Madrid Street Safety
Jul 16th, 2012, 03:00 AM
#21
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The people who rob tourists with the very rarest of exceptions are professional thieves. Poor people rob each other or may possibly take advantage of an opportunity -- an obvious rental car in an empty street or the like. They are not the people who snatch bags from your feet or cameras from your cafe table. Those people are quite well compensated by their activities, a form of employment, if you will.
Jul 16th, 2012, 03:25 AM
#23
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My question was this.
"Are you suggesting that the average Spanish person is more likely to commit a crime because s/he is unemployed?"
Now if we assume that everyone on here, including lovely2c, falls into the "average" category, do you accept that if you were unemployed you would be more likely to rob a tourist?
I know several unemployed Spanish people here and my guess is robbing a tourist is the last thing on their minds.
As Ackislander says, people who rob tourists, with the very rarest of exceptions, are professional thieves.
"Are you suggesting that the average Spanish person is more likely to commit a crime because s/he is unemployed?"
Now if we assume that everyone on here, including lovely2c, falls into the "average" category, do you accept that if you were unemployed you would be more likely to rob a tourist?
I know several unemployed Spanish people here and my guess is robbing a tourist is the last thing on their minds.
As Ackislander says, people who rob tourists, with the very rarest of exceptions, are professional thieves.
Jul 16th, 2012, 05:09 AM
#24
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TonyBishop- I've never been unemployed (unless I wanted to be). But if I were unemployed, out of money and desperate, I really don't know what I would do. Today's Wall St Journal has an article about Spain discussing the possibility of entering Madrid into the contest for an Olympics and an editorial describing the Spanish government's tax/legal/social requirements imposed upon its businesses and citizens. Both articles state the youth unemployment rate is 52%. If I were a youth, especially an educated one, mired within a 52% unemployment rate then petty crime might look like a very attractive profession.
As for tourists' perception, one only needs to see what has happened to the tourism trade in Greece, especially in Athens.
As for tourists' perception, one only needs to see what has happened to the tourism trade in Greece, especially in Athens.
Jul 16th, 2012, 05:17 AM
#25
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Reading this with interest - but I have to admit, if I was unemployed I wouldnt bother stealing stuff from tourists - what on earth would I do with a camera, iPhone, laptop or someone's passport?? I honestly wouldnt have a clue how to use these to get money! Who do you call or take them to? How can you be sure there is even cash in a wallet nowadays (I dont carry cash at all)...
I think I would probably turn to something like shoplifting - at least I would get what I could use...
I hope I never have to be put in that situation
I think I would probably turn to something like shoplifting - at least I would get what I could use...
I hope I never have to be put in that situation
Jul 16th, 2012, 05:35 AM
#26
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@lovely2c. So are you in fact saying that if you were unemployed you would start stealing from tourists? Because that is the implication.
I don´t think you would. And I think that you would look for other measures, honest or dishonest. At least I hope you would.
There is absolutely NO academic research that connects theft from tourists with unemployment. So everything else is purely anecdotal.
In your original post you asked:
"Anybody have any recent experiences (good or bad) they can share?" In my reply on Jul 15, 12 at 7:41pm I answered that question as best as I could. Not Madrid, I grant you, but things are pretty bad in Málaga and Seville, probably worse than in Madrid.
I trust you are not suggesting that the Spanish are more likely to start robbing tourists when they are unemployed than are other nationalities, such as Americans. But if my trust is misplaced, I suggest you state that outright.
I don´t think you would. And I think that you would look for other measures, honest or dishonest. At least I hope you would.
There is absolutely NO academic research that connects theft from tourists with unemployment. So everything else is purely anecdotal.
In your original post you asked:
"Anybody have any recent experiences (good or bad) they can share?" In my reply on Jul 15, 12 at 7:41pm I answered that question as best as I could. Not Madrid, I grant you, but things are pretty bad in Málaga and Seville, probably worse than in Madrid.
I trust you are not suggesting that the Spanish are more likely to start robbing tourists when they are unemployed than are other nationalities, such as Americans. But if my trust is misplaced, I suggest you state that outright.
Jul 16th, 2012, 06:15 AM
#28
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I would probably begin hitting politicians, rather than robbing unsuspecting tourists. I have a loooong list, and they belong to all parties, let´s not discriminate 
And, as jamikins has pointed out, the biggest problem right now is the increase in shoplifting at supermarkets and the likes.
Bye, Cova
And, as jamikins has pointed out, the biggest problem right now is the increase in shoplifting at supermarkets and the likes.
Bye, Cova
Jul 16th, 2012, 06:21 AM
#29
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I do think this subject merits further serious discussion. If someone thinks the economic situation is going to turn Spaniards into marauding hordes, then there nothing reasonable that can change their minds.
Jul 16th, 2012, 06:31 AM
#30
Based on some of the issues discussed above I should never have holidayed in Mororcco, Libya, Tunisia, Syria, where unemployment is rife and yet amazingly I've not been stolen from.
It is not poverty that leads to theft. It is a mind set that sees other's property as your own that does.
OP please go to Spain, just take care on Las Ramblas in Barcelona.
It is not poverty that leads to theft. It is a mind set that sees other's property as your own that does.
OP please go to Spain, just take care on Las Ramblas in Barcelona.
Jul 16th, 2012, 07:34 AM
#31
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"It is not poverty that leads to theft. It is a mind set that sees other's property as your own that does."
I think that sums it up quite nicely.
Hey, we´re hard up. There´s a tourist - let´s rob him/her.
How?
I dunno.
What should we steal?
I dunno the answer to that either.
Aww, let´s leave that to the professionals who at least know what they´re doing.
Yep, I think you´re right.
I think that sums it up quite nicely.
Hey, we´re hard up. There´s a tourist - let´s rob him/her.
How?
I dunno.
What should we steal?
I dunno the answer to that either.
Aww, let´s leave that to the professionals who at least know what they´re doing.
Yep, I think you´re right.
Jul 16th, 2012, 07:55 AM
#32
As for tourists' perception, one only needs to see what has happened to the tourism trade in Greece, especially in Athens.>>
a good friend just got back from a month in Greece. she said that apart from Athens, Greece is open for business as usual. everyone busy and going about their normal lives. that are learning to live with the new reality, but there are no great demonstrations or the collapse of greek civilisation. no crime explosion. sounds like a good time to go.
a good friend just got back from a month in Greece. she said that apart from Athens, Greece is open for business as usual. everyone busy and going about their normal lives. that are learning to live with the new reality, but there are no great demonstrations or the collapse of greek civilisation. no crime explosion. sounds like a good time to go.
Jul 16th, 2012, 08:10 AM
#34
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'I trust you are not suggesting that the Spanish are more likely to start robbing tourists when they are unemployed than are other nationalities, such as Americans. But if my trust is misplaced, I suggest you state that outright.'
I also trust that's the case, but somehow I doubt it. It wouldn't be the first time that something like that is stated in this forum.
I also trust that's the case, but somehow I doubt it. It wouldn't be the first time that something like that is stated in this forum.
Jul 16th, 2012, 08:20 AM
#35
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. Anybody have any recent experiences (good or bad) they can share?>
My sister-in-law was mugged, violently, one Sunday morning - early in front of Atocha train station - she was not wearing any jewelry, had an expensive camera or anything - but she did have a day pack on and the thief wanted to get the bag - he knocked her down into the street and tried to get the day pack off - my sis-in-law also tried to get the day pack off to let the guy have it as it had nothing of value in it but she could not - she ended up bruised and bloodied.
Nearby shopkeepers opening shops stood by and did nothing.
And if you Google muggings in Madrid you will get zillions of similar experiences in Madrid and Barcelona. Rare for Europe where there are lots of pickpockets everywhere but rarely muggings.
Take proper precautions - and many folks above say they have never experienced any problems so it is not like it will happen but just that in Madrid it is a real problem, regardless of how some may either not realize it or gloss it over for some reason.
My sister-in-law was mugged, violently, one Sunday morning - early in front of Atocha train station - she was not wearing any jewelry, had an expensive camera or anything - but she did have a day pack on and the thief wanted to get the bag - he knocked her down into the street and tried to get the day pack off - my sis-in-law also tried to get the day pack off to let the guy have it as it had nothing of value in it but she could not - she ended up bruised and bloodied.
Nearby shopkeepers opening shops stood by and did nothing.
And if you Google muggings in Madrid you will get zillions of similar experiences in Madrid and Barcelona. Rare for Europe where there are lots of pickpockets everywhere but rarely muggings.
Take proper precautions - and many folks above say they have never experienced any problems so it is not like it will happen but just that in Madrid it is a real problem, regardless of how some may either not realize it or gloss it over for some reason.
Jul 16th, 2012, 08:41 AM
#37
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PalenQ. That is a very sad tale. My comiserations to your sister-in-law.
I don´t suppose s/he said they were unemployed, or that it was his/her first or 100th theft, did they?
By the way, can anybody satisfactorily define "mugging"? It seems to mean a lot of things to different people. One dictionary defines mugging as "an assault with intent to rob".
But I have seen the word "mugging" used to describe all kinds of theft, regardless of whether the theft was accompanied by violence or not.
I don´t suppose s/he said they were unemployed, or that it was his/her first or 100th theft, did they?
By the way, can anybody satisfactorily define "mugging"? It seems to mean a lot of things to different people. One dictionary defines mugging as "an assault with intent to rob".
But I have seen the word "mugging" used to describe all kinds of theft, regardless of whether the theft was accompanied by violence or not.
Jul 16th, 2012, 09:41 AM
#38
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'And if you Google muggings in Madrid you will get zillions of similar experiences in Madrid and Barcelona. Rare for Europe where there are lots of pickpockets everywhere but rarely muggings.' You will also find zillions of similar stories if you google mugged in London/ in New York / in Paris / in Miami... Of course, only people who have had any problems post it on the net. No one whites ' i went to ..... And wasn't mugged'.
I'm very sorry about your sister in law, but that could have happened anywhere. Unfortunately, there are thieves in all cities. The question here is that it seems to be suggested that unemployed people in Madrid are turning into criminals, and that's not so. It's bad enough to have economic problems and idiot poticians who can't solve them. We don't need to be tagged as criminals just because we have those problems.
I'm very sorry about your sister in law, but that could have happened anywhere. Unfortunately, there are thieves in all cities. The question here is that it seems to be suggested that unemployed people in Madrid are turning into criminals, and that's not so. It's bad enough to have economic problems and idiot poticians who can't solve them. We don't need to be tagged as criminals just because we have those problems.
