I'm trying to firm up an itinerary for my Alpine driving tour coming up in late May/early June. It will be "pass-dependent" as well - trying to max out on visiting the beautiful passes. So this is still subject to changes - especially to make it geographically logical as I add/subtract things.

So far it looks like:

Two nights Munich, pick up car.

One night Zell am See, next morning Grossglockner all day.

One night Heiligenblut at the other end of the Grossglockner.

Two nights in the Dolomites (Castelrotto or Bolzano? or somewhere nearby)

The day we leave the Dolomites, we will take the Stelvio Pass, into Switzerland - maybe stay one night near St. Moritz (I visited Pontresina a few years ago...)

Two nights in Varenna (maybe 3 nights?). Mom and I were here last year and it's one of my favorite spots now.

Two nights in the Mont Blanc area (Chamonix? Annecy?)

One night in Vevey - since it is so close to Annecy/Chamonix, we can actually see a fair bit of it with only one night, since we'd arrive early and could leave the next day as we wished. I visited Vevey a few years ago - the area, and the Lake, are beautiful.

Three nights in the Berner Oberland - still deciding where. I stayed in Interlaken 15 years ago (at Balmer's Herberge, no less...)

Last night must be Munich to drop off the car.

We have to see the Grand St. Bernard Pass - trying to figure out where that ties into the itinerary, after Varenna. (and visit the Grand St. Bernard Hospice - my Mom raised St. Bernards when I was a wee lass).

I'm still researching the other "must-see" passes and things to do, and so on.

We'd be up for light hiking in the area, too. Still thinking about this, but it's taking shape finally.

Any advice, bring it on!

I must thank Ingo, PJA, Hausfrau, Bob Brown and Bob the Navigator, treplow, swissguy, schuler, and several others... for their great postings which helped firm this up. There isn't actually a huge amount of info in English out there - not compared to say Venice, or Tuscany, or Paris... I finally managed to find a book called "Pocket Adventures - The Alps" and there is a motorcyle book, currently out of print, that I'm going to snap up the minute the next edition comes out. Also take a look at the website www.alpineroads.com for great info.

I hope this thread becomes another great resource for trip planners for Alpine drives!

A couple of quick observations:

> Two nights in the Dolomites (Castelrotto or Bolzano? or somewhere nearby

As a city Bolzano is not very attractive. However, it is the gateway to OberBozen and other charming villages on the Dolomite ridges (and easily reached by cable car). There is a stunning narrow gauge tram running between these villages.

Rather than staying in Chamonix, we stayed in Aosta on the italian side. it's a small town with good restaurants and Roman remains. There is a cable car to Pila, the ski resort above Aosta. From Aosta I would head straight to the Grand St Bernard pass, rather than going through the expensive Mont Blanc tunnel (in 2004 it cost well over 35 euros). From Martigny, at the base of the Swiss side of the St Bernard pass, you could regain Chamonix.

pjd

Looks great to me. In the BO I would not stay in Interlaken. Everyone likes Wengen, but with a shiney new car I would opt for either Grindelwald or Kandestag--or Lauterbrunnen as a staging area. Also, I think I would do Lago Como after the Dolomites and before St. Moritz. Have fun !

Thank you PJD! I'll look into that.

Bob - I'd really like to drive the Stelvio Pass - would it make more sense to go to Lake Como after that, instead of St. Moritz? I certainly could, in which case I'd likely just drop St. Moritz off the itinerary entirely - which would free up a little time somewhere else.

>The day we leave the Dolomites, we will take the Stelvio Pass, into Switzerland - maybe stay one night near St. Moritz (I visited Pontresina a few years ago...)<

Another option is to include Reschenpass and come through the lower Engadine. Drive through Sent, down to Scuol, and up to Ftan and through Guarda. Stay anywhere for one night. Wonderful.

However, we love the drive from Mustair Valley through the National Park. Also beautiful.

Another option is to stay in Samnuan. There are two roads that make my stomach queasy from all the curves: Stilfserjoch (Stelvio) and the road up to Samnaun on the Swiss side.

In the Dolomites, I'd stay in Castelrotto. You'll LOVE the circular drive through the Dolomites. I find it a smidgeon more breathtaking than the Swiss alps.

I'd have a hard time planning your trip just because there's so much to see and I'd have to limit myself.

Schuler, you have identified my challenge, spot on.

Too much to see, too little time to see it!

Thank you for your comments, I'll look into them as well. My dining room table is starting to look like a war room, with atlases, maps, books, and fodors printouts all spread out all over the place. I've amassed quite a few maps/atlases over the years, and am putting them all to good use here!

I have one suggestion: Driving those mountain roads for several hours can be rather stressful. I suggest you be prepared to cut your itinerary and omit one or two of the destinations. You want this to be a fun trip rather than a grind-it-out march across the alps.

I think you will enjoy Col Grand St. Bernard.

We drove up to the old hospice last summer from Castle Chillon. It was a fairly easy drive up. The only caution I have is to make sure you do NOT take the road to the tunnel. Watch for the sign, which was fairly small, that directs you to the top of the pass.

The weather at lakeside was warm; at the pass we got hit with sleet.

We arrived just as the handlers were bringing the dogs inside.
One big boy was much more interested in his girl friend than anything else. His handler, a small female, was tugging for all she was worth trying to pull him into his apartment. She finally got him in, but it took considerable effort. I think the dog weighed more than she did.

There is also a museum associated with the hospice and it is interesting.

There are quite a few buildings on the top of the pass and the immediate area.

As Swiss Alpine passes go, this one is fairly mild on the Swiss side.

The Grimsel, Furka, and Sustern Passes are much more dramatic.

I think Lauterbrunnen will be good place to stay.

However, if you will be there in late May, some of the higher passes will not be open. The Furka Pass should be open because it is a main road and the snow plows stay active (so I am told).

The season for the Grossglockner Hochalpenstraße is open around May 8 depending on snow.

It is a thrilling drive. I do recommend very strongly that if you can drive a manual shift that you have one, preferably a 6-speed gear box. You will smoke the brakes on more than one occasion, so you will need a car with top flight tires and brakes.

I don't know where you plan to say in Munich, but what worked well for us last year was to stay at the Hotel Astoria in Schwabing and pick up our car at Denninger Straße.
(We took a cab.) If you rent at the airport or at the train station you pay more for the car!!

For the Astoria, a rental office on Leopold Strasse would work just as well if not better depending on who has the car you want.

At least that was the case last year.

We stay at the Astoria because it is a good hotel in a non touristy area close to the U-Bahn. The breakfast there is fabulous.

A few comments:

I am not the expert for the Dolomites; more for Switzerland. But I have done some drives there and also stayed in a couple of places. My recommendation is to drive from Heiligenblut via Dobbiaco and Lake Misurina to Cortina d'Ampezzo, then via Falzarego pass, Col di Lana, Arabba, Passo Pordoi and Passo Sella to St. Ulrich - Castelrotto. That area is beautiful and a good place to stay.

If your heart is set on the Passo Stelvio, then do it. But I'd recommend to turn right after the pass and drive the Umbrail pass down to Val Müstair, across the Ofen Pass to Guarda and stay there for a night (or better two). Hotel Meisser or Hotel Piz Buin are perfect.

The next day drive to Lake Como. Up the Engadin to Maloja pass - down the Bregaglia valley with a short detour up to Soglio where you should have lunch and do a walk through the village for an hour.

It is quite a distance from Lake Como to Chamonix, but if you drive the motorways from Varenna via Milan to Aosta then it is doable. Turn right in Aosta and drive over the St. Bernhard Pass, in Martigny turn left and drive over the two lower passes to Chamonix.

Honestly, I would probably skip Chamonix/Annecy altogether, spend a day or two more in the previous places (Guarda, Varenna!) and head to Vevey/Montreux right from Martigny.

Don't stay in Interlaken. I'd say Grindelwald is best for late May/early June. Not crowded at that time, but also not 'dead'. And be prepared that it is quite a long drive from there to Munich.

Ingo

I agree with Ingo to edit out the Chamonix and Annecy leg. Although it's a beautiful area, I think you'll have enjoyed plenty of glorious scenery by that time (and more to come in the Berner Oberland).

You could reach the Grand St. Bernard Pass from the Valle d'Aosta after Varenna on your way to the BO.

We drove the St. Bernard's Pass several years ago from Aosta across and into Switzerland. Drove up through the clouds and beautiful vistas, a little mist. A fairly easy and enjoyable trip.

Jinx Hoover

We drove from Munich to Lauterbrunnen, which would be almost identical time wise to Munich - Grindelwald.

We took the route by way of Kempton.
There were two areas were maps were very handy that we printed from Internet.

First the interface from the Austria roads to the Swiss autobahn is a little tricky.

Second, you must know where to turn off the Swiss Autobahn to Luzern.

Also there is a decision to make about staying on the autobahn in Austria. Technically, a toll sticker is required for any use of the autobahn in Austria.

If you elect to stay on the regular roads, you have a fairly long period of city driving which will slow your rate of travel.

After some discussion, I finally opted for the Austrian autobahn.

The decision was rather pragmatic. I needed a toll sticker for Switzerland as well. When I went into a place near the German Austrian border, it sold Austrian and Swiss passes. So I bought both and stayed on the autobahn.

Yes it cost me a few euro to do so, but it did make the trip less stressful in that there was no driving in a strange city area.

I think you can look at about 7 hours all told from start to finish.

Good advice for fellow fodorites. My only addition is that you will be putting a lot of stress on the car and yourself. Prepare for something to go wrong (just in case). have an auto club number/membership.... you will not want to loose a full day with a problem.

Hi flygirl,
Your plan sounds very good.
Zell am See is gorgeous!
For your stay in Heiligenblut, check out Pension Ederhof. Fantastic location with a view of the Grossglockner!

www.ederhof-heiligenblut.at

Two nights in the Dolomites.
I totally agree with Ingo... from Heiligenblut via Dobbiaco and Lake Misurina to Cortina d'Ampezzo, then via Falzarego pass... only I'd probably stop in Val Badia.

Fantastic place we can highly recommend is:
www.montanara.it

Otherwise I'd suggest any of the 3 villages in Val Gardena. We stayed in St. Christina and can recommend:
www.garniariston.com

When heading for Switzerland if you go through Meran/Merano and the Val Venosta/Vinschgau,
check out Castle Churburg.

www.churburg.com

I also agree with taking the Mustair valley into Switzerland. If you can, stop at Convent of St. John in Mustair.

www.muestair.ch

3 nights in the Berner Oberland...
I'd suggest Wengen! Our favorite place in Switzerland!

As for a rental car... We've driven all the Grossglockner and most of the passes in the Dolomites in a 1.4 litre car with a 5 speed. It wasn't the fastest way to climb the passes, but we had no trouble at all.

Paul

Wow, great advice - thanks to everyone!

I will have to digest this and now get to the nitty gritty of "which roads". Ingo, thanks for the tips - good idea, I'm cutting Chamonix as a two day stop - one more day in Varenna sounds great to me! I'll figure out where to add the extra day. If we have time we can always make it a day trip.

PJA, what a wealth of info!

If you wind up with an extra day, perhaps spend it between the Dolomites and Switzerland. In the Vinchgau/Val Venosta, we can highly recommend

www.hotel-panorama-mals.it

Time could be spent visiting Churburg Castle, Glurns/Glorenzo, which is, I believe, the smallest walled medieval town in Europe and the general area.

Paul

Bookmarking to comment later. And now I'm really thinking I'd better post my Alps trip report...or else I'm going to write it all in your thread!

Hausfrau, I'd love to hear it!

PJA, thanks again.

I haven't narrowed down routes quite yet and when I do, I'll post back. I also need to think of backup routes in case we get socked in and can't do the higher stuff.

I'm now thinking, timewise:

2 nights Munich
1 night Zell am See, before the Grossglockner.
3 nights Dolomites (will visit Heiligenblut, with the extra daylight we can make the Castelrotto (?) area before dark I think...)
Stelvio Pass experience
3 or 4 nights in Varenna (Lake Como)
Grand St. Bernard pass, on the way to Vevey (or environs, not sure where yet).
1 or maybe 2 nights Vevey
3 nights in the Berner Oberland
Last night in Munich.

I'm thinking I might be able to be flexible on timing and not reserve every single night ahead of time - although in Varenna we have to stay at the Eremo Gaudio again, it was magnificent.

Hi Flygirl - Only 3 nights in the Dolomites? . You'll wish you were there for a week ...

Best passes? From Cortina don't miss Falzarego, Valparola, Gardena, Sella ... to name a few.

I'm not sure you'd make Castelrotto before dark from Grossglockner without rushing too much - and missing some of the highlights.

If you are driving through Dobbiaco, for example, don't miss a detour to Lake Braies - the most beautiful lake in Italy IMO.

Are you planning basing in Castelrotto for 3 nights - or moving on each day?

Personally I'd probably choose somewhere more central to base - e.g. Alta Badia (- e.g. San Cassiano or Colfosco) or Val Gardena (- e.g. Selva or Ortisei).

You will be there in early season - so few of the lifts will be open unfortunately. But one or two will be open - possibly Lagazuoi (-Falzarego Pass), Sass Pordoi (-Pordoi Pass), Alpe di Siusi (- Siusi). Don't miss them ...

You will have no problem finding hotels/B&B's so early in the season ...

Steve

Thanks Steve!

We plan to stay in one place in the Dolomites, for three nights, and do day trips in the area. i.e. possibly backtrack what we missed to get to the B&B.

I might have to YET change the plans - Eremo Gaudio emailed me to tell me that the 4 nights they have rooms available in the upper hotel are two days later than I had wanted them. This adds two days to the drive before Lake Como, and subtracts it from the other end. This is not to say we couldn't stay in a lower room for two nights and move, if they are amenable.

The good news is, I'm contracting the plans somewhat - I'm now even debating a two night stay in Vevey given that we will have just left Lake Como. I have been to both and think they are both grand - I guess it will be drive/sightseeing dependent. If we cut two days there, then we can add that to the Dolomites. For instance. So instead of a day or two days here and there this may become 4 nights here and there.

Have you cut the stay in Engadin? Whoa!

I doubt you'll make it from Castelrotto via Stelvio Pass to Varenna in one day without missing the best along the way. Also, I am not sure at all if you can drive the Stelvio in late May/early June.

I think it is closed till end of May. And even in summer there are many days when it is snowing at that altitude. It's not a summer skiing area for nothing!