janisj

I normally wouldn't even try to talk someone out of going to Chepstow/Tintern. A neat 'clambering' castle and a just lovely/serene abbey ruin.

But in late December - and involving about 6.5 hours of travel time - and not having any idea of the weather. I'm not a wimp weather-wise, and really the right clothing makes most any day tolerable. But the idea of tramping around Chepstow and Tintern in a driving rain or sloppy snow really doesn't appeal.

rogeruktm

Just to make it clear, go into your home computer about a week or so before your trip. Go into "National Rail" then complete the journey planner for details. I just did a mock plan and it shows a First Great Western leaving Paddington station at 8:15 to Newport, arriving 10:04. Then the 10:27 Arriva Train Wales to Cheaptow at 10:49. Then I type up a single page of details for each trip and add different return times and information. For using the tube I go into one of the Tupe Planner sites and do the same.

Palenque

If you are going to Wales by train as well as Salisbury and Canterbury then consider a BritRail Pass as this will allow you to hop any train anytime - no 9:30am weekday Off-Peak departure restrictions, etc. And currently for travel thru the end of Feb there is the BritRail Off-Peak special where passes are discounted about 20% - if you can marshall your train travels into a consecutive-day pass all the better as these are cheaper per day than the flexipasses, good for a set number of days within a 2-month period.
But like rogerk says go to nationalrail.co.uk and you will see all the various fares - and inevitably restrictions for he non-fully flexible fares and then do a price comparision. You may find that if you want fully flexible travel - hop on any train coming back from Wales for instance and not some train-specific one you book in advance to get a deep discount - the pass may be great. But generally if you want to go the online discounted (and limited in numbers so book early for the cheapest fares) then that for many is the most economical way if not the most convenient - check on how early you can leave London for example to go to Wales. For loads on British train travel these sites have tons of info: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com;

If you are going to Wales by train as well as Salisbury and Canterbury then consider a BritRail Pass as this will allow you to hop any train anytime - no 9:30am weekday Off-Peak departure restrictions, etc. And currently for travel thru the end of Feb there is the BritRail Off-Peak special where passes are discounted about 20% - if you can marshall your train travels into a consecutive-day pass all the better as these are cheaper per day than the flexipasses, good for a set number of days within a 2-month period.
But like rogerk says go to nationalrail.co.uk and you will see all the various fares - and inevitably restrictions for he non-fully flexible fares and then do a price comparision. You may find that if you want fully flexible travel - hop on any train coming back from Wales for instance and not some train-specific one you book in advance to get a deep discount - the pass may be great. But generally if you want to go the online discounted (and limited in numbers so book early for the cheapest fares) then that for many is the most economical way if not the most convenient - check on how early you can leave London for example to go to Wales. For loads on British train travel these sites have tons of info: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id11.html - passes are not sold at British stations though they are at the BTA British Travel Authority office in central London if you are not sure you need one till you actually decide to go to Wales or not - if you are not going to Wales and back then eschew any thoughts of the pass for your plans.

cpilgrim

Thanks; I think we will make our itineraries ahead of time as advised-- that's a great idea!

Still pretty set on going to Wales despite all advice that would lead me otherwise, perhaps leading to my own downfall...haha! If I had any other plans to visit the UK any later I would probably put it off, but this may be our only opportunity. My husband has already "claimed" Spain for the next trip and we've got a load of law school debt to dig in after that. So hopefully it'll work out, weather permitting. The itinerary I posted above is very flexible; my hope is that if we wake up one day and it seems clear, we'll just choose that day to go if we can. Of course it will be hard to see if it is "clear" when it'll be dark outside when our train departs! Since the rest of our trip is fairly pedestrian (staying at a nice hotel, going to museums and on guided tours) I don't mind too much if we have one really long day--feels a bit more like real travel! I imagine that if all our days are a complete mess it won't be too much trouble to just replace that day with another London day, since we have a railpass and so won't be buying any point-to-point tickets. When travelling in Japan I took an overnight train up north, no sleeping car! Got there at about 5:30 AM with nothing to do until 11:00 that day, ended up snoozing in a park and trying to work the kinks out of my neck So hopefully traipzing around London will be easier than that! I think being on trains will be a real "treat" for hubby, who hasn't done anything like that before, having never been out of USA much unless you count Niagra Falls!

I know the weather will be terrible, but how terrible are we talkin'? We did purchase some insulated rain jackets and rain pants, waterproof boots as well, but of course I am holding out for a nice day at least once...

Iowa_Redhead

The tour at Westminster is 4pounds each and the supertour at St Pauls is 3pounds each (the audio guide is 4pounds). The supertour is at limited times, see their website for those times. I highly recommend both tours. You can get into areas that you can't on your own and the history and stories the tour leaders give you is simply fascinating.

Don't think of the weather as being terrible... think of it as not being hot. It's all in how you look at it. The averages I've seen have been in the 40's, so not exactly cold depending on what you're used to. Dress in layers... that way you can ditch layers inside and as the weather changes throughout the day.

jent103

<i>I know the weather will be terrible, but how terrible are we talkin'?</i>

NO telling. It's predictably unpredictable. Could be chilly and rainy; could be cloudy; could be sunny and decently warm (though cloudy/rainy is somewhat more likely). Just bring layers, rain gear and good shoes so you'll be prepared for anything. I'd also take lightweight scarves and gloves. (By "waterproof boots" do you mean the plastic galoshes, or waterproofed hiking boots or similar? I can't imagine the plasticy sort being pleasant to walk in for days. You really want waterproof GOOD shoes that feel good to walk in, and break them in now!!! Very important.)

They do sell newspapers for you to check the weather the day before. Actually if you're walking around town you'll have all kinds of free papers shoved at you on weekday afternoons. I wouldn't go to those for in-depth reporting, but you'll at least get an idea of "cold and rainy tomorrow" vs. "warm and sunny."

laurie_ann

Have some layers. Rain coat and boots good idea. Add a fleece or wool sweater, tshirt, scarf, gloves, fleece hat and you are ready for London in December. It won't necessarily be too cold -- not much colder than Atlanta -- but it will be damp and likely windy.

cpilgrim

I got a good pair of coleman hiking boots (from the 80s when coleman was king! Thank goodness my dad is compelled to keep shoes from a zillion year ago) and some waterproof faux shearling boots with fake fur liner (and fringe). Not that anyone wants to know this but I am insanely excited about these shoes.

I certainly hope the newspapers in London are more accurate than the ones here, haha! This week we have a tropical storm-- where did that come from? I did look up the averages of temperatures, plus sunup and sundown for our week, but when it comes to weather I am never very lucky

Iowa_Redhead

How comfortable are your coleman hiking boots from the 80's??? How hot are your shearling boots? Can you walk in them all day, and without your feet getting too uncomfortably hot? If not, go get something else and get them broken in. I love my Merrel hiking shoes... they're very similar to tennis shoes but they're gore tex lined so they're water proof.

jent103

Iowa_Redhead, that's exactly what I was thinking!

cpilgrim, you really need shoes with good soles, heels and arch support. After all, you are planning to walk a <b>lot</b> (though I hope we've convinced you to use public transport occasionally!). If the shoes you have now are in good condition and are truly good walking shoes, awesome. If not, as Iowa_Redhead said, go get yourself some good ones. They'll cost money, but they'll last you awhile and it is worth EVERY penny. All these plans you have will be for nothing if you've got blisters all over after one or two days! (I love Merrells too; I've had some good Keens and Clarks as well. And don't forget socks!)

Mathieu

Just got back from England yesterday and spent the last 3 days in London. Had an excellent time once again. If I may suggest : London public transit is excellent for getting about but remember to allow yourself time, especially if changes are required to get to you major train stations. Some large stations need attention to get about and the escalators are long and deep which take time.
If you are travelling on a weekend, remember to check for closures due to track improvements as these can really bugger your plans, especially if you are pressed for time and want to get a lot in. An oystercard is very convenient.
If your accommodation is close to the sites/attractions you want to visit, you'll save a lot of time and frustration. Which is another way of saying to look for interesting places in your area to visit that you can get to easily. London is full of them if you reasearch it.
I was living 1 street away from Earls Court Stn. (Cromwell Road) which gave me easy access to all the free museums 2 stops away at South Kensington (highly recommended), and the Leicester Sq/Covent Garden/Picadilly Circus area. No end of things to do and see just in that small area, for example, and also right on the Picadilly line that took me to Heathrow T5 when the time came.

Weather in Nov was great (10C - 15C) generally, needing only a tee shirt and light fleece personally. London is not as cold in December as N. America, if thats what you're comparing it to.

I visited Tintern Abbey a few years ago and while I enjoyed it, found 2 hours enough to see all I wanted, and enjoy a cream tea. (We stopped there as part of a trip to the Brecon Beacons in Wales.) It may take you a whole day to get there, see just that and back. It is a very nice ruin.

London at Christmas time is very nice. Try to check out the department store displays and catch a Christmas show. Have a great time.

M.

BKP

cpilgrim -- We love Tintern Abbey! We've been there in the early Spring and again Mid Autumn. We were bundled up pretty well both times. One day was clear and crisp and the other day was drizzly and gray -- but both days were amazing. I can't be of any help with the transportation because we drove ourselves, I just wanted to be supportive. It will probably be a long cold day, but I think you will think it's worth it! And look on the bright side -- the worse the weather the more likely you'll have the place to yourselves.

cpilgrim

I'm thinking the shoes will be ok. I'm a pretty good walker, as I do a little running/crosstraining during the week most days and I also have just recently graduated from graduate school, where I had to walk all around campus most days. I walked Japan for two weeks (WITH backpack the whole time...man, I've since learned to love the concept of daytripping) in a paid of good grey Adidas, wish I still had those! I've since learned that it is gauche to wear sneakers while travelling to Europe, thus the hiking boots. Hope green and brown boots are acceptable in posh London environments!

BKP, I do appreciate the support-- even if it goes poorly I think I would regret if if we did not try to visit! Glad to know that even in drizzly weather, it is still worthwhile! Did you stay in Tintern long other than to visit the Abbey? I've heard there's a really good pub nearby and thought we might try it out if we have the chance (maybe called the Cherry Tree Inn?).

janisj

"<i>I've since learned that it is gauche to wear sneakers while travelling to Europe, </i>"

Oh my goodness! And who told you that?? Just plain silly. Not a soul anywhere will carry one bit what you have on your feet . . . . .

NanBug

Given your interests, I second the definite recommendation to add a visit to the British Library, one of my favorites.

BKP

cpilgrim -- we have a 4 year old son so we don't usually get to linger over long meals very often. We usually pack picnics. The couple of times that we visited Tintern Abbey we also saw Raglan Castle so we didn't spend much time in Tintern, outside of the Abbey. A quick search pulled up this site and it mentions the Cherry Tree Inn. It also mentions the little pub right across from the abbey -- but the only thing it has to say about it is that it is normally found first by tourists!

http://www.tintern.org.uk/pubs.htm

Apres_Londee

Since Highgate Cemetery and Keats House are must-sees and since they have such strict/limited opening hours, I'd plan these sites carefully to avoid disappointment.

I'd probably group the British Library, Highgate Cemetery and Keats House together on the Sunday (because Sunday will give you more leeway vis a vis the cemetery):

British Library opens at 9:30am;

Highgate Cemetery - western cemetery tours hourly from 11am to 3pm (you probably already know this you but you do have to join a tour in order to see the western cemetery)

Then Keats House, which closes at 5pm. I'm not sure if you could walk here from the cemetery, or if you'll need to take a bus or backtrack on the tube.

I'd allow an hour for transit between them, it probably won't really take that long but since the hours are so limited better to allow enough time to get there otherwise you risk missing them altogether.

Borough Market will be on Christmas hours so it'll be open every day that week. St Paul's, Tate Modern, Globe theater (from the outside at least), and Borough Market are good to group together.

British Museum and I think the National Gallery are open late on Fridays, to 8 or 9pm so that might be a way of squeezing one of them in.

janisj

"<i>British Museum and I think the National Gallery are open late on Fridays, to 8 or 9pm</i>"

A bit of clarification . .

The National Gallery is open til 9PM on Fridays.
The British Museum is open til 8:30PM on Thurs and Fri nights.

carolyn

I prefer the worship service at St. Paul's to Westminster Abbey, but I like the Verger's tour of WA better than the tour at St. Paul's.

I agree that you definitely should visit the British Library. I also enjoyed the Dickens House (walking distance to the British Museum) and the Globe Theater tour.

I know you will have a wonderful time.

Carolyn (another English major)

jent103

I don't think sneakers are any more or less "gauche" than Coleman hiking boots - just wear what you know will feel good on your feet! If that's your running shoes, wear them (although I'd try to waterproof them first). janisj is right - you may not see many Londoners wearing gym shoes (or hiking boots, for that matter), but you also won't see them looking at your feet. No one cares.