Londoners: Where would you live if you were a foreigner relocating?
Jul 29th, 2009, 05:29 PM
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many thanks to you all.
I have just returned from London and will spend the next couple of weeks checking out accomodation and areas.
I spent the second week of my stay in Canary Wharf and just love that fresh air and open skies.
I'll get back to you
Best regards ... Ger
I have just returned from London and will spend the next couple of weeks checking out accomodation and areas.
I spent the second week of my stay in Canary Wharf and just love that fresh air and open skies.
I'll get back to you
Best regards ... Ger
Jul 30th, 2009, 06:43 AM
#22
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well if you liked Canary Wharf, then suggest you also check out some similar riverside accommodation that's even closer to where you'll be working.
I was particularly thinking of between London Bridge and Tower Bridge on the south bank - but anywhere near there on the south side would be good. Would be a pleasant walk to work.
Snag is however, I don't know about either your budget, or the current prices since the economic downturn - so forgive me if these suggestions don't work-out price wise.
I was particularly thinking of between London Bridge and Tower Bridge on the south bank - but anywhere near there on the south side would be good. Would be a pleasant walk to work.
Snag is however, I don't know about either your budget, or the current prices since the economic downturn - so forgive me if these suggestions don't work-out price wise.
Jul 30th, 2009, 07:16 AM
#23
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you're thinking around that sort of area, check out the Docklands in London group on Facebook, and www.docklandsinlondon.co.uk (not spam, BTW, I'm not a member, and it's not a commercial site, just an online group for social networking for people in the area, with plenty of activities and events).
Jul 30th, 2009, 11:08 AM
#24
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have a think about Dulwich or East Dulwich. Neither has a tube line, but they do have mainline rail stations that will get you to London Bridge in about 12 mins, with services running from 0600ish till about 0025ish.
Dulwich Village is pretty and quiet and even a bit twee, but it is very pleasant. East Dulwich is the less rarefied area, with good Victorian and Edwardian housing stock, a good high street with shops, restaurants and services and a middle class, even artsy (in places) vibe.
Both benefit from lots of green spaces, a sense of community and better value for money, given they are south of the river and also without a tube station.
Both are in Zone 2 (though N Dulwich station, which is the one for Dulwich Village, is on the Zone 3 border). Expect to pay about £90 for a monthtly Zone 1 and 2 travel card which is good for the rail, buses and tubes within those zones.
Dulwich Village is pretty and quiet and even a bit twee, but it is very pleasant. East Dulwich is the less rarefied area, with good Victorian and Edwardian housing stock, a good high street with shops, restaurants and services and a middle class, even artsy (in places) vibe.
Both benefit from lots of green spaces, a sense of community and better value for money, given they are south of the river and also without a tube station.
Both are in Zone 2 (though N Dulwich station, which is the one for Dulwich Village, is on the Zone 3 border). Expect to pay about £90 for a monthtly Zone 1 and 2 travel card which is good for the rail, buses and tubes within those zones.
Aug 5th, 2009, 09:03 PM
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many thanks to you all; your assistance is proving invaluable in focusing my thoughts, although I am no closer to actually finding a place yet.
However, after exhaustive searches, I at least have a plan. Here are some thoughts:
Borders are very fluid in the letting market: With the aid of a map, I have figured out that apartments are not always in the area where the advertisement says they are; e.g. On close inspection many apartments advertised as Canary Wharf/West India Quay are actually in Millwall or Royal Docks and apartments in Pimlico are close to Victoria Station. This may not be a problem, but I want to inspect the location before committing to a six month lease.
“Gated Communities”: I spent months in Jo’burg (well, Santon – an upper-middle class community designed by Disney) living in ‘Gated Communities’ – an absolute necessity there, but not for London surely?. I have come across several listings in docklands that offer same. I can’t think why the builder thought this was necessary, but common sense dictates that it I should check out if it is safe for me to walk home alone at night from the train station, which I am quite sure it is.
So many areas I haven’t visited: Although I have visited in London dozens of times, I have always stayed in very central areas and have not explored areas such as Islington, Hampstead, Greenwich, St. John’s Woods, Clapham. There has always been too much to see and do in central London. I need to explore the ‘burbs
How much to pay?: I can pay as much or as little as I want, as I have quoted a fixed daily rate to the company and will pay my own expenses. I am trying to balance ‘profit’, with desire for gorgeous designer apartment with spectacular views. While I veer toward the expensive end of the scale, banker husband is encouraging me to be ‘sensible’. There is also the effect of the credit crunch to consider, particularly in Docklands: There is a glut of apartments, bought as investments in the ‘buy for let’ fiasco, and yet the letting prices do not appear to reflect the ‘supply-demand’ issue. As in, I don’t think the rental market has yet hit bottom.
Should I buy, rather than rent?: The real-estate slump, coupled with the relatively good exchange rate, might make this a good time to buy property, rather than rent.
All of the above has led me to the conclusion that would be unwise for me to rent ‘sight unseen’ for 6 months. I have decided to rent an apartment for a month, close to Canary Wharf, and in that time, explore the various areas, consider the “rent versus buy” scenario.
To be continued …
Regards … Ger
However, after exhaustive searches, I at least have a plan. Here are some thoughts:
Borders are very fluid in the letting market: With the aid of a map, I have figured out that apartments are not always in the area where the advertisement says they are; e.g. On close inspection many apartments advertised as Canary Wharf/West India Quay are actually in Millwall or Royal Docks and apartments in Pimlico are close to Victoria Station. This may not be a problem, but I want to inspect the location before committing to a six month lease.
“Gated Communities”: I spent months in Jo’burg (well, Santon – an upper-middle class community designed by Disney) living in ‘Gated Communities’ – an absolute necessity there, but not for London surely?. I have come across several listings in docklands that offer same. I can’t think why the builder thought this was necessary, but common sense dictates that it I should check out if it is safe for me to walk home alone at night from the train station, which I am quite sure it is.
So many areas I haven’t visited: Although I have visited in London dozens of times, I have always stayed in very central areas and have not explored areas such as Islington, Hampstead, Greenwich, St. John’s Woods, Clapham. There has always been too much to see and do in central London. I need to explore the ‘burbs
How much to pay?: I can pay as much or as little as I want, as I have quoted a fixed daily rate to the company and will pay my own expenses. I am trying to balance ‘profit’, with desire for gorgeous designer apartment with spectacular views. While I veer toward the expensive end of the scale, banker husband is encouraging me to be ‘sensible’. There is also the effect of the credit crunch to consider, particularly in Docklands: There is a glut of apartments, bought as investments in the ‘buy for let’ fiasco, and yet the letting prices do not appear to reflect the ‘supply-demand’ issue. As in, I don’t think the rental market has yet hit bottom.
Should I buy, rather than rent?: The real-estate slump, coupled with the relatively good exchange rate, might make this a good time to buy property, rather than rent.
All of the above has led me to the conclusion that would be unwise for me to rent ‘sight unseen’ for 6 months. I have decided to rent an apartment for a month, close to Canary Wharf, and in that time, explore the various areas, consider the “rent versus buy” scenario.
To be continued …
Regards … Ger
Aug 6th, 2009, 12:03 AM
#26
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regarding buying vs renting:
As a foreigner you can draw a tax benefit from applying for a non-domiciled resident status. Basically you have to credibly show that you are still rooted in your foreign community and that you spend a certain percentage of your time outside the U.K. A respective percentage of your salary can then be paid U.K. tax-free into an offshore account. You need to be aware, though, that you cannot bring that money onshore in the U.K. again unless you pay tax on it.
However, the non-dom status prevents you from acquiring real-estate.
Rents in prime locations and desirable properties are still fairly stable (there could be quite a few people more renting now that previously would have bought an apartment), but I figure you may be able to negotiate a 10% discount to advertised rents as a rule of thumb.
As a foreigner you can draw a tax benefit from applying for a non-domiciled resident status. Basically you have to credibly show that you are still rooted in your foreign community and that you spend a certain percentage of your time outside the U.K. A respective percentage of your salary can then be paid U.K. tax-free into an offshore account. You need to be aware, though, that you cannot bring that money onshore in the U.K. again unless you pay tax on it.
However, the non-dom status prevents you from acquiring real-estate.
Rents in prime locations and desirable properties are still fairly stable (there could be quite a few people more renting now that previously would have bought an apartment), but I figure you may be able to negotiate a 10% discount to advertised rents as a rule of thumb.
Aug 6th, 2009, 01:29 AM
#27
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think all residents would support your approach of visiting and checking out the area, the actual distance at your speed of walking from the relevant transport, how safe it feels, if there are adequate local shops for a comfortable single existence, ie you can decide to go out on a whim and so may need to buy something to eat also on a whim.
Can't comment on Canary Wharf gated communities, my personal impression is that it was originally a desert. The gates are partly to protect underground parking but also some of the most expensive flats are owned by people who jet in for a few days a month and so they need someone to help keep it secure in their absence. This description from a friend who visited her friend in one of those blocks.
Estate Agents opt for the most favourable name they can think of for an area. Once you are flat hunting you need the biggest London map you can find. It is true that some areas change very quickly in character within a few streets. At least you don't need to find a flat close to a particular school. Do try and visit an area on foot, it is quite deceptive if the estate agent swishes you up to the property in a car, you don't get the feel for a neighbourhood.
Unless you are a workaholic I would consider your journeys backwards and forwards from any entertainment that you favour.
Rents have not diminished very much, it is more that they have not gone up. There is a limited supply and younger people are having to rent for longer before they can buy.
Can't comment on Canary Wharf gated communities, my personal impression is that it was originally a desert. The gates are partly to protect underground parking but also some of the most expensive flats are owned by people who jet in for a few days a month and so they need someone to help keep it secure in their absence. This description from a friend who visited her friend in one of those blocks.
Estate Agents opt for the most favourable name they can think of for an area. Once you are flat hunting you need the biggest London map you can find. It is true that some areas change very quickly in character within a few streets. At least you don't need to find a flat close to a particular school. Do try and visit an area on foot, it is quite deceptive if the estate agent swishes you up to the property in a car, you don't get the feel for a neighbourhood.
Unless you are a workaholic I would consider your journeys backwards and forwards from any entertainment that you favour.
Rents have not diminished very much, it is more that they have not gone up. There is a limited supply and younger people are having to rent for longer before they can buy.
Aug 6th, 2009, 01:36 AM
#28
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I second Helen's advice about maps. Get an A-Z (from any bookshop or a lot of corner shops) as soon as you can. Check the full postal code or street address for anywhere that's being suggested on www.streetmap.co.uk, and then use the A-Z to find your way there and around.
Aug 6th, 2009, 05:02 AM
#29
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh goody. Here's my thoughts (take them as they are - this is the honest opinion of a policeman in London. Others will disagree. Many, very much):
Canary Wharf/Docklands: Why? You could be in Singapore/Abu Dhabi/Frankfurt or any other souless place. It ain't cheap either. Surely if you want to live in London (and posting here implies you do) you don't want to live in some sterile wasteland?
Gated communities: We don't really do these - although in places like docklands (full of scaredy wankers) they have private security.
>>>>and have not explored areas such as Islington, Hampstead, Greenwich, St. John’s Woods, Clapham. >>>
Islington: Knobbers
Hampstead: Richer knobbers
Greenwich: Under no circumstances. I can't go into detail 'cos I work there, but put it this way. None of my colleagues live near there.
St Johns Wood: Boring. Full of foreigns.
Clapham: Not for a big clock; and unless you are about 25 and love cocaine i'd give it a miss.
Go to bloody Pimlico. You'll love it.
CW - happy to help. Lives in Blackheath and has to be restrained at times before I batter a knobber.
Canary Wharf/Docklands: Why? You could be in Singapore/Abu Dhabi/Frankfurt or any other souless place. It ain't cheap either. Surely if you want to live in London (and posting here implies you do) you don't want to live in some sterile wasteland?
Gated communities: We don't really do these - although in places like docklands (full of scaredy wankers) they have private security.
>>>>and have not explored areas such as Islington, Hampstead, Greenwich, St. John’s Woods, Clapham. >>>
Islington: Knobbers
Hampstead: Richer knobbers
Greenwich: Under no circumstances. I can't go into detail 'cos I work there, but put it this way. None of my colleagues live near there.
St Johns Wood: Boring. Full of foreigns.
Clapham: Not for a big clock; and unless you are about 25 and love cocaine i'd give it a miss.
Go to bloody Pimlico. You'll love it.
CW - happy to help. Lives in Blackheath and has to be restrained at times before I batter a knobber.
Aug 11th, 2009, 06:32 PM
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you all again for your advice and I will respond in more detail. I am rather caught up at the minute with the exhaustive security check my prospective client is performing, basically proving my whereabouts since I emerged from the womb!
So, as I said before, I have settled on the docklands to stay for the first few weeks as I settle in and will then have the opportunity to explore some of the areas you have recommended, and looking for 'knobbers', 'scary wankers" and other local fauna mentioned by CW
I have culled the list of flats down to a few. A few are near Canary Wharf (New Providence Wharf area) and one is way over in Royal Victoria Docks. I have never been over that side at all. Any comments on the latter? Itr is close to the Novotel on Western Gate.
Mank thanks ... Ger
So, as I said before, I have settled on the docklands to stay for the first few weeks as I settle in and will then have the opportunity to explore some of the areas you have recommended, and looking for 'knobbers', 'scary wankers" and other local fauna mentioned by CW
I have culled the list of flats down to a few. A few are near Canary Wharf (New Providence Wharf area) and one is way over in Royal Victoria Docks. I have never been over that side at all. Any comments on the latter? Itr is close to the Novotel on Western Gate.
Mank thanks ... Ger
Aug 12th, 2009, 02:11 AM
#33
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Royal Victoria Docks is that much further east, and that much further from your work and anywhere you'd want to travel to for your explorations of other areas, as well as for entertainment (and you would want to travel, believe me). It's right on top of London City Airport and near the Excel exhibition centre (which can attract lots of traffic at times, and is dead at others).
Aug 12th, 2009, 03:15 AM
#34
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the politest definition of CW's description of the people in north London neighbourhoods is that they are pretentious, possibly snobbish, idiots. Some are and some are genuinely nice people.
Most areas are reasonably cosmoplitan in London but it is true that St Johns Wood is probably above averagely "foreign". This is partly because of the presence of the American School and partly because it has a higher than average number of purpose built blocks of flats, which are more appreciated by non-local people. As a result the local shops are good and have an interesting array of food. You are also a short bus ride from Selfridges food hall.
Another attraction of St Johsn Wood for some of the "foreigners" is the fast route into Canary Wharf especially for the younger people working in the financial sector, although it is clear that many firms have pulled back their staff to their home country. If you are a cricket fanatic there are some flats with views over Lords Cricket Ground
House and flat prices are really unpredictable. Some speculative developments that were overpriced will have to cut the price or offer them for rent. In other areas the prices are static, there is a shortage of available properties and many people are staying put as they can't work out what the current values are. If you want to buy IMO you really need to know and like an area.
Most areas are reasonably cosmoplitan in London but it is true that St Johns Wood is probably above averagely "foreign". This is partly because of the presence of the American School and partly because it has a higher than average number of purpose built blocks of flats, which are more appreciated by non-local people. As a result the local shops are good and have an interesting array of food. You are also a short bus ride from Selfridges food hall.
Another attraction of St Johsn Wood for some of the "foreigners" is the fast route into Canary Wharf especially for the younger people working in the financial sector, although it is clear that many firms have pulled back their staff to their home country. If you are a cricket fanatic there are some flats with views over Lords Cricket Ground
House and flat prices are really unpredictable. Some speculative developments that were overpriced will have to cut the price or offer them for rent. In other areas the prices are static, there is a shortage of available properties and many people are staying put as they can't work out what the current values are. If you want to buy IMO you really need to know and like an area.
Aug 12th, 2009, 07:18 AM
#35
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Knobber- Nathan Barleys, and anyone else who's well jackson.
If they are male and have hair that sticks up - they are a knobber. Batter them. Please. Please please please. They make me killy.
ps Docklands isn't full of scarey wankers - ie wankers who are frightening, it's full of scaredy wankers - ie wankers who are frightened. Frightened of the dole moles, crackheads, scratters, scuffers, NHI scum that also live there.
CW - not at one with his fellow man at the moment. I may need some crystals (quartz or meth - either would probably help).
If they are male and have hair that sticks up - they are a knobber. Batter them. Please. Please please please. They make me killy.
ps Docklands isn't full of scarey wankers - ie wankers who are frightening, it's full of scaredy wankers - ie wankers who are frightened. Frightened of the dole moles, crackheads, scratters, scuffers, NHI scum that also live there.
CW - not at one with his fellow man at the moment. I may need some crystals (quartz or meth - either would probably help).
Aug 12th, 2009, 10:42 PM
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello all:
Your advice has been invaluable and I am very grateful: You have given me much to consider over the next month. Replying to each of you specifically:
Helen: Good questions and suggestions. I intend to explore St. John’s Woods and other areas in NW London before making a decision. I am a museum/art gallery/ quiet diner person, and not a likely to go clubbing every night. I am a workaholic, so will likely work late most nights in my home, so therefore my abode must be somewhere I want to spend time. My mood is hugely influenced by my surroundings, so the environment must be gorgeous. The commute issue is something I have to consider, from a work perspective.
The ‘rent versus buy” decision will be based on the decision re where I am going to work for the next three years. The current position is contract – up to 6 months (on the table from the client), but might only last only a month (they only need to give me a couple of weeks notice, as is normal), hence my decision to rent for a month to see how the job goes. During that time, I will check out other opportunities and decide if working in London is viable. The current economic uncertainty (I do not subscribe to the ‘green shoots of recovery’ theory) makes it very difficult to plan a longer term strategy.
Janis: I like Pimlico, but have not explored it very much. Location is perfect and it appears to offer the ‘village’ atmosphere I like. Again, one of the areas I will explore. Initial searches on the area suggests there are few apartments available for 6 month leases. Love your suggestion re St. Katherine’s Marina and Wapping and will also explore. Again, there does not appear to be much available. I like Southwark, but not a lot available. Bermondsey: I must have only seen the worst bits (driving though in a limo to the airport). London friends, who admittedly left in the 80’s before gentrification, look aghast when I suggest it, like I am suggesting moving to Mogadishu or Finglas (drug-den in Dublin). Clearly I need to find out more about the area.
ssachida: When I move, we should meet up! Don’t know your area at all! Where should I start exploring? My sister, who lived in London for years, recommended “Angel” . Thanks for www.loot.com - this is a new one for me. Will avoid Deptford .
Patrick: “ look at the journey times rather than distances”: I agree – the Underground travel planner is my VBF. Your area sounds perfect, and I would welcome ‘quiet’ at the weekends – can you give me a general location please? Interesting that Bermondsey keeps coming up as I had discounted it as ‘iffy”, based on friends from London that left in the 80’s. I am interested in Greenwich, but have not visited. I would welcome your impressions.
hsv: “ base yourself reasonably close to work”:
Sensible advice! I agree, I am there for work, so I want to minimize the commute, at least for the first two months, and concentrate on work, so I can get more of it which is why I have decided to rent for a month before I decide where to live on a long-term basis. I am checking out the area you suggest and absolutely love the area. On my last evening in London I had an interview at a riverside pub near Blackfriars Station and then walked to London Bridge: A glorious sunny summer evening that showed London at its very best. I really want the water views! Interesting advice on the tax issue also – I will see an accountant when I get to the UK.
getoffthelobster: Great website – WOW, this is something I have been wishing for! Many thanks. Chortling here at the vision of MOI, in suit and high heels on a bike, negotiating London traffic – not EVER!. You are so right about the 6 month Plus rental premium. Most agencies want a 50% markup for less than 6 months, which is not acceptable. More on that later, as I negotiate. Once again Bermondsey is mentioned!
Flanner: Excellent advice, as always. Your story about the Great Train Robber is a classic!
You define my “iffy” perfectly – its about feeling safe walking home late at night. Yes, preferably I want single line commute, no changes, no buses, walking is OK. Yes, at least for the first month, I want to be within walking distance to the office. Good point, as I walk the dogs for at least and hour a day and would need to do same to maintain my health and weight. I also do time in grisly gym. RE Noise: This is why I am drawn to Canary Wharf – no traffic, no noise. Your advice re ‘purpose-built’ flats re conversions hits home and has helped me discount a lot of flats. In my price range, Chelsea offers either sub-grade apartments (former kitchen) or loft, and although I love Regency architecture, I don’t want to live like a scullery maid. I will check out Islington.
I meant “foreigner” in the sense that I know London as a visitor, not as a resident. The value I get from you locals is regarding where streets go from ‘nice’ to ‘iffy’ and from ‘iffy’ to ‘bloody awful sink estate 20 yards down the road’. As in, I am often shocked at some of the hotels in Dublin City centre advertised as “within walking of all major attractions”: Sure they are, but if you want to feel safe, you should be packing an AK-47!
CW: Amusing and colorful commentary indeed!
As I said before, Bermondsey is not an area I thought of, because I only know it as where Jane Goody grew up (RIP) and thought it full of council flats and generally dismal. Rest assured, I am not afraid of being attacked by rabidly boring bankers, but do think it sensible to be scared of crackheads. The draw for me in the docklands is the water. I currently live in a house with a grand view of the Sea, and that is something I would miss.
Is Belsize Park any more pricy than Canary Wharf which I find outrageously expensive. I can’t comment on the London suburbs, because I have never been to any, but I suppose I should consider if I will be here long-term, if I need to decide among city, suburb or country.
I am still considering Pimlico, but having done some searches, there does not seem to be much available in my wants/price bracket.
Blackheath, you can help me with. My ex-Londoner friend waxed poetic about Blackheath – he lived there during the ‘70s (former hippie-doody type who morphed into 1980’s banker) and loved it. I have searched on real estate sites and get everything from Greenwich to Docklands. You are living there, so clearly you must like it and would recommend it. So, can you give me some insights into the area? My good pal Kavey & I can come visit and you can show us around.
Martian: I also like that area between London Bridge and Southwark, but don’t know Kennington – another are I should explore.
Patrick: Many thanks for the websites. I finally found an agency that was willing to work with me on getting a lower rent for a short-let. I hope to finalize tomorrow. I have taken your advice regarding the Royal Docks and am keeping as close to Canary Wharf as possible.
Nigello, I checked out Dulwich on your recommendation, but have found little of interest. I think this is one of those areas where I would need to work with a local agent. This will give me the opportunity to visit the Dulwich gallery, which I have been meaning to check out for a while. Good suggestion.
Hello Mimi! Hope you and Pastis are well. xoxo
Sheila dear: Absolutely! I checked out transportation today. I assume you jest about the bus (10 hours!). I can get flights from London City Airport to Dundee and then drive to Aberdeen (a scary option for the populace of Scotland), or direct flights to Aberdeen with BMI. I had hoped to take the train, but apparently it takes between 8-10 hours – surely this can’t be true? Anyway, once I get settled, we can fix a date.
BTW: I know CW is being a bit naughty. In his defence, I do understand where he is coming from re the “underbelly” targeting specific affluent areas, that have hitherto been considered safe, to pray on easy targets. There have been a few violent muggings in the past few weeks on ‘celebrity women’ that have hit the press.
I hope by tomorrow to have finalized negotiations on an apartment for the first month. I had better, as I am flying on Tuesday next!
Best regards .. Ger
Your advice has been invaluable and I am very grateful: You have given me much to consider over the next month. Replying to each of you specifically:
Helen: Good questions and suggestions. I intend to explore St. John’s Woods and other areas in NW London before making a decision. I am a museum/art gallery/ quiet diner person, and not a likely to go clubbing every night. I am a workaholic, so will likely work late most nights in my home, so therefore my abode must be somewhere I want to spend time. My mood is hugely influenced by my surroundings, so the environment must be gorgeous. The commute issue is something I have to consider, from a work perspective.
The ‘rent versus buy” decision will be based on the decision re where I am going to work for the next three years. The current position is contract – up to 6 months (on the table from the client), but might only last only a month (they only need to give me a couple of weeks notice, as is normal), hence my decision to rent for a month to see how the job goes. During that time, I will check out other opportunities and decide if working in London is viable. The current economic uncertainty (I do not subscribe to the ‘green shoots of recovery’ theory) makes it very difficult to plan a longer term strategy.
Janis: I like Pimlico, but have not explored it very much. Location is perfect and it appears to offer the ‘village’ atmosphere I like. Again, one of the areas I will explore. Initial searches on the area suggests there are few apartments available for 6 month leases. Love your suggestion re St. Katherine’s Marina and Wapping and will also explore. Again, there does not appear to be much available. I like Southwark, but not a lot available. Bermondsey: I must have only seen the worst bits (driving though in a limo to the airport). London friends, who admittedly left in the 80’s before gentrification, look aghast when I suggest it, like I am suggesting moving to Mogadishu or Finglas (drug-den in Dublin). Clearly I need to find out more about the area.
ssachida: When I move, we should meet up! Don’t know your area at all! Where should I start exploring? My sister, who lived in London for years, recommended “Angel” . Thanks for www.loot.com - this is a new one for me. Will avoid Deptford .
Patrick: “ look at the journey times rather than distances”: I agree – the Underground travel planner is my VBF. Your area sounds perfect, and I would welcome ‘quiet’ at the weekends – can you give me a general location please? Interesting that Bermondsey keeps coming up as I had discounted it as ‘iffy”, based on friends from London that left in the 80’s. I am interested in Greenwich, but have not visited. I would welcome your impressions.
hsv: “ base yourself reasonably close to work”:
Sensible advice! I agree, I am there for work, so I want to minimize the commute, at least for the first two months, and concentrate on work, so I can get more of it which is why I have decided to rent for a month before I decide where to live on a long-term basis. I am checking out the area you suggest and absolutely love the area. On my last evening in London I had an interview at a riverside pub near Blackfriars Station and then walked to London Bridge: A glorious sunny summer evening that showed London at its very best. I really want the water views! Interesting advice on the tax issue also – I will see an accountant when I get to the UK.
getoffthelobster: Great website – WOW, this is something I have been wishing for! Many thanks. Chortling here at the vision of MOI, in suit and high heels on a bike, negotiating London traffic – not EVER!. You are so right about the 6 month Plus rental premium. Most agencies want a 50% markup for less than 6 months, which is not acceptable. More on that later, as I negotiate. Once again Bermondsey is mentioned!
Flanner: Excellent advice, as always. Your story about the Great Train Robber is a classic!
You define my “iffy” perfectly – its about feeling safe walking home late at night. Yes, preferably I want single line commute, no changes, no buses, walking is OK. Yes, at least for the first month, I want to be within walking distance to the office. Good point, as I walk the dogs for at least and hour a day and would need to do same to maintain my health and weight. I also do time in grisly gym. RE Noise: This is why I am drawn to Canary Wharf – no traffic, no noise. Your advice re ‘purpose-built’ flats re conversions hits home and has helped me discount a lot of flats. In my price range, Chelsea offers either sub-grade apartments (former kitchen) or loft, and although I love Regency architecture, I don’t want to live like a scullery maid. I will check out Islington.
I meant “foreigner” in the sense that I know London as a visitor, not as a resident. The value I get from you locals is regarding where streets go from ‘nice’ to ‘iffy’ and from ‘iffy’ to ‘bloody awful sink estate 20 yards down the road’. As in, I am often shocked at some of the hotels in Dublin City centre advertised as “within walking of all major attractions”: Sure they are, but if you want to feel safe, you should be packing an AK-47!
CW: Amusing and colorful commentary indeed!
As I said before, Bermondsey is not an area I thought of, because I only know it as where Jane Goody grew up (RIP) and thought it full of council flats and generally dismal. Rest assured, I am not afraid of being attacked by rabidly boring bankers, but do think it sensible to be scared of crackheads. The draw for me in the docklands is the water. I currently live in a house with a grand view of the Sea, and that is something I would miss.
Is Belsize Park any more pricy than Canary Wharf which I find outrageously expensive. I can’t comment on the London suburbs, because I have never been to any, but I suppose I should consider if I will be here long-term, if I need to decide among city, suburb or country.
I am still considering Pimlico, but having done some searches, there does not seem to be much available in my wants/price bracket.
Blackheath, you can help me with. My ex-Londoner friend waxed poetic about Blackheath – he lived there during the ‘70s (former hippie-doody type who morphed into 1980’s banker) and loved it. I have searched on real estate sites and get everything from Greenwich to Docklands. You are living there, so clearly you must like it and would recommend it. So, can you give me some insights into the area? My good pal Kavey & I can come visit and you can show us around.
Martian: I also like that area between London Bridge and Southwark, but don’t know Kennington – another are I should explore.
Patrick: Many thanks for the websites. I finally found an agency that was willing to work with me on getting a lower rent for a short-let. I hope to finalize tomorrow. I have taken your advice regarding the Royal Docks and am keeping as close to Canary Wharf as possible.
Nigello, I checked out Dulwich on your recommendation, but have found little of interest. I think this is one of those areas where I would need to work with a local agent. This will give me the opportunity to visit the Dulwich gallery, which I have been meaning to check out for a while. Good suggestion.
Hello Mimi! Hope you and Pastis are well. xoxo
Sheila dear: Absolutely! I checked out transportation today. I assume you jest about the bus (10 hours!). I can get flights from London City Airport to Dundee and then drive to Aberdeen (a scary option for the populace of Scotland), or direct flights to Aberdeen with BMI. I had hoped to take the train, but apparently it takes between 8-10 hours – surely this can’t be true? Anyway, once I get settled, we can fix a date.
BTW: I know CW is being a bit naughty. In his defence, I do understand where he is coming from re the “underbelly” targeting specific affluent areas, that have hitherto been considered safe, to pray on easy targets. There have been a few violent muggings in the past few weeks on ‘celebrity women’ that have hit the press.
I hope by tomorrow to have finalized negotiations on an apartment for the first month. I had better, as I am flying on Tuesday next!
Best regards .. Ger
Aug 12th, 2009, 11:59 PM
#38
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey Ger, would love to meet up! Angel is nice, but like someone mentioned, try to get away from Upper Street. Right next to Angel is Highbury and I think the best of Angel and something quieter.
I lived near the lake front in Chicago before moving to London and had some water withdrawal pangs too. But I found that parks are to London what the waterfront is to Chicago.
That said, unless you live right on the canal/river or on the upper floors of a purpose built block, views from the flat are going to be hard to come by.
Anyway, its a confusing but decision you have to make. Do let me know if you need help or just some company after you move. I'll be more than happy to show you around the bits I know.
I lived near the lake front in Chicago before moving to London and had some water withdrawal pangs too. But I found that parks are to London what the waterfront is to Chicago.
That said, unless you live right on the canal/river or on the upper floors of a purpose built block, views from the flat are going to be hard to come by.
Anyway, its a confusing but decision you have to make. Do let me know if you need help or just some company after you move. I'll be more than happy to show you around the bits I know.
Aug 13th, 2009, 02:02 AM
#39
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Janis: I like Pimlico, but have not explored it very much. Location is perfect and it appears to offer the ‘village’ atmosphere I like. >>>>
>>>>
I am a museum/art gallery/ quiet diner person, and not a likely to go clubbing every night.>>>
Seriously; Pimlico is just where you need to be. both Tates are within walking distance and for a small annual fee (about £50 I think) have evenings/private events and the like. The South Bank is again a short hop in a cab/bus for more culture than you can shake a stick at (it's Britain's major cultural centre). Pimlico itself is full of places that are quiet and enjoyable for dinner, or a beer and a read of the paper/book.
The docklands is just awful. Patrick may disagree, but I'd like to hear why.
>>>>
I am a museum/art gallery/ quiet diner person, and not a likely to go clubbing every night.>>>
Seriously; Pimlico is just where you need to be. both Tates are within walking distance and for a small annual fee (about £50 I think) have evenings/private events and the like. The South Bank is again a short hop in a cab/bus for more culture than you can shake a stick at (it's Britain's major cultural centre). Pimlico itself is full of places that are quiet and enjoyable for dinner, or a beer and a read of the paper/book.
The docklands is just awful. Patrick may disagree, but I'd like to hear why.
Aug 13th, 2009, 02:08 AM
#40
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blackheath, you can help me with. >>>>
Its just a nice bit of SE London. It's kept it's "village" atmosphere. It's nice enough to live in - but I wouldn't recommend a visit (unless you have unlimited time and a huge bag of money). Its main attraction is the huge heath itself.
The view from my house (more or less):
http://blackheathdigital.com/Blackhe...blackheath.png
I certainly wouldn't recommend living here. Full of knobbers and no basic amenities.
CW - fed up.
Its just a nice bit of SE London. It's kept it's "village" atmosphere. It's nice enough to live in - but I wouldn't recommend a visit (unless you have unlimited time and a huge bag of money). Its main attraction is the huge heath itself.
The view from my house (more or less):
http://blackheathdigital.com/Blackhe...blackheath.png
I certainly wouldn't recommend living here. Full of knobbers and no basic amenities.
CW - fed up.
