lemidi

"This is not new and has nothing to do with Bush. I just considered that it was in their nature to be more intellectual than my American colleagues who were discussing music or clothing".

Perhaps I should replace the word intellectual with erudite as I do not mean to insult anyone's intellect or intelligence. I am not implying that the French are smarter or have a higher IQ than Americans. I consider myself competitive with the French in that department. But at a young age I was impressed by the French youngsters' interest of international politics.

Ira, good one.

eric502

On vacation I don't talk about politics, I would talk to you about other things of interest.

At work, I don't talk about politics.

When out with friends I stay away from politics.

Why? I'm trying to enjoy myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

altamiro

>When out with friends I stay away from politics.

>Why? I'm trying to enjoy myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is exactly the cultural difference so many posters tried to highlight.
Many people, in Europe and elsewhere, discuss politics precisely because they want to enjoy yourself. Plus, in many countries with representative system the political landscape is not quite as bitterly polarised as it seems to be in USA.

altamiro

...they want to enjoy yourself.

I mean "to enjoy themselves", of course...

eric502

A few years back before the election we were eating breakfast down in the Loire near Chinon and a British couple said how happy they were that President Bush would not be President much longer. I never talk politics when I'm in France but I did say I thought he would win the election and they were shocked.

ira

>I have NEVER been asked my income. Ira, are you teasing us?<

Nope.

A not unusual gambit is,
"So, how much do they pay professors at the University of..."?

"Oh, between xxx and yyy dollars".

"I meant, how much do they pay you?".

I then ask for whom they voted and they go away.

eric502

I have never had anyone ask me how much I make.

I guess if they did my answer would be, not enough.

robjame

By concentrating on the details of Ira’s post, you miss the important fact. There are cultural differences between what is acceptable as topics for conversation between Europe and North America AND because we find them rude it does not make them rude. So as a traveler you celebrate and enjoy the differences in cultures and you do not try to reconstruct home when you are abroad. This is the essence of being a good visitor.
One of the reasons people try to blend in is so they are not associated with those who are unable to do this.

ready2travel

I'm in total agreement with LucieV's earlier post. The only thing I'd add is that, when I'm traveling and asked about politics as "an American," I try to answer as politely and clearly as I can that I'm answering as an individual and not a representative of the Bush administration.

Of course, I'm in a "mixed" marriage being an American myself married to an Israeli. As you can imagine, politics is a daily topic of discussion in our household. As I posted earlier, I'm not immediately announcing my nationality (nor is my husband) but we always state it truthfully when asked. Perhaps we've been extraordinarily lucky, unlike other posters, having never been the recipients of virulent political comments from taxi drivers, newspaper sellers, shop assistants or anyone else for that matter.

The mirror image of this is that, living in the NYC area, I have NEVER approached or reproached a tourist from a country whose politics I might not agree with personally, or caused tension and discomfort by haranguing them about their appearance or political leaders.

ira

>By concentrating on the details of Ira’s post, you miss the important fact. There are cultural differences between what is acceptable as topics for conversation between Europe and North America ...<

Thank you, Rob.

Pegontheroad

While sharing a table with two German couples in Garmisch, at the urging of my sister (The devil made me do it!), I asked them what they thought of our president. I was surprised when one of the women, who was probably in her 60's, spoke up in a general defence of America because American care packages kept her and her family from starving after WWII.

Kealoha

I don't find talking about politics rude its the bad-mouthing and trashing about how "evil" America is that I take exception to. If you are going to talk to me about American politics or any politics, stick to the factual and logical arguments. And don't insult my country--its just disrespectful. The same way if I had a guest at my home, I will never dream of speak ill of their neighborhood.

robjame

<<The same way if I had a guest at my home, I will never dream of speak ill of their neighborhood.>>
...but many will

AntInNewYork

I have a couple of things to add:

I'm on my way to Italy in a few weeks and of COURSE I realize the minute I open my mouth, any "gig" will be up. I was raised by a father who was a NYC police officer and you'd better believe one of the many things he drummed into my head was not to call attention to yourself when you're out somewhere in a foreign place. Or even the city for that matter. Who's the easier target - an American, or a local? My point here is that my snap reflex in answering GSteeds' initial question is to answer in a manner that would reflect my personal sense of security. I'll refer to Babs' post (3rd one down) on the tourists she (and I) see every day in NYC making a nuisance of themselves. Just put a bullseye on your back, why don't you.

Some people just have it out for Americans, and like it or not, we have to deal with it. It's the world we live in, and politics is front and center of entirely too many heated debates. To me, that is the reason why people consider it impolite to discuss it (to answer another poster's query).

My first experience being confronted about politics and American way of life was a few years ago on my first trip to Cape Town. I was invited to dinner with several people in my age group who happened to hail from all over Europe and South Africa. I was literally accosted throughout the night by the Europeans about how much they hate us. I was absolutely shocked at their vehemence - they didn't even know me! Hard not to take it personally As this scene repeated itself over the course of a week (memories I won't soon forget), it became apparent that most of what they know of us is through Friends, Jerry Springer Show and the like. I guess the media just ruins us over there. The South Africans I encountered however, simply just wanted to be educated about our culture.

Yes, I'm speaking in generalities and ABSOLUTELY not of all Europeans, but it was truly an unfortunately experience as it was the first time I had been overseas. I was worn out by the end of the week from defending our way of life, trying to explain that I didn't live in a loft on Park Avenue, that I worked just like them for a living, I put my pants on one leg at a time, just like them, etc.

I learned (the hard way) that when someone starts in on me about America to ask them when the last time they had visited was. Since it's usually the folks who have never even been here throwing the stones, that sometimes can be effective in shutting them down. Although with Bush dispatching another 20,000+ troops today to Iraq, I'm not sure it will be all that easy to avoid these types of conversation over there.

kenav

To Lemedi -
I was in Vienna for an English as a Second Language teacher's conference. One of the major speakers (British) compared the British, French and Americans re: conversation. The British will appear to be interested and say something politely to you, but it means they never want to see you again; the French (your "erudite" populace) will always act as if they understand anything you may talk about even they haven't a clue (i.e., will never admit they don't know or are expert about something), and the Americans want to be entertained. I (American) found this smart and very funny.

lemidi

Kenay
Did you hear the one about the Polack?

kenav

Thing is - I could laugh at the (admittedly one-sided and hardly all inclusive) description of Americans, (and not be insulted as an American) as well as two other nationalities, with reference to communication styles. And, it was a communications conference, so taking on cultural differences in communciation was appropriate. Everyone laughed - all from many different countries (remember the speaker was British and making a humorous remark about the British.)

Hope the French have sense of humor about themselves, too. (My aunt is French and she does, so there's one!) Relax.

lemidi

Just for those that may have read too seriously into the British speaker's statement I was simply emphasizing the fact that he was making a joke. Maybe I misunderstood your intent where you wrote "the French (your "erudite" populace)" and "I (American) found this smart". Sorry.

kenav

Lemedi - Sorry if I misunderstood.

Liam

*I just don't understand* why someone would prentend to be something he is not. My attitude is that people who can't stand someone else's nation of origin are bigots and not to be worried about.

Why would you hide your American-ness? I can think of barely a handful of places I wouldn't want to be known as an American (maybe Pakistan or maybe Sudan), but I'm probably never going to either country, so why should I care?

I think anyone who is a tourist to Paris or Copenhagen or Buenos Aires who is also afraid to be American is a fool. My experience is that having a glass of wine and getting to know the person across the table erases all political gaps.

I'll be in London this summer as an American and I neither expect Londoners to be impressed nor me to care what some Londoners might think.