OReilly

Hello all:

I am negotiating a contract position with major UK firm and, if successful, will have to relocate to London for 2-6 months. If it happens, it will happen quickly (next week) so I am looking for ‘ground-roots’ advice from Londoners on where I should look for apartments.

I know central London very well, having been there 100’s of times on business and vacation.

This, of course, is very different, as I am now looking to rent an apartment for an extended period, which is why I need local knowledge.

I am thinking of concentrating my first search in Pimlico (which I don’t know and would welcome feedback) and Canary Wharf (which I do know).

Here are some random thoughts:

 The company is located between London Bridge & Southwark tube stations and a reasonably short commute to work is preferred, but not a necessity

 I have lived in Victoria BC (aka Paradise) for a few years, commuting to London every few weeks. Therefore, I would prefer some niche in London that was relatively quiet; otherwise, I will not sleep for the next 6 months. I accept that may encourage you Londoners to tell me to feck off to Surrey, but please work with me

. All I am saying is that I am SO NOT interested in anywhere within ‘hearing distance” of Oxford Street, Soho, Piccadilly, Knightsbridge main thoroughfares

 Having explored much of London, I know there are still many charming ‘villages’, but could probably not afford to live in most (love Chelsea, unlikely I can afford it).

 While I have explored London as a foreigner, there are many areas that I have not explored that might work: Pimlico, Islington … etc.

 Canary Wharf is certainly popular for people like me, but I think apartments there are still way overpriced, considering the state of the economy. I’d welcome advice on how flexible renters are right now to ‘offers’. Yes, I know that Canary Wharf is a fairly sterile environment, but I do enjoy the river, the skies, the openness of it, the architecture is acceptable, and the quietness in the evenings. The commute to the rest of London is easy. This is my fall-back strategy.

 The whole docklands area appeals to me, as I like to be near water, but don’t know much about the area beyond Canary Wharf. I know some of the areas have been “gentrified” and some are rather ‘iffy’ As a woman living on her own, I want to avoid ‘iffy.

 I have never visited the suburbs of St. John’s Woods, Hampstead, Clapham … should I consider these areas?

I know this is a very post to respond to, but I need as much random information as you can give as I have to make some choices in the next few weeks.

Any help you can provide would be most gratefully appreciated.

Best regards … Ger

helen_belsize

My personal prejudice is for North West London, its partly heritage and partly where I have lived for the last 30 years. Get out on the Jubilee Line and its a quick straight ride to Canary Wharf with all the other workers, so in other words northern St Johns Wood, Primrose Hill and Swiss Cottage. Or take the Northern Line to Hampstead and Belsize Park. and the eastern side of Primrose Hill. Have to change trains at London Bridge for Jubilee Line. These are places where real people live, it has a large supply of rental flats and at the same time it has a large number of city workers from the various national financial organisations in Canary Wharf.

As one of my new neighbours (I moved half a mile recently) said, people don't realise from the tube map that these two areas are a short walk apart, or even a bus ride for the heavily laden.

From a financial point of view flats in Westminster have much lower council tax (ie land tax) than Camden.

There are pleasant places to go, eat and hang out. it has exceptional connections for St Pancras and Eurostar for the weekends. There are other pretty places to live but the NW has the least aircraft flying low.

There are quite a lot of American families in the area because of the American School in St Johns Wood, they organise their own yellow buses.

janisj

For practicality - anywhere along the Jubilee or parts of the Northern lines would be convenient.

I really like Pimlico - have stayed there for a week maybe 6 or 7 times. The river is close, there are a couple of leafy squares and it is close to Victoria for transport and Chelsea for "posh atmosphere"

Primrose Hill/St john's Wood would be nice of course. I've also stayed in Highgate for a week maybe 3 or 4 times and I really like the village-y feel and proximity to Hampstead and the Heath.

But w/ the location of the firm - another area I would <u>definitely</u> consider is St Katherine's Marina and just east of there in Wapping.

I just stayed for a week in a flat in the marina and it was surprisingly (at least to me) quiet, and comfortable, and right ON the river. Most don't have views of the river but it is just outside - w/i a few steps.

And I took a long walk through Wapping and farther west. Appearently there has been a lot of gentrification and it really resembles a riverside village. Don't know how the single female thing works there (I know I felt totally safe but it was daylight).

There are some very nice developments along the southbank from Southwark to Bermondsey

Maybe C_W and PatrickLondon and others will see your post and have good insight re specific neighborhoods.

ssachida

I work near bank/st.pauls and moved to london from the US 3 years ago, so i know exactly what you mean

I live along the north eastern branch of the northern line in the N19 postcode. Rents have actually gone down a bit this year. I live near the Archway tube in what is Dartmouth Park. 5 minutes from the tube, 5 minutes from Hampstead Heath, 10 minutes from Highgate, a quick bus/tube ride to Angel.

The other area that I'd recommend in Belsize Park - proximity to Belsize park, Hampstead Heath and Regents Park and Camden High St.

Once you do decide on the general vicinity I suggest www.loot.com , click 'flats to rent'.

ssachida

southwark and bermondsey are very nice, but avoid deptford. like the plague.

am a single female too.

PatrickLondon

Janis is right about the general approach - look along the lines of your potential commute, and look at the journey times rather than distances.

You ask about living near Canary Wharf. Where I live is a riverside estate with (I think) a neighbourly social life as well as a pleasant outlook. Canary Wharf tube station is 10-15 minutes away by bus or walk+DLR, and we have a Clipper pier beside the estate (it would be expensive to use it for a regular commute); Greenwich is a 20 minute walk away through the foot tunnel. It's certainly reasonably quiet, almost too much so at the weekends - major shopping and entertainments are not on the doorstep. I like it, but not everyone does. I can't advise about rentals: for a time the begging letters from estate agents (always a sign of a buoyant market) stopped coming, but a few have begun to reappear, and published comments suggest rents may be holding up (but estate agents would say that, wouldn't they?).

I was also going to suggest Southwark/Bermondsey, so you could walk to work: parts are very gentrified, and it's pretty quiet: but I suspect there's a central London premium on rents.

Don't forget the suburban railway lines running south and east from London Bridge - to Greenwich, for example (which also has alternative public transport routes to the London Bridge area, as well as the Clipper boats).

hsv

My advice would be to base yourself reasonably close to work if you are going to spend a lot of your time at work. Keep your commute simple, without too many changes (I even managed to avoid having to take the tube, which I am glad for every day, and still living in a great area). In your case I second the recommendations of looking into some of the new riverside developments between London Bridge and Southwark. Living by the river gives you a pretty luxurious feeling of having some space around you (which is worth quite a bit in an otherwise busy city) and the area -while not my prime choice- has some quite lively parts in the first row by the river, which are nice enough.

geoffthelobster

I would definitely consider Bermondsey. You can walk to work (or buy a cheap bike for a few months) and the other major sites. You'll be able to enjoy the whole London experience more this way than being stuck out in some godforsaken suburb. If you want a general guide to costs then take a look at this website: http://www.net-lettings.co.uk/london-map-england.aspx which has an excellent rough 'price map' of London areas. Most rental contracts need 6 months minimum though.

flanneruk

A few crucial points, IMHO:

1. At the kind of budget you're likely to be talking about, you won't be dealing with an iffy district. But at ANY budget, you're liable to find houses or flats located somewhere the prissy might delude themselves into thinking is iffy (search for the endless old maid wittering on this board about Kings Cross from people who really ought never to leave their gated communities in suburban Cincinnati, for example). More important, house A in a neighbourhood might very well be in a location that's a great deal iffier than identically-priced house B 100 yds away. Ill-lit walks from the nearest tube or bus stop, end of terrace, precise proximity to the grimmer housing estates (which are EVERYWHERE in London) or the general noise level: all vary more widely between properties than between neighbourhoods.

2. Personally, I find changing tube lines, or needing to get a bus after a tube, more irritating than a longer single-line commute. That logic says start with places on the Northern (City branch) or Jubilee lines.

3. Nonetheless, I've always preferred places within a 30-45 min walk of the office. Not just because of the two day a year tube strike, but because walking to and/or from - when you want to, not when you have to - is a terrific way of relaxing and getting exercise. And a lot more interesting than pounding a bloody treadmill in some grisly gym.

4. On noise. There's a universal background mini-roar within 3 miles of the centre which you don't hear after a while and blacks out most other street noises. And we don't use our carhorns. If that roar's too much for you, anywhere near the centre's ruled out (even living in a tent in the middle of Kensington Gardens or Highbury Fields, or the Victorian/Edwardian "quiet" residential areas like Dartmouth Park). If you can live with the roar, then all you need to avoid is really close proximity to very, very, busy roads, late-opening pubs and clubs, dense strips of restaurants or neighbouring youths with underpowered motor bikes. Again, that's about the specific location of an individual property, not neighbourhoods.

5. Personally, I strongly prefer the mainly 18th and 19th century purpose-built middle-class inner suburbs (the belt from Chelsea round to slightly east of Islington) to the newly-built blocks of flats to the east of about London Bridge, or the gentrified ex-workers' cottages nearby. The "older" middle class neighbourhoods typically have more attractive houses (though the "Georgian" ones - most actually built just after the death of George IV - are often pokily laid out inside and astonishingly badly constructed), and have a much better range of local shops and pubs. But that's highly personal.

A specific neighbourhood? Islington. As near as you can afford to the bit of the Regent's Canal by the Angel tube. And at least 50 yds from Upper Street.

flanneruk

PS:

It's not clear what your nationality actually is. But I'd say it's practically impossible for most Britons to use the term "foreigner" to describe a Canadian (or an Australian, New Zealander or Irishperson). Whichever queue they're forced into at Heathrow

I understand there's a vogue in these countries to make a point of describing Britain as a foreign country. It's not reciprocated.

Cholmondley_Warner

My, inevitably opinionated, take:

Some good advice here. Apart from "live in Bermondsey" which is such a piss-take that it almost qualifies as performance art (just for clarity's sake - Don't live in Bermondsey). In fact avoid all of "Docklands" unless you like being surrounded by city wankers who just sleep there (there's nowt else to do there).

St John's Wood is "nice" if you liked the Steptford Wives. It's a sterile enclave of foreigners and has no life of it's own. Swiss Cottage is a bit better, but there's eff all there.

Belsize Park was suggested - and it's a great idea. But it's pricey. Very pricey.

However your original sugesstion of Pimlico is a great one. It's a nice area with a proper community so has pubs, restaurants etc (and more bloody estate agents than you could shake a stick at).

It's a short walk to the centre, but doesn't feel "central".

Of the other places mentioned: Islington is full of knobbers. It's also a high crime area because the yobboes prey on the knobbers. Also at night it's rammed with either knobbers or yoots. None of which are particularly edifying.

Hampstead makes Islington look like a knobbers free zone. Also it's a bloody difficult place to live as it doesn't have the necessary - ie supermarkets etc. Just lots and lots of boutiques and shops selling poncey lettuce. For knobbers. And I live in Blackheath!

Clapham is the Hampstead of the south with the addition of crack addicts. It's popular with twenty somethings, but they soon tire of it.

ssachida

though, i defer to the CW on crime stats, surely, the rest of that description is for Angel and not, the whole of islington.

-- islingtoner, not a knobber, a yobbo or a yoot, and i've never been mugged, thank you very much. my local pub is st. johns on junction road.

helen_belsize

CW has given you the lowdown and most of us would not put things so bluntly. Apart from your origins you haven't given us an idea of your age, which might influence your choice.
Apart from thinking of an easy commute I would also think about what you like doing at weekends. If you like the theatre or music or sport or visiting museums I would choose a place with good transport links to the areas you will go to most. Hence one of my preferences for north west London. We are all assuming you will not have a car. In which case choose an area which is not too expensive if you want to use a cab late at night, ie not too far out.

There are books full of advice on how to choose a place to live in London which describe the merits and otherwise of most areas. Usually these are quite succinct so most of what you need can be read in the bookshop.

Estate Agents can be a bit economical with the truth on the virtues of the areas where they have flats to let.

Re quietness, check a flat is not too close to a fire station, emergency department of a hospital or similar.

If you are sporty Swiss Cottage has a newly rebuilt sports centre, but there are also private sports clubs everywhere if you want to pay. It does have supermarkets (unlike Hampstead, totally agree on the shops there) and except for the current weekend work on the underground is a very quick trip to the West End. It is an established community so there are the more quirky local things going on, which you will find in other neighbourhoods.

My main objection to Pimlico, if you mean near the Tate and the tube station is that it is not an easy commute. Otherwise it is an agreeable area, again it depends what you want to do after work.

Cholmondley_Warner

There's a bazillion buses from Pimlico, and it's on the Victoria line (or is a short hop/walk to it).

Islington IS full of knobbers. It's a bloody byword for a certain type of knobber. Knobbers and gooners, scuffers scratters, dole-moles and ASBOnauts.

It is also eyepoppingly high crime.

>>>>my local pub is st. johns on junction road.>>>

Gastro pub. 'nuff said.

CW - Ex LB Islingtons ASB team. Knows where knobbers are and where wrongsters hang out.

ssachida

LOL, thats me told then. and i'm too lazy to look up all the other labels on urban dictionary, so maybe i am one of them ... still, i like dartmouth park and have never felt unsafe.

flanneruk

"Islington IS full of knobbers. It's a bloody byword for a certain type of knobber. Knobbers and gooners, scuffers scratters, dole-moles and ASBOnauts."

I've absolutely no idea what he's yammering on about - except that he doesn't like Islington.

Ask a policeman, and all he'll tell you about are the criminals he's framed. Ask a publican and he'll know about nothing but pubs - and the policemen who drink in his after closing hours. Ask an inhabitant and he'll tell you the real story.

So here's mine about Islington.

I once locked myself out of a house just down from the Angel. Nice pre-Victorian place, next to a council estate. Couldn't get in, Mrs F was away somewhere, but the window was open so I asked the help of the next door pub. Whose manager was a former Great Train Robber (not just any Great Train Robber, but the bloke who hit the driver)

Tommy gets his ladder out, and holds it while I climb in the top window. At which point the local plod turns up. Sees Britain's most famous robber holding a ladder, and a fat bum struggling to get in the top window of a house that clearly isn't Tommy's, and really must - being a gentrified Georgian number virtually on a council estate - be high on anyone's list of vulnerable properties.

"Afternoon, Tommy" says plod, and starts discussing the 2.30 at Newmarket. Or was it who's fencing what in Tommy's pub? Or who's singing at tonights lock-in? Whatever it was, it wasn't "what are you doing trying to break into a respectable house?"

With poliss like that, what do you expect?

And I've never felt unsafe. That's the trouble with all these suburbanite police: one council house and they start screaming for assistance.

I'm sure OReilly's made of sterner (and more discriminating) stuff

Cholmondley_Warner

Ask a policeman, and all he'll tell you about are the criminals he's framed. Ask a publican and he'll know about nothing but pubs - and the policemen who drink in his after closing hours. Ask an inhabitant and he'll tell you the real story.>>>>

This is very true. I tend to navigate London by iffy juicers, spielers, knocking shops, rub and tug shops (not the same thing), crack houses, moody cash converters, seriously moody estates and the like.

It does mean I have a low opinion of just about everywhere, 'cos I see it's underbelly.

But I will not yield on this simple fact: Islington is a bloody high crime area. It is by anyone's standards, and it's all quality of life stuff, robbery (what we now call mugging), burglary, assault, and the general crapness of big city life.

It is also full of knobbers.

I wouldn't live there for a big clock.

That's my opinion. The fact that others disagree with it should inform yours.

It's not "quiet" either. Upper St is N Londons biggest destination for yoots that want to get pissed. With all the fun and games that implies.

Martian

Funnily enough I worked for several years between London Bridge and Southwark stations.

I would strongly consider that immediate vicinity or nearby Kennington, from where you could walk.

Obviously you'll reduce your journey time by living in South London. Clapham is a good idea or in fact anywhere along the southern branch of the Northern Line except Stockwell.

Pimlico (or Battersea just over the river) would be great if you can cycle to work but, as has been said, is a pain by public transport.

sheri_lp

CW - I've learned alot of new words tonight, thanks to you.

PatrickLondon

If it's not too late for the OP, the thought occurs that there are Facebook groups for different neighbourhoods around London, which might provide some more local advice and information. And for accommodation prices:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/
http://www.propertyfinder.com
http://www.primelocation.com/