 days/4 cities you will have a total of 3 to 4 full days of intercity travel/checking in/checking out. Leaving only about 1.5 days of actual sightseeing time in each city.

And few if any hotels will be able to accomodate 6 w/o having your young children in separate rooms - making apartments a MUCH more sensible choice. Oh, but your mind is set about that too.

Since you don't want to consider anyone's advice I'd just recommend you do your own thing.

Perhaps you could fly to London,
stay 2 nights,
fly to Venice, stay 2 nights,
drive to Tuscany (near Florence) and find a place with a pool (Relais Villa L'Olmo is a good one), stay 3 nights,
drive to Rome, stay 3 nights

I think you should first decide on your places, then focus on hotels.

Dear JM Hauldren:

We have traveled with our children (then ages 11 and 7) to Europe about 3 years ago and we are returning again this summer. We went to the places mentioned in your post so I'll give you the rundown of what we did.

London-We stayed at the Chancery Court hotel and loved it. It is run by Marriot and the rooms are very nice with two double (may have been queen) beds in each room. I am sure you could get connecting rooms. check their website for specials because we got breakfast included in the rate which was a deal. We loved the hotel because it is on the same tube line as Heathrow so the kids and us just took it from the airport no problem. The stop is Holborn which is just across the street from the hotel. Hotel is near Covent Garden which our children loved. Hotel is used in a lot of bbc programs and Howard's End because it looks like the top of a wedding cake.

We had purchased the London Pass and included the tube use in its purchase. Some might argue its a rip-off but with the kids we didn't care. It got us into a lot of museums and we could by-pass the lines with it. You need to buy it in the U.S.

Our children in London loved The tower of london, the cabinet War rooms, Hamley's Toy Store, Princess Diana Playground, Big Ben, the Queens Museum, the Whispering Chamber at top of St. Paul's and just walking around London. We also took them to Lion King which they loved. They also loved riding in a black cab. Since you travel with kids, you know the drill, mix museums up with kid's activites.

For Paris, (we flew over from London) we stayed at the Hotel Muguet in the 7th. You could get two triples for your family. Hotel was simple but we found very convinent because it was near the effiel tower (kids had a view from their room) and in between two metro stations. It ran about $100 euros a room. Plus a laundrymat is just down the street. The kids loved Rue Cler which is nearby because they could get crepes and other snacks and window shop. We also found that our children liked staying in hotels just outside of all the action. We were not in the outskirts, but not in the noiser sections of cities. At most 5 extra minutes from the center of action.

For sights in Paris, our children absolutely loved doing the boats in luxeumbourg gardens, the louve (but could only handle 1/2 day), the orsay museum with the impressionism paintings, the pompediu center, rodin museum and napolean's tomb and Notre Dame. We also visited a french toy shop, but I can't remember the name. Be alert that in Paris cabs will not take more than 3 people at a time. We usually would beg to take 4, but I think they did that because our daugther was very small. Also get paris museum pass.

For food our children loved Angelica's (check rick steves for restaurant with the african chocolate). Since it was my daughter's bday, we splurged and ate at Attitude 95 on the second level of the effiel tower which our kids thought was great. We ate at other great places, but their names escape me. I would look at previous posts here and on rick steves.

One evening we just got picnic food from Rue Cler for dinner and ate it in the hotel breakfast room. While doing so Jamie Leigh Curtis walked into the hotel to pick up her aunt who was staying at the hotel. We then left and to in a concert (it was only a hour) at the church with the great stain-glass windows (St. Chaplle-by the way its late here and I'm tired so I know this post has a lot of grammar and spelling errors, please forgive them.) We then walked along the Seine to a restaurant where we all got hot fudge sundaes and could watch the lights of the Effiel Tower. Other families from other countries were there and the kids had a blast-a very magical evening with a little bit of everything for each family member.

Rome-We stayed at the Hotel Alimandi which was simple but very clean. It is across the street from St. Peter's and the museums. They have a very filling breakfast on the rooftop which gave our children a lot of choices for breakfast. In Rome all the stories about gypsies on the metro scared me so we took cabs everywhere. The hotel did a great job at calling cabs for us.

Our number one highlight of Rome was the Papal Audience. The hotel had extra tickets which they gave us and our children still talk about it. We also splurged and hired a private guide (Danielle Hunt) to tour the Roman Forum. She was great and geared the tour to our children's interests. She also took us to a great restaurant for lunch.

In Rome we had two dinners that we really enjoyed, one was at Pietros (Danielle can give you the address) and the other was at La Tartuga (a favorite here on the boards). Both catered to our children (including giving them extra helpings of desert). Lunch one day was at Ensalda Rica (60 Naciemento) near St. Peter's. A huge offering of 50 different salads plus they made the kids whatever they wanted.

Venice-Since this was our last stop on the trip we stayed at the Antico Doge in the doge suite. Again this was just a little off the beaten path, but we had a canal view room which we all enjoyed. There was an internet cafe nearby which also had video games arcades which the children enjoyed as a break from the museums. Our daughter had read a book called &quot;Zoe Sophia's Venice Scrapbook&quot; so our time in Venice followed the book. We toured St. Mark's, the doge museum, had snacks at Cafe Florian and heard the dueling orchestras and rode at midnight a gondola ride-our last night. Son and my husband went to Murano for glass while daughter and I shopped. Had dinner one night at a seafood restaurant around the corner from hotel but they could give you the name. Author of the book, &quot;a thousand nights in venice&quot; always ate there.

Best tips with kids:
--get them all audio guides for museums, it keeps them entertained and explains what they are seeing
--give them each a set amount of spending money so that they feel like they have control over some aspect of the trip. We gave each child $30 for all 4 cities so Daughter collected snow globes and son little statues of sites.
--prep them for trip with books (both fiction and non-fiction) about places they would visit. Our children also became Rick Steves junkies and would watch the show. They also would view movies set in the places we were visiting.
--Don't be afraid to break up the group. Some times in the afternoon my husband and I would switch off and one would take kids to do a kids activity like luxeumbourg garden boats while other parent got to stay in museum.
--Bring two way walkie talkie for kids to use if theyare in their own hotel room and it is not near your room. We also kep the keys to kids' room so they would be afraid to sneak out since they couldn't get back in.

Hope this is helpful. I found with kids planning went a long way. I would search internet to see if there are any special plays, concerts etc. going on while you are visiting and purchase any tickets in advance.