annhig

You bring this system to America by hiding the true price of the services being rendered and then "proving" to everyone that you are more "efficient.">>

????

ira

For those who don't understand why some people don't want a one-payer system:

I was at a motel in Columbia, SC when I suddenly became extremely dizzy. The feeling passed, but came back in a few minutes. My wife helped my to our room, where I became violently nauseated and violently sick.

We called the front desk and asked for an ambulance.

Within one hour I had been monitored, oxygenated, transported, CAT'd, admitted and put on an IV. I was supervised and medicated 24/3, until I was able to ride home.

In Madison, I was seen by my GP, who sent me to the hospital for MRI. It was discovered that I had had a stroke. I spent 5 days in our local hospital.

I have been examined and tested by neurologists, cardiologists and pulmonoligists. I have been poked, prodded, listened at and scanned.

All of my physicians are agreed: I had an ideopathic TIA. That is, I had a stroke, but no one knows why.

At this time, according to my receipts, the cost of care has been in excess of $35k. I have paid only the copay on my Rx.

I would like everyone to have the same level of care that I received.

Unfortunately, there are those who are afraid that if they let others into the lifeboat, we will all sink.



I pay $5 for a 1-month supply of warfarin. My zoloft is free.

ira

Hi cg,

>i can't believe the doctor came to me.<

Once upon a time, when Uncle Ira was but a wee lad, all GP's made house calls.
.............................................
Hey Hmmmmm,

>You bring this system to America by hiding the true price of the services being rendered and then "proving" to everyone that you are more "efficient."<

Care to elaborate on that, or is it just a religious belief?

tomboy

Oooo Oooo
And while I'm at it, I'll take a 23% Value Added Tax on everything I purchase, please.
Oooo
And may I pay about 10% more income tax, please?
Ahhhh, now I feel better! Free medical care, at last.

Palenque

Unfortunately, there are those who are afraid that if they let others into the lifeboat, we will all sink.>

and that my friends sums up our national recalcitrance to have such a comprehensive quality care system available to all, regardless of the ability to pay

The wealthy who have insurance are a minority but in the health care debate they and the health corps have bought off the politicians.

shame on the U S of A

meanwhile 45,000 Americans died a year from not having health insurance!

annhig

ira,

I realise that you are NOT one of those who are trying to pull up the ladder behind them.

I have no reason to believe that you would not have received very similar care here in the UK, in France, Germany, Spain, etc. etc.

and so, Tomboy, would ANYBODY who presented with the same symptoms. we don't pay 23% VAT on everything [actually in the UK it's 15% at present, but shortly to go back up to 17.5%] - food for example is VAT free, and I bet that the extra taxes I pay are LESS than the insurance premiums you pay.

AND I'm not at the mercy of some insurance underwriter, nor locked into some job I hate because of the employees' health benefits.

no, it's not perfect, but we are all in the same boat, so the incentive to improve is very strong.

StuDudley

>>AND I'm not at the mercy of some insurance underwriter, nor locked into some job I hate because of the employees' health benefits.<<

I know many people who would like to retire, but can't because they would not be able to keep their health insurance, or the premiums would skyrocket. The company I worked for did not offer retiree health insurance. Luckily, my wife's company (Visa) did offer it when we retired in '09 - but the premiums have more than tripled for less insurance. Visa is constantly reducing the coverage offered. In 3 years all spouses won't be covered, but I'll be on Medicare by then. New Visa retirees must pay 100% of the premuims (around $12,000 per year). We pay around $7,000/yr (huge co-pays - plus 80% coverage on lots of stuff). Very close friends pay $20,000/yr for crummy insurance. She had a tough battle with breast cancer 8 years ago, so no other insurance co. will offer insurance to her until she is cancer free for 10 years. Other close friends pay $17,000 per year with no history of medical problems.

Last year, we had a plan that was offered & administered by Cigna. This year, we have an additional layer of "bureaucracy" in our plan - something called the "Mills/Peninsula Medical Group" - which is just another insurance sub-group - not doctors. They actually do all the billing. They have billed us around $2,000 in extra fees & charges (they don't show up on any bills - just in the total). My wife has spent probbably 100 hours trying to work with Visa, Cigna, and the Mills group to resolve these "errors". Both Visa & Cigna (whom our insurance contract is with) have indicated that these charges are erroneous, but Mills is in no hurry to fix them or even acknowledge that they are in error. Cigna had to insist that Mills "freeze" our account so that it would not be sent to a collection agency.

How may times have we heard people opposed to Natl health care indicate that they don't want a (assumedly poorly run) government bureaucracy administrating their health care??? Well fans, the bureaucracy that we have is horrible - can't imagine anything else could be worse. MY FIL is opposed to Natl health care - but loves Medicare - go figure!!!

Stu Dudley

Pvoyageuse

"And while I'm at it, I'll take a 23% Value Added Tax on everything I purchase, please."

VAT varies in France from 2.1% to 5.5% to 19.6%.




"And may I pay about 10% more income tax, please?
Ahhhh, now I feel better! Free medical care, at last."


Nobody ever said that medical care was free. It is deducted from your salary and has nothing to do with your income tax.
The amount deducted each month during your working life ensures that you, your husband/wife (if one of the two is not working) and your children until they come of age are properly insured. When you retire you keep the same benefits and you get a retirement pension.

And yes, some of the money goes to those who for one reason or another cannot benefit from the general "Securité Sociale" scheme. It is only right that they should not be excluded. Call it socialism if you like, I call it moral obligation.

kerouac

I have always been amazed by the fact that the U.S. Congress has comprehensive health coverage, and they have had it for a long time.

Isn't that a bit strange? Socialist even?

ira

Hi Ann,

>I have no reason to believe that you would not have received very similar care here in the UK, in France, Germany, Spain, etc. etc.<

Nor do I.
...........................................
Hey TB, (or Hmmm)
>Oooo Oooo<
Are you claiming that you don't pay sales, excise and other taxes on the goods you buy?
How much are you paying in taxes that a 10% rise would be more than the cost of Universal Health Care?

Have you thought about this, or is it just the typical conservative knee jerk response?

PegS

Thanks for the interesting testimonials. It amazes me how many people I know oppose national health care but have Medicare--and they never see the contradiction.

cafegoddess

kerouac,

Thanks for the information. My wonderful husband (from Hawaii) got a hold of an American massage therapist but I decided not to go. He was charging more than the doctor that saw me (150 euros plus tip). By noon today, I felt a lot better, so I decided to go shopping and have a nice sole menueire (sp?) at Balzar and a mache salad with beets. Delicious!

Mr Dudley,

I feel your pain regarding the premiums you have to pay. My husband and I would like to retire early but we know it is not possible.

artsnletters

Unfortunately, those who are categorically opposed to a one-payer system (or frankly even something that will cover everything) just lack a balancing experience.

Try having a preexisting condition and having to buy insurance at what you can. I experienced this a year ago. I was able to buy a "continuation" policy where they had to take you regardless of what you came with: $550 per month, huge deductible, they paid for NO - *NO* - prescriptions. My ongoing care cost approximately $1,300 per month. For 2-1/2 months, my medical "insurance" and care cost me about $4,000, before I found a job with employer coverage. Gee, that was FUN!!! I am not employable, certainly not at my current level of functioning and pay, without my treatment. So certainly if I hadn't had the $4,000 (but it really drained my savings), or access to buy the continuation policy, perhaps I would now be living on the dole. But THAT will save us money in medical costs!

Or you could be my poor friend, who graduated from law school in May and is still job-hunting. She has asthma, scoliosis, insomnia, and crippling anxiety. No continuation medical policy was available. She obviously can't buy insurance on the open market. At the moment she has no income and is living off very slender savings, buying only what medications she absolutely must. If she doesn't find a job with benefits before her savings are gone, I wonder if she will ultimately be employable when the meds are gone. But it will certainly benefit the country if her considerable skills are lost.

Those who resent the extra it may cost to cover everyone: (1) do not realize that they are already paying for many of these people's care at emergency rooms, (2) do not realize that many people are not productive, or not <i>as</i> productive, without medical treatment, and (3) have never themselves been in the position of being without health coverage, or at risk of losing it and facing what it will cost to maintain an ongoing condition.

People, perhaps you really need to walk a mile in someone else's shoes to understand what's at stake.

annhig

artsnletters

you sum up the dilemma very well.

I have asked this before of those who are opposed to universal health care and failed to receive a satisfactory amswer - what is the difference between education for all, and health care for all? why is the one provided in the US, and not the other?

someone once said "no man is an island"..

Underhill

Education for all in California is falling on hard times, especially at the college level. Local schools are laying off teachers and other staff; the University of California and the California State University systems are increasing fees to levels that would have seemed ridiculous a year or two ago.

StuDudley

>>People, perhaps you really need to walk a mile in someone else's shoes to understand what's at stake.<<

There was only 1 person on this thread who didn't seem to support universal health care - and he didn't present any facts as to why he opposed it - just the typical "knee jerk" stuff Ira referred to.

I recognize the screen names of lots of people on this thread - all seasoned travelers. Just like the Iraq war, people who travel to different countries seem to have a different perspective on "things" than people who don't travel much.

Stu Dudley

artsnletters

College education in California has never been "for all" in the sense annhig meant - it's never been free. I considered doing graduate work at the University of Michigan, and 10 years ago it cost the same as UC Berkeley costs now. Not that I think that makes it great California is drastically increasing tuition costs, but college was a great bargain here until fairly recently.

K-12 sucks, but you can thank Prop 13 for that.

Is there anything right now that <i>hasn't</i> fallen on hard times? Until the economy rights itself, times are going to be very tough all around.

jean253

I was born in the U K. Came to California U S A when I was 53. now 78. so have experienced both systems,I am still in touch with relatives over there.
In U K if there is a medical emergency you are treated quickly with all the care & expertise needed for your recovery. on the other hand lab tests can take up t 3 weeks or more for results, non emergency surgery,s could be a wait of 6 to 12 months, depending the area where you live. medicines a small co pay. free to seniors & children. In general people see their G P as a higher class & hesitate to question there prognosis .
& why they have to wait so long for tests etc. I guess you get what you tolerate
The older generation get a lot of help some has to be paid for but they are allowed to have some savings.
Here in the U S Service is prime providing you have insurance ! & I agree with Stu . In my opinions insurers "Give you umbrellas while the sun is shining & take them away when it rains "
Jean.

Nikki

Kerouac, I am not particularly amazed by Congress's health coverage. Like most coverage in the US, it is an insurance plan tied to employment. Most people who have such coverage are reportedly happy with it, even though it is not usually as extensive as that enjoyed by the members of Congress. If they are voted out of office, members of Congress are dependent upon other coverage like everybody else.

So it does not strike me as particularly inconsistent for Congress to fail to enact a single payer system. I believe they are responding to the perceived wishes of their constituents, since most Americans evidently do not support such a system.

gracejoan3

And Stu you didn't even touch upon 'long-term care' insurance policies!!I pay over $600 monthly for it.

I am fortunate with medicare and Aetna insurance plan coverage as widow of KPMG retiree.Fortunately it also covers prescriptions and dental. Prescriptions can be almost non-affordable for many. The rates increase almost annually. Who knows how the plans will change with whatever the gov. ends up passing!

I had a long conversation with my French friends about their medical coverage and care..also about long-term care for the elderly. They did indicate that with all of us living longer that it is a problem that France is now working on.

Something that was very different. If you go to the hospital, their primary concern is your well being, not how you are going to pay for it! They are only interested in your well being! In the US, your well being seems secondary to money!

Hospital charges and Dr fees are FAR different from the US. You are not going to be wealthy as a Dr in France, like the US.

I had a friend who recently was in Paris and going with Paris friends to Provence. She became ill and ended up in intensive care for 3 weeks..diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. She left hospital, country, without paying anything..was treated without any calls for whatever US coverage she had.No way, in US!! She is going to post it all when she gets all the insurance straightened out and completed.

Joan