I see on Transport for London's web site that Cross Rail, the long planned and anticipated but delayed rapid Parisian RER-type metro that will slice across central London, may well become a reality as it seems everything is finally in place.

Whilst i know little of how Londoners feel about this or care really for the tourist it will finally present some really rapid transit in London - much like the Jubilee Line Extension to Stratford has done.

Folks landing at Heathrow will find Cross Rail to provide a quicker way to say go to central London (and not just Paddington where the Heathrow Express now terminates) and to eastern London - Cross Rail indeed i believe extends from way west of central London, then burrows under central London then continues onto to far eastern London.

Anyway it seems London is finally to get a true rapid transit system much like Paris and German cities, with their S-Bahns, have. IMO London's Tube is already the best urban transit system in Europe - in terms of frequency of service and sheer number of lines and stations and Cross Rail promises to bring it into the 21st century.

Now i admit, before being excoriated by Londoners, to not knowing all the details but as a tourist at least it will be a welcome development - hopefully also relieving some already overcrowded at many times Tube lines.

Crossrail Act
Cross London Rail Links (CLRL) or Crossrail, as they are generally known, is a 50/50 joint venture company, owned by Transport for London (TfL) and the ...
www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/crossrail/

Crossrail, Cross London Rail Links, United Kingdom - Railway ...
Crossrail has been promoted by Cross London Rail Links, a joint venture company formed by Transport for London (TfL) and the Strategic Rail Authority (SRA), ...
www.railway-technology.com/projects/crossrail/

Crossrail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was jointly owned by Transport for London and the Department for Transport until December 2008, when full ownership was transferred to TfL. Crossrail has ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossrail

Crossrail v the Tube: Projects at war | The Economist
May 21, 2009 ... CROSSRAIL, a planned cross-London train service that would link ... the urgency to build Crossrail (and further weakens TfL financially, ...
http://www.economist.com/world/brita...ry_id=13707704 -
Rail | Transport for London
Oyster pay as you go will be accepted on all National Rail journeys ... Phase 2 will complete the London Overground network and create an orbital railway ... Related websites: LOROL · Passenger Focus · Crossrail · National Rail · London Travel Watch ... Elsewhere on tfl.gov.uk. Journey Planner · Live travel news ...
www.tfl.gov.uk/modalpages/2688.aspx -

I also note that the above site says that the fantastic Oyster Card scheme will be operatable on all National Rail Lines in greater London - as someone who stays often in the Eltham area, with only the Overground or National Rail to use this is welcome news - the past few years Oyster Cards could not be used.

I'm afraid you're getting hold of the wrong end of several sticks:

1. There's no immediate plan to extend Oyster to all National Rail in the London area. The site you reference is about a concession, today and yesterday, to let Oyster cardholders use trains while the tube strike was going on.

2. Crossrail WON'T automatically mean direct trains from Heathrow to anywhere other than Paddington. It WILL create direct trains from Maidenhead to Tottenham Court Rd, Bond St and Liverpool St, and allow easy connections at a new, below-ground, Paddington interchange between Heathrow trains and Crossrail. But trains from Maidenhead to central London won't stop at Heathrow. And there's no westbound link from Heathrow via Crossrail, though there's a loonie plan to create a new rail link to Reading from Heathrow via Feltham.

3. That means the single major gap in Europe's railway system - a direct train from the Cotswolds to Heathrow - still won't be plugged.But it WILL be easier to get from the Cotswolds to Eurostar, Stansted and Luton

4. Crossrail isn't really the answer to anything, except that it's extra capacity and every little helps.

Bummer - no Oyster card services, perhaps, at New Eltham station? Hopefully that is one station that may have installed them since a year ago? Thanks for the correction.

>>There's no immediate plan to extend Oyster to all National Rail in the London area<<

Eh? I rather understood that at least TfL and the national rail companies had agreed to extend Oyster PAYG machinery to all the relevant national rail stations: though I admit I don't recall whether or what the timeframe was going to be.

It's company by company.

I've not seen any plans by Southern, the Heathrow Connect or Chiltern.

I know SouthWestern trains has actually installed card readers out as far as Hampton Wick at least, and have read that they'll also be accepted on the Thames Clippers boats - apparently as of November.

I think the Jubilee line extension was as much about providing the rabble south of the river with better transport links, as getting a high speed route across the capital.

I don't think it's any quicker to get off the Central Line at Stratford and get the Jubilee to Bond Street, than it is to stay in your seat and go via Liverpool St.

>>I think the Jubilee line extension was as much about providing the rabble south of the river with better transport links, as getting a high speed route across the capital. <<

It was also about making sure there were enough rabble able to get to Canary Wharf to make it pay: which is why the developers put in umpteen million.

How about Jubilee to get to North Greenwich and the Millennium Dome (a k a now as O2 i think)- LOL!

flanner talks about Oyster Card use and the Chilterns line, etc - would the Oyster Card be able to be used outside of TfL's coverage or just on stations inside greater London on those lines?

curious as i thought Oyster Card was only for use within the zones of TfL? Makes sense to use it outside of the zones, of course.

It's intended for the TfL zones, but in principle I suppose there's no reason why the software couldn't be adapted to cover whatever stations on whatever lines. I think the problem was that the national rail companies didn't want to adopt an expensive new technology in their stations, and might have had other contenders in mind.

thanks Patrick - it seems odd that two years ago at least the New Eltham station (Southeast Trains i believe) had Oyster-type scanners installed but were always taped over. It could be these things were for some Southeast train card though.

None of the train companies have active, published plans for alternative Oyster-style payment systems.

And there's been no public talk of using Oyster for any other significant form of transport in Britain outside the TfL area.

The railway pricing structure for journeys outside the TfL area is notoriously complicated - and it's complicated for extremely good reasons. Changing the pricing structure loses governments seats in Parliament, because of the time-honoured principle that those who suffer from change moan a lot more than the beneficiaries cheer. Oyster's not intended to deal with a system where the passenger chooses which price to pay.

The geniuses that designed Crossrail have ensured that not only does it not connect with Heathrow (despite passing nearby) it also doesn't connect to any of the main train stations in London except Paddington.

Alan's point is unfair. And characteristic of the insularity of those living in the Arctic Circle.

Crossrail's a suburban railway. For people in London's eastern and western suburbs, it offers better connections (at Paddington and Ealing Broadway) to other western commuter lines than at present, better connections (at Farringdon)than are currently available to lines for Brighton, Luton and Bedford and (changing at Clapham Junction) to Waterloo- and Victoria- served Southern and SouthWestern destinations, better connections (at Liverpool St) for Stansted, Cambridge and East Anglia and a better connection (at Stratford) for the Eurostar.

By avoiding the major London terminals, Crossrail reduces congestion at them, since people living east and west of London can make immediate connections to many lines to the north and south without using the tube or a terminal station.

There's little need for better links to the NorthWest, since the reconstruction of Reading station will improve access from east and west London to most places served by Euston.

So it's only destinations served from Kings Cross, and some Marylebone destinations, that Crossrail won't make access to any easier.

So - sweatysocks and turnip-munchers then? {Sorry, I seem to be channelling CW at the moment).

I also read that the East London Line's extension to Crystal Palace has to go ahead - using some old unused tunnels that exist i guess.

How about the Cross Tram scheme that would go thru the heart of London i believe over Waterloo Bridge?

The new East London line links the former London Transport East London line which terminated at New Cross and extends the service over the National Rail lines to Crystal Palace, Clapham Junction and West Croydon. There is a map at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...-extension.pdf.

The new service will use proper main-line type suburban trains rather than the former underground trains.

See, that's the problem with you Europeans, first you build a good inner-city mass transit system, then you start adding lines to other places. Why, here in the States, (ie Florida) we know how to do it...

1) Put in some buses in a city that may or may not go anywhere anyone wants to go. Make it real difficult to find routes and times.

2) Build a multi-billion dollar rail link between two cities, dropping folks off in areas they do not want to be in.

3) Wait a few years and say "See, mass transit is a crock, nobody rides"

4) Build a multi-billion dollar lite-rail system inside the same city that does little more than block traffic.

Gosh, when will you guys in Europe learn from us on how to do things like this properly...



dave

I think all proposed new British tram schemes (except the one linking Edinburgh airport with the city centre) are now off.

They all seem to cost a fortune, all end up disrupting their cities and really never seem to deliver any of the benefits (except getting money from the government the local incumbent party can wave about as an "achievement") they promised.