soulseven

My wifey and I are planning on a 2-3 week trip to Europe in April. Niether of us have ever been so it seems like a daunting task to plan. The countries we have narrowed it down to at present are Greece (Mainland and Islands), Italy, France, Spain, and maybe Switzerland. I know we won't be able to do it all. Basically I need any advice you could give as far as a realistic itinerary and travel once we are over there. I want to get it pretty well planned out before we go.

Our goal is to have a well balanced trip that will allow us some time to relax as well as adventure. We are poor, so we are willing to cut corners wherever possible (ie. lodging, eating, travelling)

Any help would be great. We have been married 4 years and have always desired to travel abroad together. This is our first chance.
Thanks

RufusTFirefly

If you have 3 weeks, visit Italy and one other country. 2 weeks just Italy, or something like France and Switzerland.

For 3 weeks:

Fly into Rome--4 days.
Amalfi Coast--3 days
Florence--3 days with side trip of your choice.
Venice--4 days.
Fly out of Venice.

You can reverse the order--many people would prefer to do so.

For 3 weeks, I'd add a week in the Alps or in France.

elaine

I'm not good in math but I'll bet there are 50 permutations on how you can do this trip, and I'll bet 50 different Fodorites can each share an opinion.

I haven't been to Spain or Switz so I can't comment on those, but I will say that if I were you I'd pick adjacent areas, just to save on the time and expense of going further afield. 3 weeks sounds like a lot of time, until you actually start to figure out how many days in each place. Any day you have to get from one place to another, even if it's only a few hours of travel time, is mostly lost to sightseeing, by the time you take a train or plane, pack and unpack, wait for your new room to be ready, perhaps experience a delay, etc.

So, perhaps, Greece & Italy, OR, Spain & France & Italy, OR, France & Switz & northern Italy (Venice and the Lakes).

My dream trip: (again, ignoring Spain and Switzerland based on ignorance)

I'd fly from home (is that the USA for you?) to
Athens, spend up to three days there including a daytrip to Sounion or north to Delphi, or daytrip to one of the Saronic Gulf islands like Hydra. Then I'd spend 5 days on a couple of islands, preferably within the same island group so you don't have to go back to Athens to fly to another group.

Fly back to Athens, change planes, and fly to Rome. Spend at least 4 days, and perhaps daytrip to Florence or Orvieto or Pompeii. Take train to Venice, spend three days. By my count you've used up a good 2 weeks.

If you have more time, fly or train from Venice to Paris, or else Nice where you can visit the Riviera or Provence, go home from there.

Of course you can reverse the starting and ending points.

Sometimes intraEurope plane fares are not significantly more expensive than taking the train, especially when you consider time saved on long hauls.

ira

Hi,

My usual suggestion for first timers is a week in London and a week in Paris.

In your case, I suggest fly into Paris for a week, take www.volareweb.com to Venice and spend a week. Fly out of Venice.

If you have another week, add Florence and side trips to Tuscany. Fly out of Florence.

(Yes, I left out Rome.)

kismetchimera

dont forget..All the roads lead to Rome

nytraveler

I agree that London and Paris are the usual first stops. But you don't mention England in your post so I'm assuming it's not a major interest. With 3 weeks and keeping things on a budget I would recommend you give yourselves a taste of two different cultures (ie Romantic and Germanic). For later in the year I would recommend Italy and Switzerland, but April is fairly early for the Alps, so you may want to consider France and Germany. In any case I would "anchor" the trip with several days in a major city at each end (Paris and Munich? Rome and Zurich?) and spend the rest of the time in between in smaller towns that will give you much more for your $.

I always prefer to travel by car (rentals for the smallest size standards - vs automatic - are quite reasonable for 2 people vs multiple train fares) and you have many more opportunities for exploring and can stay in inexpensive pensions and gasthouses in the countryside. You pick up the car as you leave the first city and drop it when you get to the final city. In the cities do as much as possible by foot (the only real way to appreciate Europe) or public transit (Metro, U-bahn) when you must.

For instance, you might do

Paris 5 nights
Loire 3 nights (consider staying in a real chateau B&B some are very inexpensive)
Burgundy 3 nights (drop into Salzbourg on the way to)
Rhine 3 nights (see romantic road on the way to)
Munich 4 nights

You could also do:

Rome 5 nights
Tuscany 4 night
North italy/lakes 3 nights
Interlaken or similar 3 nights
Zurich (or Luzern) 3 nights

There are tons of options - my only word of warning is not to try to do too much or you won;t have the time to enjoy anything.

soulseven

Thanks so much for the quick replies. Great advice. What if Greece is a must? My wife really wants to see Athens and a couple islands. Is this going to make it hard to jump over to Italy, France, Spain in 2-3 weeks timespan?

mamc

If I had two weeks, I would spend it in Italy, probably in Rome, Florence (with day trips to the Tuscan countryside) and Venice. If I had 3 weeks, I'd add Paris. Another thought for 2 weeks is Paris and London with perhaps a stop in Normandy on your way between London and Paris.

mpprh

Hi

if you really are are poor, forget Switzerland this trip.

Even the Europeans find it expensive.......... and with todays worthless USD ?

Best value for money is probably the non touristy areas. Stay a little outside, and travel into the expensive tourist "must sees".

Peter
The Languedoc Page
http://tlp.netfirms.com

joegri

soulseven: With two to three weeks and a stated desire to relax, you have to narrow your number of countries to, say, one country per week and that, only if you are willing to charge through each country in an attempt to grasp some idea of the culture you are visiting. Nothing wrong with that. Some people thrive on it ("as much as we can see in the time we have&quot. But, that is not "relaxing".
Lay out your total time available whatever it is, calculate your travel time (does the two to three weeks include your travel time to and from Europe) and determine how much nontravel time you really have. Then you can calculate how much time you want to spend at each location.
With three weeks, we would spend the whole time in one country seeing as much as we can with some scheduled "down-time". But, that is just us.
City hopping is another way to go. Lots of countries, always close to an airport, NOT inexpensive.
I agree with Ira, England is great for a first trip to Europe. But, any of the Countries you mention would be fine for a first time traveler.
Another advantage to travelling in one or two ajacent countries, is the opportunity to use local ground transportation (busses), stay and eat out side of major cities and limit the number of flights required (conceivably one flight, each, going to and coming from Europe). This will keep your costs down and allow you to take advantage of the less expensive lodging and restaurants available.
Whatever you do, you are going to have a great time and I would bet that you will go again. Have a great trip.

tinarose

If you feel you must see all of Europe on this trip look at the Rick Steves website for Europe in 21 days. http://www.ricksteves.com/tours/europe/itin.htm and then consider how many miles you need to cover in order to do this. Then pick 2 countries and go there. The itineray you are considering give you very little time to relax.

ira

soulseven

>...My wife really wants to see Athens and a couple islands. Is this going to make it hard to jump over to Italy, France, Spain in 2-3 weeks timespan?<

YES, YES, YES. Consider whether you wish to do a marathon or a vacation.

If Greece is a must, do Greece for a week and Italy for 1 or 2 weeks.

You will go back again.

mrwunrfl

You could spend your two weeks in Greece. April is not tourist season in Greece so you should get some good bargains in that budget friendly country. In addition to Athens and islands, you can venture out to the Peloponnese.

Cicerone

Just so there are no surprises, April is not a great month to travel in Europe if you are looking for sun, warmth and beach weather. This is especially true of Greece and Spain. Temps in all the places you mention except Switzerland will only be in the high 50s F to low 60s F, not beach weather, IMO. Switzerland will be cooler, about 50 F, and it is not unusual to get snow in April, esp in the Alp areas. (I live in Zurich.) Take a look at a map and see how far north most of Europe is. Of course you can get the odd warm or hot day, but statistically the odds are against you. As long as you are prepared for these temps, it is not a problem, but if you are dreaming of taking a cruise or sitting on a beach on a Greek isle you might want to go a bit later in the year.

The pluses to travel in Europe in April is that it is generally much less crowded than the summer and early fall, esp August. Another thing to watch out for is Easter, as that may make flights and hotels a bit harder to get and a bit more expensive, and sights are more crowded. Good Friday and Easter Monday are holidays throughout Europe and shops and some restaurants will be closed. Easter this year is April 11.

Take a look at weatherbase.com and worldclimate.com for historical average temps and rainfall.

missypie

My first trip to Europe was for 2 weeks and it was:

fly into Frankfurt
drive Rhine and Mosel
Brussels/Brugge/Antwerp
Amsterdam
Paris (leave car)
London

I was young and it didn't seem too tiring (except that I know nothing about packing comfortable shoes). With that said, a good first itinerary might be similar:

Frankfurt/Rhine/Mosel drive (castles and wine tastings)
End up in Paris (leave car)
Eurostar to London

With that trip you'll experience 3 distinct types of cultures and foods.

If you want more of Germany, might go the other way at Frankfurt - start East and south to see Augsburg, Rotenburg, King Ludwigs Castles, Frieburg (Black Forest), then to Strasbourg, France, then to Paris and London...you could have the first week be driving around Germany - the second and third weeks exploring one city per week.

julie_Colorado

You will find London and Venice particularly expensive. I would wait until you have more money to tackle those... I love Greece and could easily do 2 weeks and then take the ferry over to eastern Italy. In Italy, I'd a week in a small town in Umbria. In Greece, I liked Delphi and Meteora and the penninsula better than the islands... But you'd have time to do all of this. From a value perspective Greece is up there... and an alternative is Austria and the Czech Republic. I haven't visited Spain or Portugal - but I hear they also are affordable. The most important thing is to just start! You sound young - so just go and enjoy!.. You'll be back.

Jackie_in_Italy

I like Greece and Italy. It's a nice pair to visit together, and its doable low cost--there are even ferries from Bari or Brindisi, if you want to visit some of southern Italy, or ferries from Ancona on the central coast. Plus plane trips shouldn't put you back that much.3 weeks should definitely give you time for these.

If you have only two weeks, I might just go for one country and that, of course for me, would be Italy.

bobthenavigator

You and the wifey need to get real on this one, especially on a budget. Greece is 3 weeks by itself. Italy is 6 weeks but you can make a good dent in 3 weeks. Spain takes at least 4 weeks---France a lifetime. Here is my best advice. 18 nites in Europe means a max of 6 destinations. Each should be no more than 4 hours travel time from the last. Get a good map and play with that one. The more you travel Europe the more you learn that less is actually more. Do Italy this time and see Greece when you have time next year

Anonymous

Since travel between countries is expensive and tiring, as well as time-consuming, this is in direct conflict with your relaxation and budget concerns as well as your limited time. As others have said, you need to choose just two countries, with perhaps 2 or 3 major cities and some countryside in-between. The rest will still be there for your next trip.

soulseven

Thanks so much for the helpful advice. I'm taking it to heart.