Madrid-Vienna Train

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Dec 24th, 1999, 09:41 AM

Jerry

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Madrid-Vienna Train

I (2 couples) will be traveling, 1 way, 1st. class from Madrid to Vienna in May 2000. What is the best way to reserve. Should we go over night and get a sleeper. Thanks

Dec 24th, 1999, 09:44 AM

Rex

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Okay, we'll see if I can get this one first! I'd recommend flying Madrid-Rome on Mr. Branson's little red airline - - www.virgin-express.com - - and then look into the train from there - - www.raileurope.com - - it will cut your time in half, and may be cheaper overall, as well.

Dec 25th, 1999, 12:28 AM

Ben Haines

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Fodors. The central reference library of a city near you may have the Thomas Cooik European Timetable. Your fastest route lies via Paris, since it avoids the Alps and the Tauern mountsains. Tables 46 and 32 have the trains. You need two nights to fit in all the miles, but get a bbrreak in Paris halfway. Francisc de Goya Hotel Train. Madrid Chamartin 1900, Paris Austerlitz 0829. First class sleeper, en suite shower available. Restaurant car. Breakfast in front of Asterlitz station, taxi over to Paris Est station, drop bags at left luggage ("consigne") and stroll out to see Paris. Orient Express. Paris Est 1749, Vienna West 0840. First class sleeper: sorry no shower. French buffet car for supper, Hungarian restaurant car for breakfast, or snooze to Vienna and breakfast in the Rosenkavalier restaurant in the station. You can leave Madrid four hours later if you change at Hendaye at the western end of the Pyrenees. Madrid Chamartin 2245, first class sleeper, Hendaye 0800. Breakfast there. Hendaye 1051, Paris Montparnasse 1620. Over to Paris Est for the Orient Express. You can book all these trains at any large station in Madrid. If you're new to night train travel in Europe I have on disc a note that might help you. And please write on any matter if I can help further. Welcome to Europe. Ben Haines, London

Dec 25th, 1999, 08:30 AM

Bob Brown

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Jerry: Getting from Madrid to Vienna by train reminds me of the old South Georgia joke about the guy who was trying to get from Lumpkin to Brunswick. He stopped at a gas station along the road and asked one of the local loafers. The fellow whom he asked had no clue; he wasn't even sure which way to go. So after several attempts to give directions, the loafer finally concluded that you cannot get there from here. I think that is the case with Madrid to Vienna. You cannot get there from here; you have to go someplace else first. I agree with Mr. Haines and Rex. Both of these gentlemen know of what they speak. On the route via Paris, you will be riding a train for about 28 hours, with various changes along the way. But your total transit time will be longer because, as Mr. Haines said, you will journey via Paris, unless you want 4 changes and a 32 hour trip. In Paris, not only do you change trains, but you have to change train stations as well. So you either lug your gear on the Metro, which is not particularly luggage friendly, or take a taxi. Because Paris taxis might not be willing to take 4 passengers, you could end up with 2 vehicles at $40 - 50 each. (Paris taxis I as I understand it do NOT have to accept 4 passengers. It might not be possible to fit into one vehicle anyhow, depending on how much luggage you have.) Unless you get some kind of adrenalin rush riding trains, I suggest you fly. By the time you pay for a sleeper and spend nearly 2 days in transit, I am not sure the train is cheaper. I don't have the magic Thomas Cook little red book. So I consulted the French SNCF website and the German website. Neither gave a comprehensive answer on the Madrid - Vienna run. I had to piece it together. One thing is for certain, you will be on the train for a long time in Spain, and between Paris and Vienna. Neither is a high speed route. At least the TGV in France gets to rolling at a high rate of speed. I know we took the TGV to Lausanne from Paris last year, and I could tell we were really moving -- 300 kph or some such speed. But going across Germany and Austria is slow freight in comparison.

Dec 25th, 1999, 09:04 AM

Bob Brown

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I don't how comprehensive and thorough Expedia is, but I just dropped my teeth when I checked the price of a flight from Madrid to Vienna: nearly $800 for a one way economy class ticket. I don't know if cheaper rates can be had. So you might end up boring it out on the train. Take along a Monopoly game or something. Perhaps Rex has some better knowledge on how to fly it for less than $3200 for the group.

Dec 25th, 1999, 05:34 PM

Peg

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Jerry, here is the perfect URL to work out train travel in Europe http://bahn.hafas.de/bin/detect.exe/bin/query.exe/en all you have to do is type in Madrid and Vienna and the date and you will get all the options, it couldn't be easier. It will give you many choices and a full itinerary, how many changes and length of journey. You can print it and take it with you when you travel, it helps overcome any language difficulties. Peg.

Dec 26th, 1999, 08:21 AM

Ben Haines

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Fodors Madrid-Vienna Train I agree with Mr Bown in general, but you can cut Paris taxi costs if one of you hangs on twenty minutes at the cafe at Austerlitz after breakfast, with all the luggage, while three of you metro over to Gare de l'Est, then that one taxis with luggage to that station, to meet you all and go to leave luggage. Both stations have luggage trolleys. The TGV averages 179 kilometers per hour between Paris and Geneva, about 120 miles per hour. The Orient Express from Paris to Vienna averages 97 kph or about 60 mph. The TGV has speed but does not have the comfort and convenience of he sleeper straight from Madrid to Paris. As you see, using the route with TGV that I list you must change at the Pyrenees, and have no time to enjoy Paris. The hafas site turns out variable. It gives three routes. One of them is the slow way via the Alps. Another gets you to Vienna at 0438, not a happy thought. But the other is quite good, and I'm sorry I didn't think of it: Madrid Chamartin 1545, Hendaye 2200 to 2245, Paris 0714 to 0749, Vienna 2120. The Spanish train has a buffet car, the night train has sleepers, and the day train from Paris to Vienna has a restaurant car. Useful if you sleep poorly on trains, but not if you sleep well on them, as on the Hafas times the moment you arrive in Vienna you'll just go off to bed. You might as well leave Madrid later (1900), have a day in Paris, and use only two trains, not three. This is what my first choice, above, suggests. There may well be cheaper flights than 800 dollars straight from Madrid to Vienna. I can say that no-frills flights from Madrid to North London cost 80 dollars: detail is on http://www.virgin.com and http://www.easyjet.com. North London to Vienna is 200 dollars: detail is on http://www.buzzaway.com Whether you can fit both together into a day I don't know: probably you can. Rail costs more than that. The basic second class fare shown in the January 1999 ssue of the little red book is Madrid to Paris 120 dollars, Paris to Vienna 198 dollars, total 318. So first class will be about 480. Then you add seat supplements of five or ten dollars, and sleeper supplements of 60 dollars second class and 100 first class, per night. Please write if I can help further. Ben Haines, London

Dec 26th, 1999, 08:56 AM

Bob Brown

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Thanks to Mr. Ben, I now know where to look for cheap air fares within Europe. I am learning!! So if that is the case, Expedia is not much help for intra European travel.

Dec 26th, 1999, 09:31 AM

Ben Haines

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Fodors Madrid-Vienna Train I forgot to say that four days a week there's a hotel night train from Barcelona that offers good connections from Madrid toVienna without crossing Paris, and views of the Alps. Leave Madrid Chamartin on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays or Sundays at 1100 by Talgo train with buffet car. Change at Barcelona Sants from 1800 to the Pau Casals hotel train, with sleepers and restautant car, leaving 2005. Change at Zurich from 0917 to 0933, the Transalpin Express, with restaurant car and first class observation car. Arrive Vienna West 1850. Mr Brown: It's kind of you to say so, but these air routes are all to and from Britain. I'm still looking for a site for all Europe. Ben Haines

Dec 27th, 1999, 01:31 PM

#10

Kevin

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Here is a travel agents pick: Madrid-Barcelona 1100-1800hrs $336/$256(tickets and seat reservations, 1st or 2nd class) Barcelona-Milano 2005-0900 $664(Global ticket/4 person sleeper) Milano-Wien 2015-0842 $820/$536( tickets and 2 double sleepers OR Tickets and one Couchette{6 person sleeper}) Totals: 1st class$1820 2nd class$1456 Given the distance travelled, this is your best bet. Milano is a great place to spend a day, and there is liggage consignment at the station. So depending on what class you want to travel, you have a cost to suite your needs. I looked into whether a pass would offer and advantage, but, no such luck. If you would like any further info, let me know. Enjoy your planning! Kevin

Dec 27th, 1999, 02:57 PM

#11

Rex

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Uggh! Two consecutive nights on a train, Mr. Doerksen? I suppose you can argue that it saves on hotels, but by that logic, one might spend all of a Europe trip on overnight trains! Maybe I wasn't clear on just how cheap the fares are from Madrid-Rome. 8900 ESP! That's only FIFTY-FOUR dollars (and 19 cents). And it connects well with the Rome-Vienna train service ($155 first-class plus sleeper supplement, on RailEuropeUSA, probably cheaper elsewhere). This is the cheapest way to complete this route I have been able to find. And although the non-stop flight is not as cheap as Mr. Haines' solution (for which I found 10900 ESP + 59 GBP = $257.40), it's $327.50, not $800 (price it round trip and throw away the return, Bob Brown!). Probably worth the modest extra cost for the benefit of non-stop. Mr. Haines' suggestion, by the way is THREE segments (MAD-BRU/BRU-STN/STN-VIE) To get a better connection (one stop), Air France offers an open jaw MAD-CDG/CDG/VIE (with the throwaway segment Toulouse-MAD) for only $267.40 (on Travelocity, I used the dates May 2 outbound and May 12 for the artificial "return").

Dec 28th, 1999, 07:14 PM

#12

Ben Haines

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Ben, thanks for your reply and info. Being in unfamiliar territoru as I am, please tell me...is Chamartin 1900 the name of the station in Madrid?

Dec 28th, 1999, 07:23 PM

#13

Rex

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I will assume that Ben did not address a question to himself - - so Jerry, if you were trying to address Ben, the custom hee is to still put your own name in the "Name" box, and just start out your nessage to a specific person. Chamartin is indeed the name of (one of the) Madrid train station(s). 1900 is the time of departure (i.e., 7 p.m.)

Dec 28th, 1999, 08:38 PM

#14

Bob Brown

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I am curious. Given the length of the trip, and the costs, and the number of people, would not renting a car and driving it be cheaper and possibly quicker than using trains? Or would auto drop fees be prohibitive?? The Aral Strassen Atlas Deutschland und Europa lists the travel time at 24 hours. The distance is shown as 2230 K, or about 1383 miles. If you stopped to sleep for 8 hours at a hotel somewhere, the time would be about the same as the train. The times in the Atlas hit me as being a little conservative, but for a long trip stops for food, fuel, and rest might consume quite a bit of time.

Dec 29th, 1999, 08:30 AM

#15

Kevin

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Jerry, I am afraid that Rex is incorrect in his fare for Madrid-Roma. $54US is grossly understated. There is no fare, for that distance, for that cheap. My prices are from the 2000 Eurail Tariff book. The routing that I provided is still your best bet. Yes, you do indeed spend two nights on a train, but as the purpose is to actually see Europe, this is the wisest choice. Spending a DAY or tow on a train is a complete waste of time and money. Better to arrive refreshed form a good nights sleep, ready to take on the day. Cheers!

Dec 29th, 1999, 09:05 AM

#16

Rex

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Kevin - - the AIRfare, sir, on Virgin Express from Rome to Madrid is 8900 pesetas = 54 dollars. And you get there in 2 hours, not 15. It seems that you did not read my very first post on this thread. I also posted an AIRfare (on Air France) to get all the way to Vienna in only 5 hours which is cheaper than ANY train fare (so did Ben Haines, but his is only $10 cheaper, and takes longer, with two stops). Even the non-stop flight is cheaper than the train.

Dec 29th, 1999, 11:23 AM

#17

Kevin

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A pox on me, Rex! Since that is for airfare, it is indeed cheap. Call me crazy, but I still prefer the train. What can you expect froma rail afficianado though, right?! Cheers!

Dec 29th, 1999, 06:48 PM

#18

Bob Brown

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For Rex. Please tell us where you find those air fares for flights from Madrid to Rome. I searched the Virgin Atlantic site and found nothing about Madrid or Rome. So obviously I am looking in the wrong place.