I'm visiting my niece in Madrid in late February-early March and thought I had a workable plan for traveling around Andalucia in the middle, but now I'm having second thoughts (suffering information overload from scanning Fodors posts!!) Can you help?

My goal is to mainly drive to avoid dealing with restrictive train schedules, but also to be free of the car where it's a liability. My husband and I enjoy the luxury of being able to stop when we see something that interests us. So --

I had planned to pick up a car after a night in Madrid and drive to Toledo (one night), then Granada (one night) and Ronda (one night), and finally leave the car in Sevilla (two nights) before taking the AVE train back to Madrid to stay for a few nights with our niece.

Here are my questions (but I'd welcome any unrelated commments as well):

Is there any value to having a car for the Madrid/Toledo/Granada leg (i.e., more opportunity to view scenic vistas and stop at interesting spots), or should we just take the AVE train to Granada and get a car after our visit there?

Also, would it make sense to stop in Cordoba when we take the train from Sevilla to Madrid? And would we be crazy to spend just a few hours there instead of spending the night?

Oh, and I'd also be interested in any thoughts about spending more than one night in any of these one-night stops!

I think that covers it for now. . . Thanks for your help!

Uh-oh -- I'm falling off the map! Do I need a better title?

My opinion is coming from the perception of one who did a two week road trip through western/southern Spain last Sept/Oct. And really, really, really enjoyed it. Did I say I enjoyed it? I couldn't imagine fussing with trains and such. So, with that in mind, here are a few of my thoughts for what it's worth.

Driving is not for everyone, but it does afford one the opportunity to set your own schedule and your own itinerary. The roads in Spain are good, the drivers are courteous (with the exception of Seville), so driving is easy.

I would not, ever, under any circumstances, even to my worse enemies recommend driving in Madrid. At any time. No matter how good a driver you think you might be. Even for a short distance. No way. I don't even want to be in the car. I don't even want to try to navigate again. It was a bad experience. Very bad experience. Laughable....now. Not then. My S/O is an experienced truck driver with many, many years on the road and even HE won't drive in Madrid again. Avoid driving in this place at all costs. Can't stress this strongly enough to any and all tourists.

Toledo is kind of a weird experience, drive-wise. There is the "old city" thing, and then there is a newer part of the city. The newer city isn't so bad. I wouldn't recommend driving in the old city. There are car park areas on the outskirts of the city, and some hotels that do have parking available. Driving means one must have a sense of adventure. Doable, certainly. Just takes patience.

The drive from Toledo to Granada? Scenic? What is your definition of scenic? Madrid and its environs are on on a plain that many do not consider particularly scenic. I enjoyed it, but it's a personal thing. I also think taking a bit of a detour to view the windmills is a highlight and not to be missed, but again, a personal thing. Consuegra is one of the more popular areas to visit for this and it is fairly close to Toledo. It can be accessible by bus, I believe, but so much more convenient by car. (The windmills don't take long to view - it's the journey to find them that can be the fun part)

The topography does get more interesting as you approach Andalucia and as you approach the mountains. However, be realistic. One of our "rules" on our road trip was not to exceed driving time by more than 3 hours so as not to have fatigue. We disregarded this 2 days, and the driver ended up being very tired those evenings. I'm not certain how long the drive is from Toledo to Granada, but if you decide to drive, be realistic about the drive. It might be better to stop in Cordoba.

Driving in Granada is no more fun than driving in Seville, really. However, as in most other cities in Spain, once you locate your hotel and park the car, you won't be using the car until you leave. Just be certain you have specific instructions how to get to the hotel. (Most hotels are very good at supplying this information, or at least that is what I discovered.)

Wherever you stay in Ronda, be certain you do get those specific driving instructions! This can be a difficult city to manuver through. Also - check for parking. It is at a premimum, and if your hotel is in the old city the streets are narrow. (I would go against the grain here and recommend staying 2 nights in Ronda. I absolutely loved this place, especially after the daytrippers left in the evenings. In fact, I enjoyed Ronda lots more than Seville.)

If you drive to Seville, steel yourself. Drivers are, to be frank, rude. It's every man for himself and you'll be re-reading the insurance policy on your rental car! Seville also is the only city besides Madrid that has absolutely no convenient places to turn around. So if you make a mistake or a mis-turn, expect to go quite a distance out of your way before you will be able to turn around. (We eventually made an illegal turn into a car park out of frustration, and thankfully there were no police around - or they ignored us!) Between the layout of the city and the other drivers, this place is almost as frustrating as Madrid. Well, probably more so. At least the drivers in Madrid are courteous.

I don't want to tell you to drive or not to drive, as I just feel that is a very personal decision. When I was planning my trip, my S/O was adamant that he wanted to do a road trip. A lot of people tried to talk me out of it and tried to give me arguments to "convince" him on how much better public transportation would be. He wouldn't budge. And I am so thankful he didn't. It worked out fabulously for us. We saw things others normally don't. But it's not something that everyone can or wants to do. It takes a lot of discussion - who drives, who navigates - and some rules. But hopefully you can get some facts to make the decision you need to make.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy your trip. Spain is truly an amazing country in so many ways!

Ahh, Chele! A response beyond my wildest dreams. Thank you! More questions --

I definitely will not drive in Madrid. Should we take the train to Toledo and pick up the car there, or do you know if there's a way to get a car on the edge of Madrid?

Also, would you recommend going to Cordoba from Toledo and spending a night there before driving on to Granada? That would save me from stopping in Cordobo en route from Sevilla to Madrid.

Re: Ronda, thanks for the endorsement! I'm really struggling with the choice between one or two nights.

Thanks again!

We drove from Madrid-Barcelona-Valencia-Granada-Malaga-Rhonda-Arcos-Seville-Toledo-Madrid.(16 day trip). I agree with chele60, the driving on the open roads was easy, the cities not so easy (I drove around Sevilla for over an hour trying to figure out how to get to our hotel and where to leave the car). I would train from Madrid-Toledo-Seville (or Cordoba), I hear the high speed train is very efficient. Then pick up a car and drive to Granada via Rhonda. I would also want to spend 2 nights in Seville and 2 in Granada.

Hope this helps.

Having a car makes good sense in that it does allow you explore the countryside as you wish. There is a lot to see and experience that can only be done if your setting your own pace and have the freedom to take a different road now and then.

Depending on when you arrive in Toledo, spending only one night will be doing the city a disservice. If you’re there in time for lunch you can explore the city that evening, return to the hotel for a good nights rest and then back out to see the city from all sides during the day. You’re liable to find it interesting in many respects.

I would say the same about staying in Granada and Ronda only one night. You hardly have time to check into the hotel before you’re getting ready to check back out.

Toledo to Granada is close to a five-hour drive following the main highway south. Jaén is about an hour north of Granada and a perfect place to stop for lunch and stretch your legs. You may even want to consider staying at the Parador in Jaén and spending a couple of days exploring this region, including a day trip to Granada and another to Baeza and Ubeda where you can see the preparations underway for Semana Santa, Holy Week.

I wouldn’t drive in Sevilla regardless. Plan on dropping the car off at the airport and taking a taxi to your hotel.

If you are taking the AVE back to Madrid, then you could spend one night in Cordoba, catching the train out the next morning. Cordoba is interesting and shouldn’t be overcrowded with tourist in late February – early March.

Looks like you got some great advice from some fellow "road trip warriors"!

Seriously, I would avoid driving in Madrid at any and all costs. Even going to the outskirts just isn't worth the aggravation - it is absolute madness. And with construction? And the city will seemingly arbitrarily shut down main streets? Not worth it. This is one where I would say it might be worth it to take the train to Toledo. It's a short distance, and there really is nothing to see along the way. Well, unless one furniture manufacturer is your idea of vacation scenery!

I just checked, and AutoEurope does operate out of Toledo. This is actually a broker for rental cars, not a rental car company. We used them and were very satisfied. (They used Avis) There are probably other rental agencies to choose from as well, though the number of offices and selection of cars might not be as varied as Madrid. You may have to make arrangements early to get what you want.

Robert's idea of going to Jaén is a good one. Cordoba is roughly the same drive from Toledo as Granada, I believe. My recommendation would be two-fold:

1.) Go this web site: http://www.spain.info/Tourspain/?language=en - it's the official tourism site for Spain. There is tons of information there, but under "Plan Your Trip" and "Practical Information" you will find "Tourist Offices Around The World." Locate the one nearest you, and send them an email letting them know where you will be, and they will send you all kinds of information about Spain and about each city you plan to visit. The maps can give you a good idea of distances. (They are quick and it's all free)

2.) Go to mappy.com, and start planning. It's not foolproof, but it's a start and it gives you something to work with. When you see something on a map, you sometimes can't get a feel for distances. When something tells you it's 4 1/2 hours away, and you know you should probably add another hour, that can change plans and thinking.

I also agree with Robert that one night in Toledo may leave you wanting. We really wish we had stayed longer. But then, to each their own. Some people get a lot out of Toledo and others are not as impressed by it. We didn't overnight in Granada choosing to do the Alhambra as a daytrip. However, had we decided to stay there, I think one night would not have been enough. It is a larger city and I think there is quite a bit to do.

Okay, I'm going to admit the cardinal sin here, but we decided to skip Cordoba. We originally had it in our plans, and on paper it seemed to work out just fine. But when we were there, it just seemed rushed and forced. I guess it gives me a reason to go back to Andalucia - and back to Ronda! However, I think I prefer owlwoman's idea of catching Cordoba on the way back to Madrid. It's kind of funny, but once one is in Andalucia, it seems that Cordoba is in sort of an odd spot. It did to us, anyway. Practically, more convenient to visit there via the train on the way to Madrid, IMO.

You've gotten great advise, and I can only add a few of my own impressions. I loved Cordoba and was glad we went there. Also, if you do drive to Toledo, stay at place that has parking--I'd highly reccomend Hostal Cardenal.

Have a great trip.

Thanks everybody! I'm mulling this over. . . I do love Hostal de Cardinal in Toledo. If I can stay there, do you think it would be more convenient to reach it by car or from the train station?

Well, I drove a rental car (actually a minivan) in Madrid and had no problems. Amittedly, I am a European. The whole countryside around Madrid is indeed very scenic. It's mostly an arid country but with high mountain ranges. We stayed in a spectacular Parador hotel in Oropesa and drove from there to Toledo, Avila etc.
All the drives had been very scenic. Along the roads, you find lakes, rivers, meadows with black bulls, orchards etc. Good places for picnics!

The Hostal del Cardenal is easy to find. When you reach Toledo, arriving from Madrid on the N401, follow the signs indicating Casco Urbano. Go around the circle, the hotel will be on your right. You can't miss it.

Thanks so much! I had been trying to reach Hotel Santa Isabel in Toledo, but I booked Hostal de Cardenal for the easier access.

Thanks to everyone else too -- my plan now is to go ahead and get the car somewhere outside Madrid (the airport? must research that) on Saturday and drive to Toledo (one night), Granada (one night), Ronda (two nights) and Sevilla (two nights), where I hope to dump the car without having to navigate through the city. Then we'll take the AVE back to Madrid on Friday -- and if we get an early start and feel energetic, possibly stop in Cordoba on the way.

Pretty rigorous, but I'm not sure when we'll be back!