Babaldas

Your comments and experience would be most appreciated: Do you think Paris is for the most part open to mixed-race/inter-ethnic couples? I am wondering after reading the very interesting travelog of another poster, in which he shared this:
"On the way we stopped at a small cafe, for coffee, and observed a waiter get into a shouting match with a pretty young woman who was tring to place an order for herself and what appeared to be her child. It appeared that the waiter did not want to serve the child who was of mixed race. The young woman left with her child, both in tears, and so did we. This was the only unsavory experence of the trip."

My husband and I are traveling to Paris this Christmas and I don't want an incident such as the above to put a damper on our trip. Do you think the above was more likely an anomaly, or a fair representation of how mixed-race people and/or couples can expect to be treated in Paris? Can anyone advise which areas of Paris might be more liberal and accepting - this may dictate where we decide to book a hotel, eat many of our meals, etc.?

I appreciate your well-traveled words of wisdom. My husband and I have traveled together without negative incident of this sort in China, Mexico and the Caribbean. We have encountered several negative incidents of this sort in our travels in the US, however, and it does dampen our spirits, no matter how much we try to enjoy the place we are visiting anyway. Neither of us has been to Paris before, separately or together. I am hoping you will all tell me that Paris is (by and large) a modern and diverse metropolis and that we most likely will not encounter such difficulties... Thanks for your insights.

Nikki

I also read that comment about the waiter and was very surprised to see it. My observations in Paris indicate that there are many mixed race couples and that Paris appears to be a very open environment.

Florence

Bonjour Babaldas,

Refusing to serve someone on the basis of their ethnicity/race/color/religious affiliation is against the law in France, and the waiter could get into severe trouble should the lady in question decide to sue.

I am therefore very surprised by this story, especially since mixed couples are very common in Paris, unlike when I was born from an African father and French mother. I must say that I don't remember ever being treated badly when I was a child, and that most people in France find such children cute (and I was the cutest of them all - doesn't time fly ;-)).

RobynFrance

Relax--there are far more mixed couples in France and while I have no idea about the story you describe, you will not be noticed for that in Paris.

AllyPally

Hi Babaldas - this reminds of a lovely family I watched eating in Paris during last summer. My father, my boyfriend and I were watching this family because they were so beautiful to look at, were very happy - all 3 generations eating happily- and we were intrigued because we could not place their ethnicity. It was clear, however, that one half was Afro, the other was Polynesian/Asian. Boy, did they produce some beautiful children! The grandfather may well have been of Chinese origin but I'm not sure. All I know is that they represented the modern family to me.

There is racism in Paris, no doubt. However, France has a lot of famous people who are of mixed race/ethnic backgrounds: Isabella Adjani, Jean Reno, Yannick Noah, Mathilda May, etc..

I do not believe that you will have a problem at all in Paris. I live in London and mixed race couples are not only common but are a fact of life. It really saddens me that anyone would torment people for who they love!

I was in Germany this weekend and noticed how non-whites are really underrepresented in advertising there. To me, it seemed odd. It really made me appreciate how multi cultural London (and indeed Paris) really are!!

Btw, I think it's either Newsweek or Time but the cover story is The World's Most Beautiful Face. I read about her -she is a Canadian model with a caucasian mother and a Punjabi father. She could be Indian, Spanish, Italian, etc and she is comfortable with that. It was very heartening to read that things are changing, if slowly.

I hope you go to Paris. Please don't let that story put you off. It is a fantastically romantic city. Do your research, plan well, get some good food tips from this forum and you'll be set!

AP

janis

". . . . herself and what appeared to be her child. It appeared that the waiter did not want to serve the child who was of mixed race"

Talk about jumping to conclusions. This person obviously has no idea what the shouting match was about. The waiter and woman could have been shouting about anything - maybe she had been there before, maybe outside seats were reserved at that time, maybe, maybe, maybe . . . .

Just because the child "appeared" of mixed race, and the waiter "appeared" not to want to serve the child because of it. Appearances can be deceiving.

There are so many races and mixed race people in Paris this whole story smells . . . .

ira

Hi,

I have reread the report to which you refer. Please note that the writer admitted to having a very poor command of French. She is concluding that the argument was about the race of the child.

I would not give her conclusion much credence.

It is unlikely that a mixed-race couple would have a problem in Paris, unless you are Jewish. In that case stay away from Arab neighborhoods.

Christina

I'm sure you will find bigotry in any place in the world, so if you limit your travels to cities where you don't ever expect anyone to look askance at a mixed race couple, you will need to stay home. That is the fact, although Paris is a cosmopolitan city and has no serious problems in that regard that I've notice. I have sat next to mixed race couples at restaurants and they were served and treated like anyone else.

I think you would do better to not pick out one isolated minor comment from one trip report on here from someone who did not know French and was speculating as to what the whole thing was about. I read that report and the author didn't know what the situation was but decided to put that spin on it. She (I think) did not know French, did not even know if that was the person's child and had no idea what the situation was or the argument. If you want to avoid a city where you will never encounter a possible quarrel or abrupt words between waiters and clients, you had better not go to Paris, though (or any major city). I've observed scenes that could be described like that between all white patrons who were French in French cafes because of some disagreement over prices, the menu, etc.

It is possible the person wanted to order something not on the menu, wanted something free, who knows. Maybe the waiter did get mad at her for something and shouted but gosh, you will be in a sheltered world if you never see waiters shout.

Babaldas

Thank you for your responses. I agree with those who are saying that we can't at all know what really happened in this one restaurant incident reported by a third party observer who did not have command of French. It was just that that anecdote triggered the question in my mind. I realize that there are no absolutes, but was just looking for an overall sense of how open Paris seems to be about this issue. It won't at all change our mind about whether to go - Paris is something we've not yet experienced and very much want to. I just like to know what I'm in for, as somehow I am still not jaded enough to not be shocked when we are treated badly because we are a mixed couple.
From what most of you have said, it sounds like this is as likely to be or not be a problem in Paris as in any other major world city, which is all I was hoping to hear. Thank you!

easytraveler

Hello, Balbaldas!

First a word of explanation: I am from California where multi-diversity is very much present.

Nevertheless, this summer when I was in Paris Chinatown, I was starring at the HUGE diversity that I encountered in just a few blocks: people from North Africa - Arabs, Ethiopians, people from Middle Africa, a lot of Arabic speaking people from the Middle East,...so many Chinese dialects that I couldn't understand some of them!...and, last but not least, local Parisians who were also shopping...everyone was just busily shopping and eating and gabbing.

The whole scene reminded me of some medieval town at a trade crossroutes!

Don't worry! Go and have a great time! The Parisians are gracious and cosmopolitan!

easytraveler

JaneS

Babaldas-
My husband (then boyfriend) and I went to Paris together about 3 years ago. I am Asian-American and he is Caucasian. We had absolutely no issues or difficulties. In fact, Paris is one of my favorite cities and I find Parisians to be very open, friendly, and helpful. I don't think you have anything to worry about. I hope you have a wonderful time with your husband- it is such a beautiful and romantic city- it will not let you down!
Jane

Scarlett

I saw that too and was shocked, since we have been in Paris many times and have never ever seen anything like that incident. Perhaps they were arguing about something else, and the poster attributed his own theory to the reason.
Travel on a Metro and you will see all sorts of ethnicities, no one looks at anyone askance.
Remember, Paris loved/loves Jazz and Josephine Baker and James Baldwin, Nina Simone
It is like NYC or London, every sort of mix you could ask for..

klondike

The French are quite open minded by comparison to some other countries, though racists can be found in any country. I wouldn't give it another thought.

While were on the topic of ethnic diversity, though, where are by arrondissements the various neighborhoods for different cultures (Arab, Chinese, Vietnamese, Jewish and African)? This is going to sound ignorant, but are they all as safe as central Paris any time of the day, or are some best avoided at night? It might be interesting to visit, but I don't want to get in over my head.

martytravels

From my observations, mixed race couples in Paris (and in most other big European cities) draw absolutely no attention, UNLIKE here in the States where stares are common.

ThinGorjus

I was at the cafe when the waiter was having the spat with the woman whose child was of mixed race. They weren't arguing over the child at all. The woman was a Yank and she wanted to split her entree. She also asked for ice with her Bordeaux.

RufusTFirefly

As the number of minorities rises in France and other European countries, so does racism. But, as in most other places, the jerks are a minority.

mcv1105

When I described the interaction in question, I was reporting what I saw. We had stopped at a sidewalk cafe, to have coffee, and while waiting for service, we observed an interaction between a waiter and a young lady who had a child with her.

The interaction lasted several minutes. We observed the young lady attempt to get the waiters attention several times, but the waiter appeared to be ignoring her. Other patrons also observed the interaction and one of them (a local businessman) commented to the waiter while being waited upon. The waiter then rolled his eyes and turned to the young lady and yelled at her. The young lady and child began to cry and then left the cafe without being served.

I turned to the other patron who had spoken to the waiter and asked him "what was that about", and he replied, "the child". At that point he got up to leave, without actually being served, and so did we.

Its true I don't know the details of their conversation and this may have been a situation where the waiter was the childs father and he was refusing to pay child support, but his actions resulted in the tears of the child, who was an innocent in this whole situation.

I will also remark that many other patrons were upset with the waiter and some of them made some "interesting observations" that were directed at the waiter. Several of them expressed to us that the waiters behavoir was unacceptable and many left at the same time we did.

I will also remark that throughout all the time I spent in Paris, this was the only incident of this nature I observed, and that everywhere else we went friendly interactions between all peoples were the norm.

Scarlett

Yes, but 'what about the child?
How does anyone know it was not his girlfriend and child, his sister and child?
How do you know it was about "mixed race"?

hansikday

Could it be that certain cafes in France do not want to serve patrons with small children? I assume some cafes are much more family friendly than others. Or maybe the woman and child had caused problems before at that cafe?

Koshka

Perhaps children were not allowed at the restaurant? Perhaps the child did not have a jacket and tie??

At any rate, Babaldas, by all means go and enjoy one of the most beautiful cities on Earth. There are idiots everywhere; don't let them make you uncomfortable.