suze

Although I can understand the disappointment in having to pay more money than planned, I do not think anyone "gouged" anyone. I am willing to bet if you read all that fine fine print that comes when you purchase airline tickets, that this was handled to the letter. Accept that they probably *could* have tacked on that additional $200 per ticket change fee mentioned, but not applied.

Gretchen

No, airlines cannot "cut some kind of slack" when there are weather delays. They are GRADED on ontime performance and it is VERY important. IF they can leave on time, then they do it. Several years ago I will say we benefitted from them granting some slack. We were leaving from Atlanta for Russia--a group of maybe 30. There was mechanical trouble and we were delayed for an hour or more for new equipment. They did hold the plane in NYC, undoubtedly because there wasn't another flight that could handle that number. We profusely thanked some very scowling onboard passengers when we boarded.

suze

Sheez this is frustrating (this thread) but it is really not that complicated to understand... If it is due to mechanical problems or something the carrier has control over, then it IS the airline's responsbility to remedy the situation at no cost to the ticketholder. If it is due to the weather, "acts of god", or you not boarding your plane in a timely manner, then is is NOT their responsibility. With weather delays it is my understanding that their obligation is to get you on the next available flight, but for your ticket to remain valid you need to be available and on that flight.

yipper

I feel very bad that you had to buy other tickets through no fault of your own. I have sympathy for you, even if others do not. I always think "There but for the grace of god, go I". Your contribution here is that you have educated me and I will remember to book all my connecting flights on the same airline or together or whatever the correct term is. Anyway thank you.

LoveItaly

Yipper, yes I agree "there but for the grace of God go I". What you want to do is have one ticket from your take off to your final desination. I still think calling the airlines of your choice and having them book you (even if it cost $10.00 or so to do this) is money well spent. Airlines are not making any exceptions anymore thanks to their financial problems.

blithespirit

No, Clevelandandbrown, my final cost to fly RT from NY-Italy was $1834 pp, not $1100.

I thought this thread would die a natural death, but when I checked this AM, I see it is a slow, lingering one.

I originally figured it would cost me $930 pp to fly to Italy - a reasonable summer fare. When I missed my flight in August, Air France charged me $1834 for a new ticket. Given a credit of $750 for the old ticket, I paid an additional $1100. I ate the $180 tax on the old ticket and was additional tax was included in the new. Whatever...

I apologize to Flyboy. Your grouping me with people who "will choose a very low frequency carrier with very thin customer service capabilities (often simply contracted out) because they got a really cheap ticket" seemed to imply that cheapness had its own rewards. However, I wouldn't consider Jet Blue in the above category. Personallly I think they are state-of-the-art in the airline industry, though the major carriers won't admit it.

And I'm sorry, NatalieM, for the way my situation seemed to take over your legitimate inquiry about discount fares. Just don't do what I naively and ignorantly did -- buy separate tickets and think 3 hours is enough to make a connection and think the airlines will give you any kind of break. Silly me...

Over and out... Blithespirit.

cmeyer54

This not only happens when a connecting flight is missed - in one case, a neighbor had to change flights due to her father's death. they had direct flights to Honolulu to see the father-in-law and ended up routing via Omaha due to the death/funeral. Not only did they end up with 2 or 3 stops, extreme number of searches (just after 9-11) with the last minute changes, but they also got docked the full fare from the rerouted tickets. American was sympathetic to the situation but not willing to be flexible. Guess bereavement fares dont' count if you already have tickets booked elsewhere!

OaktownTraveler

Blithespirit:

SO sorry that this happened...I try my best to fly out of Oakland too.

Would it have been possible to fly the following day at a reduced cost?

I know you signed out so maybe some of the contributors to this thread who know waaay more than I do about this can respond.

I have seriously learned alot from this thread. Thanks to all who responded.

Sue_xx_yy

The thread on discount airlines blithespirit mentioned can be found at
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34533383

As I said on that thread, I really am grateful to blithespirit for raising this issue. Had she not, I would never have re-examined my belief that booking a through ticket with airlines belonging to the same alliance provides any benefits over and above booking a through ticket irrespective of alliances. I too am learning all the time.

So I am somewhat hesitant to attempt an answer to your question, Oaktown, but here goes:

To the extent that I understand how airlines set their prices, the probability of booking a relatively cheaper ticket increases with the sample size of flights one is willing to consider booking. Thus, the further into the future one is willing to consider departing, the more likely one will find a flight on which seats in lower category fares will still be available. Here's the hard part: this is only a matter of probability. Should a consumer be willing to depart the next day, as per your query, this would of course increase the sample size of possible flights, but only slightly. However, just because an event has a higher probability of happening, doesn't mean that that event will happen. Just as leaving a long connection time between flights decreases one's probability of missing the next flight, but doesn't guarantee one won't miss it.

So, the short answer to your question is, 'maybe' - which doesn't help much, I admit.


Regarding connection times, this seems as good a time as any to point out that they aren't guaranteed because schedules can change. If one or more of the airlines involved changes their schedule to the point one couldn't make the connection originally planned, the itinerary would have to be altered; only in the event that one held a through ticket originally could one do this without charge. Whereas consumers who bought two tickets could be out of luck.

Last time out, we booked an itinerary on two separate tickets. I had no sooner booked the tickets, then BA moved up their departure from LGW to Venice by 2 hours. As we were overnighting in Gatwick, this change didn't cause us any difficulty. But had we left a 'window' of only 3 hours, this window would have shrunk to 1 hour. (It could, of course, have gone the other way - the schedule could have been moved BACK by 2 hours, thereby increasing the connection time window. The point is, since schedules can change, connection times aren't guaranteed, and this is another hazard to be navigated if you choose to book on two separate tickets.

111op

I came to this thread a bit late and I've not read the responses very carefully. I also had to buy a new ticket once, also with AF, and I was out about $300. It's not as bad as your $6500, but I certainly sympathize with you.

In my case, it wasn't a connection. I arrived too late in CDG for a flight for Berlin last year. Checkin had closed. After a couple of run-arounds, it appeared to me that they could have done something, but they chose to do nothing. I had no bags to check at all, and they refused to issue a boarding card, claiming that I had to check in 30 minutes prior. I can tell you that this is not true, as on my return flight from Berlin to Paris, they were still checking passengers in way past 30 minutes before departure.

Yes, of course, I also wrote them when I came back, but to no avail.

I try to avoid AF from now on. I understand that they're not a charity, but they seem to be especially inflexible. Of course, the trouble with air travel is that the airlines are basically all interchangeable, so it's impossible to blacklist everyone. Delta seemed very incompetent on my flight from NYC to Frankfurt as well -- I've not flown them in many years. They really seemed to have hit the dumps.

OaktownTraveler

Sue:

You ROCK! Thanks...Sure,I thought that "might" be the case...laugh!

You are very well spoken. I wish my post-graduate school statistics professor would have been YOU!

That aside and for a little Monday Morning Quarterbacking...I would have calculated those next day...or day after "cheaper" flight "odds", enjoyed NYC for a day or two...storm and all and then went abroad with more money on my credit card!

Again...I am SO sad that this happened..

I think Blithespirit is a male...I assumed Blithespirit to be male cause...NOBODY's husband would let them spend that kind of money...on the spot...after all that airport drama... and be "Happy Tourist Walking".

My husband would have had us on the Amtrack or Greyhound back to California.

LoveItaly

OaktownTraveler. If I remember the original post, blithespirit is a widow. She took her family with her for the trip. Somewhere in one of her postings she commented something to the effect "where was her late husband when they needed him". I do not know which thread this was written on but I do remember reading this and cringing for her.

repete

When Blithe was talking about slack, I got the impression she was talking about the charges and not anything affecting departure time.

And I'm sure this will upset all the sticklers and I know all the rules, but I think Air France should have offered some options such as the chance to buy those tickets or take a chance on stand-by with a lesser penalty.

If they had seats available on the later flight, why not just charge a nominal penalty and let them go?

If I were BlitheS, I'd never fly AF again -- and after reading this post, I'll weigh this when I look at my next flight over and have AF as an option.

We had a somewhat similar situation last month.

I'd flown Virgin to LHR and connected on Alitalia to Athens for a month over the Olympics. I was looking for an economical way to get my wife and son to Athens for the last week of the Games and 10 days in the island with a quick stop in London on the way back. My fare didn't matter that much (it was still $960 RT during peak time) because it was on the company (most paid about 1,400 from IAD), but I first found a $290 LHR to ATH trip and then much later paired it with a $277 IAD-LHR for my wife and son.

The downside on the way over was that I built in a six-hour window for them at LHR when a two-hour break would have worked.

The problem came on the return. Ferries in the Cyclades were suspended by wind for nearly two days. Instead of arriving Monday night for a Tuesday a.m. flight to LHR we finally took a full ferry that got in at 5 a.m. Wednesday.

Alitalia got us on a nearly full 6:45 a.m. flight to Milan and onto to LHR. There were no adjustments in fares and no hassles or begging involved. We missed our day and night in London, but easily made our mid-afternoon connections home.

So we've got good feelings about the oft-maligned Alitalia and I'm still wondering what Virgin (my flight) and United (family's flight) would have done out of LHR. I'm glad I didn't have to find out.

Clifton

First, Blithespirit, if you're still reading - sorry for your bad luck in getting to JFK in time to complete the contract. The $6500 makes me grimace every time I read it.

Maybe I can learn something here too. Sue, you said that you learned that there was no advantage to the Alliance system (I read the other thread too). And I guess there isn't, from the perspective of getting more or less consideration for connections or baggage from a AA to BA ticket than from a AA to CO one. A single ticket is a single ticket.

So is/was that the only advantage to these big marketing alliances? It always seemed to me that the codeshares, FF program interaction on these codeshares and such were suppose to add some value. Anything to that, really? I mean, in reality.

rkkwan

There are real benefits of the alliances to the consumer. One, people can spend their FF miles on all the partners airlines with a much wider scope than before there were alliances. [Though earning the miles is a different story, as many deep discount fares won't earn your any miles on many partners' FF programs.]

Another is the benefit of "elite" members. They can use the first/business/elite check-in lines of most of the alliance's airlines. Similarly, airport lounge members can use the lounges of partner airlines.

As you can see, these benefits are mostly for those who fly a lot. For those who fly infrequently and who usually have too few miles to claim, there are few benefits.

blithespirit

As a follow-up, I thought you might be interested in an e-mail reply I received today from expedia.com with whom I originally booked my Air France NY-Italy tickets. I inquired because I'd re-read their Rules and Regulations regarding tickets - "Published airfare tickets are nonrefundable but may, depending on the individual airline's rules and regulations applicable to that airfare, be used for travel by the original ticket holder on the same airline at a later date, subject to an airline change fee of at least $100 per person." -- This was the notion I falsely believed.


"We are sorry to hear that you have experinced such inconvenience during your trip. I would like to explain though that what Air France has offered you was an option basically to use the credit for that segment of your trip rather than just losing the value of the money you paid for in that specific flight. However your flight was an international flight so any change that you make on the original set of ticket since it was processed at the counter is subject to a $200 change fee plus any increase in the fare for that new flight. Apparently one possible reason also for such increase in fare was the ticket for that next flight leaving was also processed on the day itself which even makes the price of the ticket more expensive.

I understand this was something that was beyond your control that your first flight was delayed due to weather conditions but apparently airlines had you on a flight which was leaving at a time when it was already safe to fly for safety of passengers which gave you not enough time to catch the next flight out. Apparently you were also given an option as a courtesy by the airline because they had you on the next flight out and just gave you credit for that flight which was applied to that new flight because normally with Air France they do not allow changes on the outbound flight."

Whatever...

I enjoyed Repete's sweet post, "If they had seats available on the later flight, why not just charge a nominal penalty and let them go?" Thanks, Repete.

HappyCheesehead

Blithespirit:

I also thank you for for the education that I was provided by this thread. I am flying on a FF ticket to Italy, but have to arrange my own transport to and from Croatia, as that is my true destination (but my carrier does not go there). I will not book the flight to or from Croatia on the same day I arrive/ leave from Rome only because I just learned so much right here in this thread. I am sorry for your terrible experience, but I appreciate the time that you and other posters have taken to explain some of the finer points of travel today.

WillTravel

I recently read an account of a similar story on Flyertalk. The company controller had purchased the poster a two-ticket itinerary with the second ticket on Air France because it would save so much money, but did not leave enough time to make the connection. The person then had to buy a same-day, full-fare ticket for 1400 pounds (and no credit from the sounds of it). The fortunate thing in that case was that his company had to pay.

United is perhaps the best airline for this sort of thing to happen with, from what I can understand, because of their same-day standby policy with no charge.

Plates

I haven't read every reply to this thread so it may have been mentioned already - but my first reaction when I read this was "Oh to have a spare $6,500 to use in this kind of situation!"

blithespirit

Thank you all...
It has been interesting reading the various threads on this post the last few days. While some have been very supportive, others have written correctly that the problem was of my own making - sorry to have been so excruciatingly dense. "80 posts and she still doesn't get it." "what part don't you understand?" Yea, well... It's just that the fine print is getting harder to read these days. And with all those beautiful smiles and "thank you for flying with us" and "we treasure your business" platitudes, I thought the airlines would try to be as helpful as they could. To Air France's credit, they did allow us to continue on our vacation with only a loss of 2 hours.

I acknowledge my former lack of understanding regarding fee structure and airline responsibility - I have learned a lot reading these posts - particularly the critical ones.

For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to be cheap as so many posters accused. I merely wanted to fly out of a more convenient airport and without adding any more connections to my destination. You might find it interesting that the cost of my flight to Italy using Jet Blue to NY actually cost MORE than flying a one ticket itinerary from San Francisco to Italy. So, no, I wasn't trying to be cheap, just trying to avoid the San Francisco airport.

Apparently a lot of fodorites were in the dark about this one ticket thing, though, so I don't feel as bad, and perhaps as LoveItaly wrote, the good that may come of this is that this post has helped others. I'm not a "frequent flyer," but I've traveled quite a bit, usually booking my own stuff on the Internet.

In my many years of traveling, I've only missed 1 flight - when I returned back home for a left-behind suitcase that contained medication, while my husband flew on to Hawaii with the kids. In that situation, Southwest put me on the next flight from Oakland to Los Angeles at no extra charge. I still missed the Hawaii flight out of Los Angeles, but I stayed overnight in Los Angeles using a voucher I didn't even ask for and flew on to Hawaii the next day after paying a $100 fee.

To quote John Wayne, "Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." I guess with this experience, I'm learning more about my limitations.

I DO understand that my 6 tickets were non-tranferable and non-refundable -- how ignorant I was to think that meant I couldn't give them over to "Aunt Millie" and that I couldn't get my money back if I changed my mind about the trip. Now I know they're often unchangeable, too - even with a change fee.

Never did I ever think I would have to buy new tickets at double the price to replace the old. I guess my concept of service needs to be adjusted.

And yes, oaktown, my first thought WAS to retreat home using Greyhound or Amtrak - I mean, geez, $6500 could buy a used car! but I knew we all needed this vacation after a rough couple of years and besides I'd already paid for my hotels abroad.

You're all very kind to hear me out.
Bon Voyage!
(Ms.) Blithespirit