Pegontheroad

Just thought I'd throw in the fact that when unemployment is high in the U.S., the crime rates go up. When the economy improves, the crime rate goes down.

jamikins

I think the question is - do crimes against tourists go up in the US? I have no doubt crime goes up, so does fraud.

jamikins

And I wasn't being snarky, I am honestly curious!

Aduchamp1

I was pickpocketed on my only trip to Turkey. AND I put my wallet in front pocket for protection. Otherwise it was a sensational trip and a place to where I would return.

Many years ago, we were in the Alfama in Lisbon and housewives were warning us to be careful of my camera. So we did.

Why are people so traumatized and fearful by one event. It could be becasue I have lived in NYC and I am streetwise, but adults have to learn to deal with life and not be paralyzed.

If you want clean go to a computer chip factory. If you want safe go to your grandmother's. Assuming she does not live on the streets of Barcelona or Madrid.

colduphere

Though sadly Adu has been known to mistakenly wear his pants backwards.

Aduchamp1

Though sadly Adu has been known to mistakenly wear his pants backwards.

No wonder I cannot find my house keys.

PalenQ

Pal - your poor SIL. When did it happen?>

I was about four years ago in October very early on a Sunday morning - they were going to catch an AVE train to Seville - I hear similar incidents still happening a lot - there have been some threads on Fodor's saying so and again just Googling Muggings Madrid yields zillions of similar stories (when done for other European cities like Paris you get very few - talking about muggings, which to me means robbery by physical violence.

The attacker was not an ethnic Spaniard as most seem to be immmigrants, probably unemployed and often drug addicts - a black African in this case - Spain has a real problem with drug addiction and this often results in street crimes anywhere that problem raises its ugly head.

Again most people will not be mugged - my sis in law had been to Barcelona and Madrid several times and never had any problem - nor have I in my many visits to those cities. But it does happen and take precautions like not wearing valuables visibly, etc.

TonyBishop

4 years ago, you say, PalenQ. I have it on good authority that they caught the guy 3 years ago.

lovely2c asked "Anybody have any recent experiences (good or bad) they can share?" I am not sure that 4 years ago counts as recent. It would not for me anyway.

Agosto

Again, I disagree. If you google Mugging Madrid you get lots of stories about an email scam. Right, if yu google Mugging Paris you get lots of links about a song. Try Mugged Paris. There are even videos.

(I repeat myself, I'm not saying Paris is unsafe while Madrid is safe. All I'm saying is that only terrifying stories are posted, wherever they happen. And it's unfair to suggest that unemployed people will resort to mug tourists.)

Agosto

I was deisagreeing with PalenQ, not with TonyBishop.

TonyBishop

Yes, I understood that, Agosto. Although I live in Spain, I am not Spanish. Nonetheless I find it quite offensive when I read that unemployed people are more likely to rob tourists.

For a start, a criminal record will not help you to get a job when you come out of prison. But, as we both know, that is the least important of the issues surrounding this.

annhig

i think that we can ALL agree that it's a good idea to keep an eye on your belongings, especially amongst crowds.

I suspect that applies as much in Time Square as it does in Las Ramblas.

PalenQ

ovely2c asked "Anybody have any recent experiences (good or bad) they can share?" I am not sure that 4 years ago counts as recent. It would not for me anyway.>

Fodorites have reported similar incicents in Barcelona in recent months.

Madrid and Barcelona have a serious problem with muggings that most other European cities simply do not have - again a mugging is a violent physical attack - this if a FACT believe it or not. As a professional European travel write even though retired I do keep in good contact with what is happening around Europe - you can believe it or not. I do not care but will continue to warn folks to be on their guard, be leery of anyone coming up to them and avoid isolated places in those two cities whose officials should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this activity, done by a relative handful of folks, to continue.

To say those cities have no problems and are much like Paris, etc is just pure misinformation and a disservice to novice folks traveling there.

PalenQ

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/02/29/...30_253456.html

http://web.nmsu.edu/~wcomer/mugged.htm

Even the manager of Tottenham Spurs football team was mugged in Madrid!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12257958

http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/item...LkM9RrJYy1EWBI

PalenQ

And yes it seems as if Paris has experienced a spate of muggings in recent months - so I retract what I said about Paris - but muggings are extremely rare in Europe in general - very rare - street crime is rife, like pickpockets and scam artists but rarely any threat of physical violence. Getting pickpocketed quietly and violently mugged are two very different things IMO.

Aduchamp1

i think that we can ALL agree that it's a good idea to keep an eye on your belongings, especially amongst crowds.

I suspect that applies as much in Time Square as it does in Las Ramblas.
______

NYC is the safest large city in America and while it is always wise to be alert, there have not been reports of wide spread pickpocketing or mugging at Times Square. One reason for that is Times Square is always considered a target for terrorists and there is a big police presence there.

But still there are few reports of wide spread crime, although crime must exist.

MadridMan

Bad things happen everywhere, that's for sure. And things happen in Madrid and Barcelona. Barcelona seems to have a heavier reputation for pick-pockets than Madrid. I'm constantly in contact with tourists coming to Madrid and can only remember one instance in the last 6 years of someone "losing" a laptop they left on a public counter/table and turned away. I've never had my pocket-picked here in Madrid in my (nearly) 7-years of residence here, but I am very careful, too. I wear a shoulder bag everywhere and don't usually take it off in restaurants to eat unless I'm in the corner.

And don't worry so much about not looking like a Spaniard. Pick-pockets target EVERYONE, Spaniards and tourists alike. There are tourists everywhere in Madrid and they're pretty easy to spot, of course. Just keep your eyes open, your items in front of you, don't fall for distractions and you'll be fine.

There's definitely a visibly increased police presence because of the daily demonstrations, but that's not something you should worry about. The only possible discomfort of visiting Madrid these days is if your hotel is facing or adjacent to the Puerta del Sol or along the demonstration's march path.

I'm pretty confident you'll finish your visit to Madrid asking yourself, "What was I so worried about?!" Enjoy Madrid!

Saludos, MadridMan - an American in Madrid - @ you-know-where!!

PalenQ

I'm pretty confident you'll finish your visit to Madrid asking yourself, "What was I so worried about?!>

No they should realize that they should have been worried and being so in part was the reason they were not victimized.

folks who say there are absolutely no problems in Madrid are simply doing a bad disservice IMO and irresponsibly so.

You should worry in Madrid and if you do and take proper precautions yes you will probably not be victimized.

I understand where folks who live in Madrid get upset when outsiders are Cassandras but my information is reliable to me and Madrid poses many more problems of street crime than most European cities - even muggings unheard of practically outside of Spain.

<And don't worry so much about not looking like a Spaniard. Pick-pockets target EVERYONE, Spaniards and tourists alike>

pickpockets and muggers target tourists more I think than locals - locals are much more likely to be able to pursue claims than tourists who may have to be on the next train or plane out of town and I bet locals do not flash the family jewels around or intice thieves by having expensive cameras, watches, etc.

I was two years ago in a Madrid tourist office where a clerk simply told an American tourist who was wearing some kind of gold chain around her neck to absolutely do not wear that here - why did she tell her that MadridMan - the clerk went onto say there were many pickpockets and thieves working the Plaza Mayor area. I guess she was just misinformed and being a careless Cassandra like me>

No she was not - be very prudent in Madrid despite what some locals may say when they say there is no reason to take any precautions at all.

TonyBishop

@PalenQ. You seem to have categorised people into two groups: foreign tourists and "locals".

Thee is a third, and very significant, group of visitors to Madrid. Spanish tourists.

PalenQ

Ok fair enough - I think street criminals target those who they think are 1 - those exhibiting that they probably have the most to steal - fancy clothes, wearing jewels, gold chains, etc and 2- those they think the easiest marks. Yes makes no difference whether they are clueless Yanks of clueless Spaniards or clueless Catalonians or clueless Basques, etc.

Locals are also not dragging suitcases full of stuff thru the streets very much, looking at city maps, etc.