hi all,

Okay I was reading one of the posts below and I am just kind of stumped here. Some of the posts just don't add up and some are too good to believe. One poster said they just did a 20 day trip with just $400 for food budget. I can't see that happening. That is only $20 a day. Another said $100 included everything but airfare. I think both of these included london? with the dollar doing so badly against the pound, $20 a day is only 12 pds right now. unless you are getting breakfast free with the hotel, and even then, I don't think 12 pds is a realistic food budget for london. I have been there 3 times now and even when the dollar/pd is better, that is still not a realistic figure.

Now don't get me wrong, I am sure that you could do it for less, but as an average person, on vacation, are we really looking to spend bare minimum with no frills? I do not think so. I think most of us are looking for specials, yes, the best deals, yes, but not scrimping to the point of nothing.

For those people out there asking us these questions, I don't think it is fair to them either. Meals in london on average (no fancy ritz dinners) are in the following range:

full breakfast 5-6 pds
pub lunch or mcd's 7-9pds
dinner 12-15pds
or dinner w/alcohol 17-20pds

so adding this up we are looking at meals in london 25-35 pds a day per person. That is double that 12 pds per day. And that is if you eat a modest restuarants for dinner. If you do any splurging that can add 20 or 30 pds.

Can you do london 6 nights/7days on $100/per day not including airfare. Probably, but that would mean that you would have to forgo a lot of stuff and hey, let's face it for some this may be a one time visit. I think we should portray more realistic figures when we are asked. Give these people a chance to wait and save a little more and enjoy the trip.

Averages for London:

Airfare- right now is running $700-900 roundtrip. In the late fall that will probably come down about $200, but that reduction is not showing anywhere yet.

Hotels- a modest 3 star...you are looking at least $40 a day per person. 4 star add $10-$20 per person.

Meals- based on the above averages and the current dollar/pd you are looking at $40-60 day per person.

Now how can you save on these averages. The airfares are bad this year. priceline might help, but you are not guarenteed. We cut the price using air miles. Hotel-if you are willing you can stay at a 2 star, but I would not recommend it. surf the net and watch for specials....stay 5 nights get 6th night free thing...or if you want a 4 star for 3 star price....they are out there. that's what we grab.

meals-find a hotel that includes cont breakfast with the room. that will cut off the cost of breakfast. as for lunch, we alternate eating a pub lunch one day to buying meats and bread at the local market. I love paris for its sidewalk grills. you can eat lunch for less than $3 if you are careful. this helps us to save enough to splurge on the meal we really enjoy and that is dinner. not eating dinner out in paris or london is a big mistake. you miss it all!

We are going in the fall again. We have been 5 times to london or paris and have still not done everything. Even this trip, without that many admissions, we are still looking at spend about $150 a day.

Airfare was terrible for london this year. Normally we would see specials on their own at or around $400(with tax). this is not happening this year. Luckily we have to use some air miles or lose them and we were able to get 2 tickets at $340 incld tax etc. I want some comfort or room, and a full private bath. I have been lucky in finding 3 and 4 star hotels that range from 50-60 pds or about $44 a night per person. our budget for the trip now that we have those two items locked in are as follows:

We are going to london for 8 nights/9 days PER PERSON

airfare: $340(inc tax)
hotel: $352(inc vat)
dinner cruise $ 70
Train to Winds. $ 20
bus to oxford $ 16
7 day 2 zone tube $ 50
museums& attract $100
play (MAMA MIA) $ 50
afternoon tea $ 30
food $240


total $1268
average 8 days $159/day

This does not include spending money for shopping etc. I always take at least $300 for shopping per week, but you can do it on much less. I also have learned not to waste too much on souveniers that I will stick in a drawer. I now buy one or two things special to remember the trip by, a couple of cards that will be frameable, and then some personal shopping like clothes or books.

This puts my trip for 8 nights at about $1600. that includes the following items on our iteniary:

st pauls
madamn tussards/planetarium
victoria and albert
history and science museums
british museum
high tea at browns or ritz
dinner cruise on thames last night
day trip to windsor
day trip to oxford
bookhunting
shopping
3 or 4 really nice dinners
mama mia play
ghost walk
jack the ripper walk

I have heard alot about doing london's free stuff. If that is all you do, you are missing out some great stuff. Don't get me wrong, if I had a choice between not going to london or going on a shoestring I would go, but most people can save $200-300 with two-three more months savings and you can really do alot more. why rush it?

just my opinion....

You listed a 7-day tube pass for zones 1 and 2 at $50, but since they cost 19 pounds, this actually isn't more than $30-35, even with a really bad exchange rate. Perhaps some of your other estimates are also on the high side?

FYI, we did a 3-week trip to London with a week in the countryside for a total of $2500 for 4 people, including airfare, car, and accommodations. Let's hear it for frequent flyer miles and home exchanges! We ate breakfast and frequently dinner at "home," and packed picnic lunches most of the time.

Yes, we did lots of free things, but since most of the museums on your list are free (V&A, Natural History, Brit, etc.) and since we had no interest in Mme. T's, we were ahead of the game already.

I have always heard "less than $100/day" for London on a great trip BUT and this is a big but, that did NOT include hotel or airfare. Teh $100/day included airport-hotel transit, food, shopping, attractions taxi/tube rides, theatre, Afternon Tea , all guide tipping, day trip like to Hampton court, Windsor Castle, Bath and stonehenge etc. That is what I budget for and I susually come in UNDER budget and have enough left over to still pay to get my car out at the airport when I get back ($15/day times 8 or 9 days) plus money left in the budget to pay my pet sitter as well (another $15/day times howeve rlong I'm gone). I don't eat at luxury restaurants at all but I do eat 3 full meals a day (I don't snack around or picnic on bread and cheese) though I do suually get a hotel with breakfast included. Most times I stay in a "moderate" hotel, as long as it has private bath, a/c, an di scentrally located I could care less about other amenities (Thistle Marble Arch is my fave for location but only when I get a good deal on it). I do spend a lot on "day trips" though. I don't like doing things like Stonhenge and Bath on my own , and I usually book a day trip with a group that includes transport, I also like to do other smaller tours like Jack the Ripper and London Walks which all charge as well as the Big Red Bus, and to my knowledge things klike the Beefeater Toour and admission to Tower of London are not free either.

As I said $100/day or less is realistic to me EXCLUDING airfare and hotel. And as I said I do hotels with good location but not fancy unless a great deal is to be had. As for airfare, I try to use my frequent flyer miles though some airlines say $50k for a trip to Europe but in the fien print you see that only covers airfare up to $500 and tickets are running more right now so you have to end up paying the difference!

hi,

Thanks for responding to my post.

Anon-I was a little high on the tube pass because we purchase the london visitor travelcard before we go and I couldn't remember if it was 20 or 30 pds for 7 days so I errored on the high side.

as to the cost of your trip $2500 is unbelievable for 4 people! but then you stated the magic words, flyer miles and home exchange.

my point is that for the average traveler, staying in a hotel in london, meals at home and flyer miles are not a realistic portrayal of "average" trip planning.

sunlover-now yours is reasonable and the $100 a day not including airfare or hotel makes sense. This would be more realistic and more in line with my experiences in london. as you stated this allows for decent meals, admissions and day trips. if you take away my hotel and airfare, I would not be far off...$1268-$692=$576/8days about $72. In fact based on yours, I may be underestimating mine a little and I will be adding about $20/day just in case.

my whole purpose for this post, was the following: when I first came on the board, I LISTENED to many brag about "doing it for less" and planned on that during my first trip. we ran out of money and that was before atm cards and check cards and I ended up having to "phone home" for money. and we were on an escorted tour where airfare and hotel was paid for. the cost of "reasonable" meals and spending money for admissions and attractins was much greater than what had been portrayed.

my point is that we need to be realistic to first time travelers. they need to know the average...not the steals....

thanks all

Re: "One poster said they just did a 20 day trip with just $400 for food budget. I can't see that happening. That is only $20 a day."

You don't think it's possible for *anyone* to average only $20/day on food. Why?

Re: "Now don't get me wrong, I am sure that you could do it for less, but as an average person, on vacation, are we really looking to spend bare minimum with no frills? I do not think so. I think most of us are looking for specials, yes, the best deals, yes, but not scrimping to the point of nothing."

Everyone has a different travel style. An "average person" is made up of many different people, some who choose to spend a lot on vacation, and some who choose to spend a little. There's no one "right" way to travel for everyone.

hi capo,

Really, this is not an attack just a plea for being a little more realistic.

From experience, I wish I had listened to several others that first trip. Of course I think $20 a day for food is do-able. But would the "average" traveler going to london or paris the first time, really want to do that? Or is it reasonable, when most expect to eat at least two whole meals a day.

And most will be staying in a hotel that they will not be able to cook or have a refridge(with enough space) in the room.

Even with my budget, I stop at the local market for soda's to keep in the room and water to take for the day. I buy snacks to have on hand while traveling.

I just do not think 12pds a day is reasonable for an average traveler.

As far as what average means, of course I know that we are all different. I think most people know what I mean by average.

middle income, touristry, interested in the local attractions and seeing the sites. traveling with a friend or as a couple or as a family.

I am not talking about the educated "experienced" traveler. I think those of us who have been on this site for years need to be careful when a newbie is asking questions.

yes, you can do london on 5 pds or less a day but you can also sit in trafalgar square for nothing all day long. did you see london, experience london, and enjoy london?

Thanks, Erin. Maybe what I didn't get was when you initally wrote you couldn't "see that [spending only $20/day for food] happening", you meant that you couldn't see it happening for *you*...and that makes sense.

Erin: " we purchase the london visitor travelcard before we go and I couldn't remember if it was 20 or 30 pds for 7 days so I errored on the high side."

The 7-day London Visitor Travelcard costs $64, twice what a 7-day Travelcard costs in London. Think what you could have done with that extra money.

Yikes, Sue, not sure where you're getting your info or travelcards, but according to Transport for London's ticketing site (ticket-on-line.com), a 7-day visitors travelcard for zones 1 and 2 is £19.90, which is just a few pence more than the regular card you'd buy after arrival.

hi lvsue,

What extra money? TThat $64 you are quoting is for allzones. Thru raileurope I can buy the london visitor travelcard for$33 for 7 day central zone or$64 for all zones.

In london I will spend on 7 day cards:

zone 1(16.50 pds/$27)
zone 1&2(19.60pds/$33)
zones 1-6(37.20pds/$63)

So where is the real savings? my time and effort to get the photo card etc for 2-8 pds? sorry, I think getting it done before I go is better.

But, Lvsue, this misses the whole point of my post. We can argue the details, but the general point is this, what is a reasonable amount to budget daily for a decent stay in london or paris? and when newbies ask, isn't it better to give them a "reasonable" amount.

I know in the details I could also probably find mama mia tickets at the half price booth on the day of the play. but I am not guarenteed them and I want to see mama mia!

but my main point in this is the meals and overall picture.

Thanks

The problem with this entire thread is, I think, the use of terms like "average" and "reasonable" which are subjective and vary from person to person. Realistically, the "average" traveler probably doesn't even frequent this board and I am convinced the truly "high end" traveler wouldn't bother. But, then again, those terms I am using are subjective as well. Perhaps we should start a thread and ask people to "define" the terms and let's include "charming" "touristy" "must see" "over/underrated" "convenient" "within walking distance" "cheap" and "expensive."
With the greatest of respect for erinb I think it is a laudable effort but will end up being frustrating unfortunately. But thanks for taking the time anyway because you are obviously interested in helping others who travel.

erinb, I think you did a commendable job and an inexperienced traveler could use your numbers for a good approximation.

For a comparison, my wife and I flew from Boston to Glasgow in March (returned from Heathrow).

Airfare $774
Six nights lodging in London $576
Eight nights elsewhere $745
(BnBs and hotels)
Everthing else $2371

Total withour airfare $3692

$85 per day per person plus hotel plus airfare.

This includes 8 day car rental (automatic Vauxhall Vectra), full bottle of house wine with dinners, film and developing, bus from Framingham to Logan, shared van from Logan to home, admission fees and anything/everything connected with this trip. Our lodging included full breakfasts with 3 exceptions which were continental.

This trip also included a train trip to Brighton and another to Salisbury.

hi jsmith,

Boy you pack a bunch in that trip and your numbers are also very reasonable. Although you didn't break it out, do you remember how much the car was for 8 days.

The reason I am interested is because I am looking at doing an 7-8 day trip in scotland next year. Unless I do the on/off britrail thing, I will probably need a car.

In researching this, I am getting kind of antsy about the cost. We you able to find some kind of special and what were your requirements as far a deposit, insurance etc.

As far a your trip, here's where I am trying to save money and that is to get that breakfast included in our hotel. It's not really alot, but it's something and we are usually good to go until we find a pub in the early afternoon for soup and sandwich for 5 or 6 pds, then we splurge on a nice dinner.

Of course, since we love to shop, our spending money goes into that, and I am a bookhunter, so mine goes toward books.

One of the other things I noticed about your amounts is that you got your hotels for less than $100 a night for the room. ours is going to be about $700 for 8 nights split two ways.

This is a mark for me. I try to keep that hotel cost down to less than $100 per room. Half my time is spent looking for that special deal that will get me a 4 star at these 3 star prices and so far I have been lucky.

thanks for sharing your costs with me and any info on the car rental would be appreciated.

Erinb

I took your point, that to always post the lowest possible costs could conceivably mislead. As you imply, there is a difference between 'seeing a play' in London, and seeing, specifically, "Momma Mia." If a traveler has fixed requirements, he or she will not have sufficient leverage to aggressively negotiate prices. And of course, frequent flyer points aren't really 'free' since they had to be paid for somewhere along the line, either by one's employer or by a special credit card.

It might help if people were to qualify the star rating of their food as well as of their lodging. This is of course a little tricky since restaurants and pubs aren't officially graded by the government, the way hotels are. Perhaps we could all agree on some standard way to describe food. Say, a 1 star food budget involves no meals taken in, just sandwich lunches, takeout food, and self-catering. 2 stars would include a full breakfast, pubs and simple establishments, 3 stars sees one into the start of regular restaurants and so forth. Perhaps alcohol should never be figured in as it's too variable. But either way, as intrepid points out, one needs some defined reference points.

A second thought: when people post in the local currency, e.g. pounds, I find more useful than when they post in $US. Exchange rates can fluctuate wildly - look how quickly the Euro soared relative to many currencies. As it is, one has to check the date of a post and factor in whether inflation will apply, or seasonal variations, etc.

Interesting thread, thanks for posting it.

Erinb, one advantage of using credit cards is you have excellent records of spending.

We used Hertz thru British Air and the total rental was $352 We spent another $142 for gasoline while wandering from Glasgow to Oxford - 900 plus miles.

Sue is correct that posting in the local currency is better than in dollars. The pound in March was about $1.60.

As I said I always estimate $100/day excluding hotel and air, but I also said that usually leaves a little money left in my budget too. I would certainly rather overestimate than underestimate. It's always nice to come and not look at tyour account and see you went over what you intended. Truly, I spend about $85/day (on average) plus air and hotel and do the attractions I want to do and buy what I want to buy. I don't eat at foodie type restaurant and I am not a drinker but I do want to do ALL the touristy stuff not just the free museums. By touristy stuff, I mean attractions that charge like Mdme. Toussand's and London Eye as well as Ripper Walks and "Afternoon Tea" Sure you can go much cheaper (or much more expensive for that matter) but a regular tourist who is probaably only going to go to London a couple of times in their t=life will want to see and do as much as they can not just the free stuff. The same goes for the extremely rich traveler who goes to london on a regular basis, they are not necessarily going to be doing the touristy stuff but will be probably stay at 5 star hotels, eat at Michelin rated restaurants, drink expensive wines, spend a lot of time shopping and at the theater. It is the "average traveler who goes to do the touristy stuff and I think $85-$100/day (depending on your eating and shopping habits) will let you see everything you want to see realistically including "daytrips" with groups which can be extremeely expensive. I know I paid $140 for a planned day trip to Stonehenge na dBath that included lunch and snack, transportation, guided tour of everything!

Topping!

I saw this old post and with the further devaluation of the dollar, I was wondering how Fodorites are coping in London. Staying at B&B's I can keep my lodging and food costs to less than $75 day. Of course, when you add the theatre or other activities costs do go up but, then, this is why we travel. To have a great time!

I live in London, I feel that excluding accommodation, 100USD per day is possible. If you visit the museums that are now all free on some of the days then that instantly saves money.

As for food, if you have a large breakfast at the hotel I feel lunch is always uneccassary - I never lunch on holiday, perhaps a tiny amount of tapas or a coffee, an icecream etc. A full three course lunch is completely uncalled for. As for dinner, suppose you have 60USD of your budget remaining then you can find a pretty reasonable, if basic Italian restaurant to dine at. Or you could of course go to a quality bar such as Claridge's, have couple of drinks and a plate of food to share which is always rather nice if you have chosen to indulge in a larger lunch.

m_kingdom2

This is exactly how I have been traveling for years. I never lunch on holiday either. There are plenty of free or low cost things to do in London. I love wandering the neighborhoods or walking along the South Bank. And, of course, as you note, many of the museums are free. While the exchange rate is bad now, I will never let it stop me from coming to London or anywhere else for that matter. I am already planning my next trip to London!