My 9 day 25 yr anniversary trip ended miserably
Oct 29th, 2006, 06:24 PM
#81
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nina66, OReilly, and PM I have re-read your responses many times over. You don't know how much I appreciate your comments. You captured my feelings and guilt and have made me feel much better. Thank you!
Oct 29th, 2006, 06:49 PM
#84
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why did you carry all that valuable stuff in your wallet and not at least split it up and/or use a money belt?
Let's hope somebody else will eventually nail that jerk thief with a beer bottle across the head.
Let's hope somebody else will eventually nail that jerk thief with a beer bottle across the head.
Oct 29th, 2006, 06:58 PM
#86
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joram -- I'm very glad you're O.K. and I'm sure that the good memories and great pictures you have of this trip will eventually outweigh the shock of what happened.
Happy Anniversary to you both -- you sound like a great couple. I only hope I'll be as vibrant as you both sound, and lucky enough to be traveling with someone after being together 25 yrs.
Happy Anniversary to you both -- you sound like a great couple. I only hope I'll be as vibrant as you both sound, and lucky enough to be traveling with someone after being together 25 yrs.
Oct 29th, 2006, 07:29 PM
#88
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Fortunately, my wife our passports were not in my wallet."
The operative sentence here-never carry your passports around with you in Europe -I too, had my wallet stolen over a decade ago in Paris, in Chatelet metro, and this last trip, several weeks ago, a young woman made a feeble attempt to take my bag off my shoulder in a metro stop around the 1st arr-I believe. I had only one credit card and little money in the purse, had she been successful, and of course no passport with me.
Carry your Driver's License, and leave your PP in the hotel safe-it can be used for nearly all requests for Govt. ID in Europe-and if it gets stolen, it takes about 5 minutes for the DMV to print another once you get home-not so when you get your passport lost/stolen overseas.
Sorry about your most unfortunate situation and ending to your trip, Joram, but I can sympathise, based on my own experience, in a way.
The operative sentence here-never carry your passports around with you in Europe -I too, had my wallet stolen over a decade ago in Paris, in Chatelet metro, and this last trip, several weeks ago, a young woman made a feeble attempt to take my bag off my shoulder in a metro stop around the 1st arr-I believe. I had only one credit card and little money in the purse, had she been successful, and of course no passport with me.
Carry your Driver's License, and leave your PP in the hotel safe-it can be used for nearly all requests for Govt. ID in Europe-and if it gets stolen, it takes about 5 minutes for the DMV to print another once you get home-not so when you get your passport lost/stolen overseas.
Sorry about your most unfortunate situation and ending to your trip, Joram, but I can sympathise, based on my own experience, in a way.
Oct 29th, 2006, 08:37 PM
#89
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 45,322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just got home a bit ago joram and so just read your description of what happened to you in Paris. I can only say that I agree with all of the posters here that are assuring you that your dear wife is so relieved that you were not injured of killed. All kind of documentations can be replaced even if it is a pain in the neck but joram a dear husband cannot be replaced. Best regards!
Oct 29th, 2006, 09:28 PM
#90
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
joram,
While I usually don’t get involved in these discussion you seem very sincere and terribly upset with your reactions, so I will ask you to think the matter through. You are upset that your first reaction was not to lash out when things went wrong. If that was your personality do you think that your wife would have married you? Does she like to be battered? How many fights in bars do you think it would take to end up in jail? Dead?
So you are a civilized man that cares for his wife and got to take her to Paris. Live with it. Hopefully the man that preyed upon you will end up in hell, close to the fire, with a very short poker.
While I usually don’t get involved in these discussion you seem very sincere and terribly upset with your reactions, so I will ask you to think the matter through. You are upset that your first reaction was not to lash out when things went wrong. If that was your personality do you think that your wife would have married you? Does she like to be battered? How many fights in bars do you think it would take to end up in jail? Dead?
So you are a civilized man that cares for his wife and got to take her to Paris. Live with it. Hopefully the man that preyed upon you will end up in hell, close to the fire, with a very short poker.
Oct 30th, 2006, 05:23 AM
#94
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks to everyone for the support. You are a fine group of folks. We've been home for over a week. Although our adventure continued in Houston without money, our daughter helped us out. I wish I could say that I don't re-live the experience nightly---although with a different ending each time based on what I could have done and his reactions. I'm sure it will go away in time. Some of my wife's immediate comments find their way into the picture as well---like "we're just hard-working, honest, people trying enjoy our lives, etc. etc." I know I shouldn't dwell on it but it's hard not to feel guilt. It has helped to have your positive comments. thanks again. I'll be fine.
Oct 30th, 2006, 06:15 AM
#95
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"we're just hard-working, honest, people trying enjoy our lives, etc. etc." I hope your wife doesn't feel like you two are victims. It was one man and you that were tussling.
Maybe you both should talk this over with a counselor or clergyman, it sounds like this isolated incident is taking large proportion of your lives now.
My husband got physically attacked at the airport in Egypt and when he told the story he laughed that the guy ran away, it is all how you look at it since you or your wife weren't injured.
Sincerely, SU
Maybe you both should talk this over with a counselor or clergyman, it sounds like this isolated incident is taking large proportion of your lives now.
My husband got physically attacked at the airport in Egypt and when he told the story he laughed that the guy ran away, it is all how you look at it since you or your wife weren't injured.
Sincerely, SU
Oct 30th, 2006, 06:25 AM
#96
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 23,404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joram you sound like a great person and I join with the others in saying how sorry I am that this happened. As far as the obsessive thoughts: They WILL go away eventually, although talking to someone about this such as a clergy person or therapist might hasten that.
I was robbed with a weapon in Italy last year and I, too, replayed the reel over and over again in my head, wondering what I could have done (hit the guy over the head with the statue, etc etc) Endlesslly. Over and over. Essentially blaming myself. With time the thoughts will diminish. Try to focus on the good times you had..after all those few minutes were only a small part of the trip. Try not to give this guy any more attention than he deserves..that is, do not let him rob you of your peace of mind. Try to remember that when you have the thoughts...."he is not going to harm me even more now that I am home..I am not going to give him any more attention, etc etc." I hope you understand all of this..I just got home myself from France and am a bit jet lagged but wanted you to know that we understand. You did all you could and more. Take care.
I was robbed with a weapon in Italy last year and I, too, replayed the reel over and over again in my head, wondering what I could have done (hit the guy over the head with the statue, etc etc) Endlesslly. Over and over. Essentially blaming myself. With time the thoughts will diminish. Try to focus on the good times you had..after all those few minutes were only a small part of the trip. Try not to give this guy any more attention than he deserves..that is, do not let him rob you of your peace of mind. Try to remember that when you have the thoughts...."he is not going to harm me even more now that I am home..I am not going to give him any more attention, etc etc." I hope you understand all of this..I just got home myself from France and am a bit jet lagged but wanted you to know that we understand. You did all you could and more. Take care.
Oct 30th, 2006, 06:39 AM
#97
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
joram
First, may I commend you for having the courage to tell your whole story. It is not easy to relate events that reveal our vulnerabilities and weaknesses. I also take my hat off to you for keeping the thief from 'stealing' such enjoyment as remained to you, by keeping on, as far as you could, with your holiday.
You seem to be particularly upset over the thief's method, that is to say, his being able to physically intimidate you as he relieved you of your wallet. Given your past history as a boxer, I can see how tempting it is for you to harbour the illusion that you should have had more control over events. However, from where I sit, that's exactly what your belief is - an illusion. Having the physical ability to stop a physical confrontation won't help one in 90 per cent of thefts, since most thieves would have removed your wallet passively, without your knowledge. If you peruse this board, you'll hear countless accounts of how people were only able to figure out, after the fact, that that seemingly innocuous jostle on the metro, say, or bump in the crowd at the Eiffel tower, was actually an event of far greater significance than they appreciated at the time. In your case, you were aware of the theft as it occurred, which gives you the teasing illusion that you 'should' have been able to stop it.
I'd say you had a probability of being able to stop it, perhaps even a better probability of being able to stop it than someone such as myself, but that is all you had, a probability, not a certainty. Even a ninety per cent chance that you could have succeeded does not eliminate the ten per cent chance of failure, just as even a remote chance that one will be struck by lightning does not make it impossible.
One thing that needs to be pointed out is that thieves likely don't know the location of our hotels; for all your assailant knew, you were 25 miles from your hotel, as opposed to 25 feet. Even if he knew, such information would likely have made him more rather than less likely to attack. <b> It is the business of thieves to understand human nature, to know that we tend to be more off-guard when we are close to 'home' or when we are relaxed, having a good time. </b> Seen this way, the closer one is to one's hotel, the MORE important it is to make it more difficult for the thief, say by wearing a moneybelt. Again, it was the thief's expertise in human nature, more than his expertise in physical confrontation, that made his attack successful. So, stop beating yourself up about failing to beat him up.
I do empathize with your wife's shock that good people should have been struck like this. But then, innocence is no guarantee of justice, just look at the kids dying of leukemia, they, like you, didn't get the fate they deserved. Life sucks at times, but if it didn't, would we ever really know the joys it brings as well?
First, may I commend you for having the courage to tell your whole story. It is not easy to relate events that reveal our vulnerabilities and weaknesses. I also take my hat off to you for keeping the thief from 'stealing' such enjoyment as remained to you, by keeping on, as far as you could, with your holiday.
You seem to be particularly upset over the thief's method, that is to say, his being able to physically intimidate you as he relieved you of your wallet. Given your past history as a boxer, I can see how tempting it is for you to harbour the illusion that you should have had more control over events. However, from where I sit, that's exactly what your belief is - an illusion. Having the physical ability to stop a physical confrontation won't help one in 90 per cent of thefts, since most thieves would have removed your wallet passively, without your knowledge. If you peruse this board, you'll hear countless accounts of how people were only able to figure out, after the fact, that that seemingly innocuous jostle on the metro, say, or bump in the crowd at the Eiffel tower, was actually an event of far greater significance than they appreciated at the time. In your case, you were aware of the theft as it occurred, which gives you the teasing illusion that you 'should' have been able to stop it.
I'd say you had a probability of being able to stop it, perhaps even a better probability of being able to stop it than someone such as myself, but that is all you had, a probability, not a certainty. Even a ninety per cent chance that you could have succeeded does not eliminate the ten per cent chance of failure, just as even a remote chance that one will be struck by lightning does not make it impossible.
One thing that needs to be pointed out is that thieves likely don't know the location of our hotels; for all your assailant knew, you were 25 miles from your hotel, as opposed to 25 feet. Even if he knew, such information would likely have made him more rather than less likely to attack. <b> It is the business of thieves to understand human nature, to know that we tend to be more off-guard when we are close to 'home' or when we are relaxed, having a good time. </b> Seen this way, the closer one is to one's hotel, the MORE important it is to make it more difficult for the thief, say by wearing a moneybelt. Again, it was the thief's expertise in human nature, more than his expertise in physical confrontation, that made his attack successful. So, stop beating yourself up about failing to beat him up.
I do empathize with your wife's shock that good people should have been struck like this. But then, innocence is no guarantee of justice, just look at the kids dying of leukemia, they, like you, didn't get the fate they deserved. Life sucks at times, but if it didn't, would we ever really know the joys it brings as well?
Oct 30th, 2006, 07:54 AM
#100
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sue - what a fine summation of joram's situation and feelings.
As my mother used to say, 'what goes around, comes around'. Someday this thief will get his, whether from the police or from a victim who does have 'the killer instinct', he will get his.
Yes, you are hard working people, now you will have to work a little harder to get past this horrible incident.
Do talk to someone as suggested above. It is not YOU .... it is HIM. You were in the right place at the wrong time ... that is all you are guilty of.
There will be an end to your nightmares, a happy end, one filled with more travel and a good life with your family - you did the right thing - you preserved that family.
Nina
As my mother used to say, 'what goes around, comes around'. Someday this thief will get his, whether from the police or from a victim who does have 'the killer instinct', he will get his.
Yes, you are hard working people, now you will have to work a little harder to get past this horrible incident.
Do talk to someone as suggested above. It is not YOU .... it is HIM. You were in the right place at the wrong time ... that is all you are guilty of.
There will be an end to your nightmares, a happy end, one filled with more travel and a good life with your family - you did the right thing - you preserved that family.
Nina
