Missed flight, got zapped $6500!
Oct 5th, 2004, 01:24 AM
#21
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About 3 years ago, I booked a flight through Expedia from BWI (Baltimore) to Bordeaux via Gatwick on BA. We were coming from St. Louis. I booked a separate flight from STL to BWI on TWA (when it was still operational). We had a 1 1/2 hr wait at BWI before boarding for Gatwick and we came on time. But we needed to re-check-in at the counter and when we got into the counter (after luggage retrieval), there was a LONNNNG line. We were one of the last, if not the last people on the line for that flight. By the time we got up front, it was 10-15 minutes before take off and they wouldn't let us in anymore. Actually there were 7 of us, including our party of 3 who couldn't board anymore. I refuse to leave until I talked to the SUPERVISOR for options. 3 hours later, we were on the line at Dulles, bound for Heathrow and holding business class upgrade. All 7 of us were bussed from BWI to Dulles by BA.I think the lesson I learned here was to resolve the matter right there and then with a more senior person who has the power to make decisions and/or present you with options. Just my 2 cents.
Oct 5th, 2004, 02:13 AM
#22
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I fail to see how a "travel professional" is going to prevent something like this as was implied above. A "non-travel professional" can do as much by booking tickets on the same carrier, etc.
Oct 5th, 2004, 02:20 AM
#23
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A travel professional would have linked all the legs of the flights together, to help prevent this problem, I believe.
I am a strong proponent of using local travel agents.
--Marv (PS: I am not a travel agent and not related to one either)
Oct 5th, 2004, 05:27 AM
#24
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Marv
Many people still prefer using a travel professional, it's true, but using one isn't necessary to link the legs of an itinerary together.
You do need to understand the alliance system.
Oneworld - BA, AA, Aer lingus, Iberia, and others (which might explain why BA arranged for another poster to get a rebooked Aer Lingus flight);
Star - ACanada, United, US Airways (!), Lufthansa, bmi, and others;
Skyteam - Delta, Continental, Alitalia (status somewhat uncertain as of 9 Sept 04), KLM, Air France, and others;
Discount airlines (Jetblue, Ryanair, etc. - all as far as I know completely independent, no interline agreements even within their own operations!)
You can always call a given airline directly and have them book an itinerary, in the event their website doesn't handle complex itineraries involving their alliance partners. Alternatively, on Expedia, for example, to link the legs together, here's how I'd proceed: select a single trip, albeit a multiple destination itinerary, and then select the legs carefully from airlines known to be partnered; you must also tinker the combinations and permutations so as to minimize the cost. Sometimes Expedia automatically computes such an itinerary for one, but not always. If in doubt, you can always call the Expedia help desk.
While it is true one can sometimes negotiate with desk agent supervisors in the event one's separately ticketed flight arrives too late, the outcome depends on a ton of variables: whether the airline managed to sell the seat one turned up too late to occupy (original flight might have been already overbooked anyway); whether there's space on subsequent flights; the fare category of the original tickets; the FF status of the people involved, etc. etc. It's always worth the attempt to negotiate, obviously, but counting on a happy outcome is dicey, as this sad tale proves.
Many people still prefer using a travel professional, it's true, but using one isn't necessary to link the legs of an itinerary together.
You do need to understand the alliance system.
Oneworld - BA, AA, Aer lingus, Iberia, and others (which might explain why BA arranged for another poster to get a rebooked Aer Lingus flight);
Star - ACanada, United, US Airways (!), Lufthansa, bmi, and others;
Skyteam - Delta, Continental, Alitalia (status somewhat uncertain as of 9 Sept 04), KLM, Air France, and others;
Discount airlines (Jetblue, Ryanair, etc. - all as far as I know completely independent, no interline agreements even within their own operations!)
You can always call a given airline directly and have them book an itinerary, in the event their website doesn't handle complex itineraries involving their alliance partners. Alternatively, on Expedia, for example, to link the legs together, here's how I'd proceed: select a single trip, albeit a multiple destination itinerary, and then select the legs carefully from airlines known to be partnered; you must also tinker the combinations and permutations so as to minimize the cost. Sometimes Expedia automatically computes such an itinerary for one, but not always. If in doubt, you can always call the Expedia help desk.
While it is true one can sometimes negotiate with desk agent supervisors in the event one's separately ticketed flight arrives too late, the outcome depends on a ton of variables: whether the airline managed to sell the seat one turned up too late to occupy (original flight might have been already overbooked anyway); whether there's space on subsequent flights; the fare category of the original tickets; the FF status of the people involved, etc. etc. It's always worth the attempt to negotiate, obviously, but counting on a happy outcome is dicey, as this sad tale proves.
Oct 5th, 2004, 05:48 AM
#25
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"Split-ticketing" is a technique that travel professionals have long used, particularly for international itineraries.
However, it is a case of reward and risk, and everyone who uses this technique (whether self-booking or thorugh a travel agent) should be aware of the consequences.
The reward, of course, is that it is often much cheaper to but separate tickets for different legs of an itinerary than to have a single ticket covering origin to destination.
The risks are well illustrated by this case. Your baggage is not shipped through to destination and you must recheck at the intermediate point. If the first flight is delayed and you miss the second, you are usually completely out of luck, as was the case with the OP.
If the price with split tickets is really good compared to a single one, you may still save money and reduce the risks by staying overnight at the intermediate point.
However, it is a case of reward and risk, and everyone who uses this technique (whether self-booking or thorugh a travel agent) should be aware of the consequences.
The reward, of course, is that it is often much cheaper to but separate tickets for different legs of an itinerary than to have a single ticket covering origin to destination.
The risks are well illustrated by this case. Your baggage is not shipped through to destination and you must recheck at the intermediate point. If the first flight is delayed and you miss the second, you are usually completely out of luck, as was the case with the OP.
If the price with split tickets is really good compared to a single one, you may still save money and reduce the risks by staying overnight at the intermediate point.
Oct 5th, 2004, 05:55 AM
#26
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I should have added that you would be out of luck if you miss the second flight AND you had purchased a non-flexible ticket such as a consolidator fare. That's usually the case with split ticketing as you are looking for the cheapest price from origin to destination.
Oct 5th, 2004, 06:11 AM
#27
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This does not surprise me from Air France. My sister booked 2 tickets to Italy for a specific fare. She repeated the fare a couple of times to the clerk. When she received the tickets they were double the price quoted. Air France said that particular call was not recoreded and they wouldn't do anything about it. They also leave too short a time between changes. I never use Air France. They aren't customer friendly at all.
Oct 5th, 2004, 06:15 AM
#28
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I agree that this problem has nothing to do with whether or not you use a "travel professional". Of course, a travel professional's first action would probably be to book the flights linked together to avoid such a problem, but you can do that yourself if you are so inclined. And if you push the travel professional for the lowest price fare he is just as likely to book unlinked flights as you are.
Oct 5th, 2004, 06:16 AM
#29
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Although Air France seemed to be very rough on you they are still within legal rights. This is what can go wrong when you book a trip on 2 seperate tickets. You rights are only guaranteed when the ticket is purchased under one ticket number.
Oct 5th, 2004, 08:19 AM
#30
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Thank you all for commiserating with me. I may not get my money back, but sharing the grief has helped lighten the load. I thought I had been doing the smart thing, but apparently I wasn't. I was ignorant of the "booking all flights together thing."
I was opting for convenience rather than frugality when booking my original flights. Basically, I wanted to fly out of the more convenient Oakland airport rather than hecka-busy San Francisco one across the Bay, but for this convenience, the tickets were either priced inexpicably more or the flights from Oakland had way too many connections. Jet Blue seemed like the obvious choice out of Oakland to New York.
And yes, I DID call AF when I felt we wouldn't make our flight - upon landing to re-fuel in upstate New York. I was put on hold and then had to hang-up when our flight was about to take off. Back in the air I expressed my concern to the Jet Blue flight attendant who said, "don't worry, if flights can't land on-time at JFK, flights can't take off on-time." Well, he was wrong.
With regard to speaking with an Air France supervisor... Picture me running and trying to talk to an AF representative on my cellphone as we take the Skytrain to the correct terminal at JFK. When I'm finally connected to a rep on the phone, she tells me I'm going to have to purchase new tickets - I thought she must have it wrong. But then the agent at the ticket counter along with his supervisor are also reluctantly telling me we have to purchase new tickets. Meanwhile I'm thinking -- we only have a week in Italy, when will we get there - tomorrow? the day after that? ever? And where is my late husband now that his family really needs him?
Yea, you could say I was a bit stressed and feeling sorry for myself. That's why I whipped out my credit card right then and there... I think now of that travel incident as "roulette": $6500 on red -- and I lost. And no, my cavalier attitude does not mean I can afford it - hardly. At least I hope I've passed on a painful but valuable lesson.
I was opting for convenience rather than frugality when booking my original flights. Basically, I wanted to fly out of the more convenient Oakland airport rather than hecka-busy San Francisco one across the Bay, but for this convenience, the tickets were either priced inexpicably more or the flights from Oakland had way too many connections. Jet Blue seemed like the obvious choice out of Oakland to New York.
And yes, I DID call AF when I felt we wouldn't make our flight - upon landing to re-fuel in upstate New York. I was put on hold and then had to hang-up when our flight was about to take off. Back in the air I expressed my concern to the Jet Blue flight attendant who said, "don't worry, if flights can't land on-time at JFK, flights can't take off on-time." Well, he was wrong.
With regard to speaking with an Air France supervisor... Picture me running and trying to talk to an AF representative on my cellphone as we take the Skytrain to the correct terminal at JFK. When I'm finally connected to a rep on the phone, she tells me I'm going to have to purchase new tickets - I thought she must have it wrong. But then the agent at the ticket counter along with his supervisor are also reluctantly telling me we have to purchase new tickets. Meanwhile I'm thinking -- we only have a week in Italy, when will we get there - tomorrow? the day after that? ever? And where is my late husband now that his family really needs him?
Yea, you could say I was a bit stressed and feeling sorry for myself. That's why I whipped out my credit card right then and there... I think now of that travel incident as "roulette": $6500 on red -- and I lost. And no, my cavalier attitude does not mean I can afford it - hardly. At least I hope I've passed on a painful but valuable lesson.
Oct 5th, 2004, 08:23 AM
#31
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Wow, so much misinformation here that I'd say this thread is becoming useless. Just a few points:
- It really has nothing to do with Air France. Most airlines will do the same.
- It really has nothing to do with alliance. You can book tickets on the same itinerary on non-alliance airlines. For example, right now I have a CO/CO/CX/CO ticket in my hand, even though CO and CX are not alliance airlines.
- Most major airlines (again, alliances don't matter) have interline baggage agreement. So, the bags will be transferred if such an agreement is in place, <b>even if you're flying on two seperate tickets.</b> Of course, if you first flight is late, then your bags will not make the connection just like yourselves.
Anyways, this is a good lesson for those who'd try to save a little and buy seperate tickets with a relatively short connection.
- It really has nothing to do with Air France. Most airlines will do the same.
- It really has nothing to do with alliance. You can book tickets on the same itinerary on non-alliance airlines. For example, right now I have a CO/CO/CX/CO ticket in my hand, even though CO and CX are not alliance airlines.
- Most major airlines (again, alliances don't matter) have interline baggage agreement. So, the bags will be transferred if such an agreement is in place, <b>even if you're flying on two seperate tickets.</b> Of course, if you first flight is late, then your bags will not make the connection just like yourselves.
Anyways, this is a good lesson for those who'd try to save a little and buy seperate tickets with a relatively short connection.
Oct 5th, 2004, 08:33 AM
#32
Another lesson learned (besides the value of booking a single itinerary/ticket) is that 3 hours is simply not enough time to allow for connection at a major international airport these days, especially if you *really* need to make that next flight.
Oct 5th, 2004, 08:41 AM
#33
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Whoa! Yea, I can see where I might appear miserly, trying to save a few bucks, but convenience was more the factor. Is a 3-hour connection time too short? What would be more reasonable? 6 hours?
My beef is: Weather or "acts of God" can prevent anyone from making their flight connections and the airlines should accommodate those who make a reasonable effort to make their flights in such cases. I'm even willing to pay a penalty for missing the flight. But to charge me more than double for the same flights?!
My beef is: Weather or "acts of God" can prevent anyone from making their flight connections and the airlines should accommodate those who make a reasonable effort to make their flights in such cases. I'm even willing to pay a penalty for missing the flight. But to charge me more than double for the same flights?!
Oct 5th, 2004, 09:21 AM
#35
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Ouch! Lots of lessons learned here. I'm sorry for you Blithespirit (your name does imply something relevant here, doesn't it?)and I'm with you all the way because it's something I would have tried in an effort to save money, especially for so many tickets. It's a lot of money saved when multiplied by 6. Lesson learned, I'm following the straight and narrow trail. Still, lots of good advice about pursuing the proper people. I would hope they would knock that $6500 down. That's a couple of vacations right there.
Oct 5th, 2004, 09:25 AM
#36
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I am so sorry to hear about this story. We flew AirFrance for a leg of our trip to Italy for our honeymoon last June and never again. Even Iberia has better service than these guys!
I'd also try ira's suggestion. Write a very nice letter to the president and perhaps mention that you make (or plan to make) a lot of international trips and would like to continue using AirFrance... blah blah blah... have always been treated fairly before this incident and are thus horrified at what has happened this time...
Good luck, I really do hope you can get some compensation for all you spent...
I'd also try ira's suggestion. Write a very nice letter to the president and perhaps mention that you make (or plan to make) a lot of international trips and would like to continue using AirFrance... blah blah blah... have always been treated fairly before this incident and are thus horrified at what has happened this time...
Good luck, I really do hope you can get some compensation for all you spent...
Oct 5th, 2004, 09:26 AM
#38
Blithespirit, well yes (and as you found out) in my opinion three hours is not enough time to be sure of making your next flight. I allow 2-3 hours even when I?m transferring on the same ticket with the same airline in a busy airport. Especially in your situation, with six people traveling, ticketing through three different airlines, and a nightmare of an airport like JFK.
You do have my sympathy for the money lost, don?t get me wrong. But to expect airlines to start refunding money or granting new tickets for things they cannot control (like the weather or people showing up on time for their flights), well I don?t think that?s reasonable.
You do have my sympathy for the money lost, don?t get me wrong. But to expect airlines to start refunding money or granting new tickets for things they cannot control (like the weather or people showing up on time for their flights), well I don?t think that?s reasonable.
Oct 5th, 2004, 09:33 AM
#39
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I fly between Washington, DC and Belfast on a regular basis, and this always requires a connecting flight. I book everything through the United site. As others have said, since I book everything through the one airline, they take care of me when I'm delayed (and often get delayed out of Belfast). However, BA is one airline that doesn't take that sort of thing into consideration.
Also, someone else mentioned OneWorld and other alliances. Those things are worthless. I learned my lesson the last time I flew BA. Forget who we flew into Heathrow on, but one of their supposed OneWorld "partners". Our flight was delayed, and although we could have just made the flight, and we had to cough up the 100 GBP for a night in a hotel. The BA guy told us it didn't matter which airline we flew in with, and even though it was a OneWorld airline, they wouldn't give us a hotel voucher.
Also, someone else mentioned OneWorld and other alliances. Those things are worthless. I learned my lesson the last time I flew BA. Forget who we flew into Heathrow on, but one of their supposed OneWorld "partners". Our flight was delayed, and although we could have just made the flight, and we had to cough up the 100 GBP for a night in a hotel. The BA guy told us it didn't matter which airline we flew in with, and even though it was a OneWorld airline, they wouldn't give us a hotel voucher.
Oct 5th, 2004, 09:43 AM
#40
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I still will use 2-ticket itineraries to Europe. I just follow these guidelines:
Leave at least one overnight between the first airline and the second.
Know what the other options are if the second airline suddenly doesn't work out for whatever reason (cancelled flight, etc.).
Thus, in a case where I had to fly from Oslo to London, I left two overnights because the other means of transport other than flying would have taken a long time if I had suddenly had to use them. I had a nonrefundable, nonchangeable flight from London, so it was essential I leave enough time.
For my upcoming trip, I am cutting things a little close on the return by taking a flight from Rome the night before my afternoon flight from Heathrow. But I have an alternate flight in mind if that doesn't work out, and if that still doesn't work out, I can phone up Air Canada well in advance and change the home-bound portion of the ticket for $200 (and likely be delayed a day).
Leave at least one overnight between the first airline and the second.
Know what the other options are if the second airline suddenly doesn't work out for whatever reason (cancelled flight, etc.).
Thus, in a case where I had to fly from Oslo to London, I left two overnights because the other means of transport other than flying would have taken a long time if I had suddenly had to use them. I had a nonrefundable, nonchangeable flight from London, so it was essential I leave enough time.
For my upcoming trip, I am cutting things a little close on the return by taking a flight from Rome the night before my afternoon flight from Heathrow. But I have an alternate flight in mind if that doesn't work out, and if that still doesn't work out, I can phone up Air Canada well in advance and change the home-bound portion of the ticket for $200 (and likely be delayed a day).
