cpilgrim

Hi, my husband and I are leaving for the UK on December 16th, arriving back in Atlanta on the 24th. The shortness of our trip we attribute to having no money/no vacation time/wanting not to miss Christmas with the folks/having to fit it into a school break schedule. But here's what we're doing with our time. 4 days London, 3 days sidetrips. Let me know what you think. We are staying at the Swissotel Howard on the Victoria Embankment. Any info about that area is appreciated!

Dec. 17th: arrive London. No real plans for this day, except to acclimate ourselves to the city and get a good night's sleep. Maybe Covent Garden or something. If we're really courageous, try to stop by Parliament as it is the only day we can be admitted to Westminster Hall during our trip.

Day 2: London Day. Up Early. For all London days, we have choice of the following:
Westminster Abbey
British Library
National Gallery
Keats House
Highgate Cemetery/St. Michael's


I'd like to get 2 done each day we're in London.

Day 3: Lv. London early for Salisbury. Try to catch earliest Stonghenge Tour @ 10:00. Should we take the Stonehenge Bus tour or just do it ourselves? I'm not one for guided tours generally, but if it would be easier than getting there via taxi/bus while also being informative, I guess I feel like that would be ok/worth the money.

Day 4: London. Tower of London 1st. priority. See first London day for reference. Be nice to get one activity in addition to the Tower done today. Last day for entrance to Keats House, so that must be done today at latest.

Day 5: London Day. See above list. Again, shooting for 2 done today.

Day 6: Cantebury. Assuming this will be fairly simple as the church is close to the train station. Looking to get there around 9-ish. What is the easiest way, internet excepting, to find out what time the earliest train leaves London for our destinations? We have a flexipass, so the only thing is knowing what station to get to.

Day 7: Tintern Abbey. An absolute that we be on the first train out- it would be good to be at Chepstow as early as possible since much of this day is out-of-dorrs. A little concerned what our transportation options will be once we reach Chepstow, but walking is not out of the question and there appears to be a tourist offices available. Like to see Chepstow Castle as well.


Days 6 and 7 are interchangeable.


Day 8: London day, so wrap up our London activities (see above for list) and try to catch service @ St. Paul's at 4:00. Anyone know what the dress code is for St. Pauls? Obviously we'll be bundled up, so no knees or shoulders will be seen, but I am not sure how formal our attire should be. We are not planning to bring many formal clothes.

Dy 9: Lv London @ noon.


Other "like-to-sees":
Trafalgar Square
Christmas Markets?
Covent Garden
Tate Modern
The Globe
Borough Market (does this run in Winter?)
Harrods-- dead last on list.

Mostly just planning on spending any extra time wandering around.

Any suggestions for nighttime activities are welcome since we're playing that by ear pretty much. I'd like to get "traditional tea" somewhere at some point. Also we are not planning on using much public transportation because a) its expensive and b) many people say that it is a better way to see the city just to walk. Having lived in large cities I am happy to take the tube, but if it is possible I would rather walk so we can get better acclimated to London. Given our lodging choice and London activities, does it make sense to walk?

cpilgrim

Ha, some typos. My apologies!

jent103

You sound as though you've done your research, but I wanted to ask just in case - is there a reason you've chosen the things on your list instead of, for example, the British Museum? I just ask because the Keats House and Highgate Cemetery aren't typical itinerary items for first-timers, but if you have specific reasons for seeing them people might be able to make other suggestions that would also interest you.

I haven't stayed at that particular hotel, but the area is fine (any touristy part of London is fine from a safety perspective, assuming you use common sense). It's about a half mile walk, or perhaps a bit more, down the Strand to Trafalgar Square, and you could walk to Covent Garden as well, so those are definite pluses.

If Keats House and Highgate Cemetery both are musts, I would group those together if at all possible. That area isn't terribly far out of central London but it's still somewhat of a hike, so it makes sense to just make the trip once.

<i>What is the easiest way, internet excepting, to find out what time the earliest train leaves London for our destinations?</i>
Honestly, the easiest way IS the internet - check www.nationalrail.co.uk for train times and stations before you leave. The schedules don't change very often, and the stations definitely won't.

<i>Anyone know what the dress code is for St. Pauls?</i>
There isn't one, really. I attended a Sunday night service there in casual jeans. You can choose to dress up more but as long as you're decent you'll be fine. Are you hoping to see the rest of St Paul's as well? During the service you'll see the main worship area as you sit, but not the dome, the crypt, etc.

<i>Also we are not planning on using much public transportation because a) its expensive and b) many people say that it is a better way to see the city just to walk.</i>
You certainly won't be able to walk to Hampstead, for example, so you'll end up using public transport at least sometimes during your visit. London is a very walkable city, but the tube and buses are very easy to use and I can't imagine taking a trip there without using them at least once a day (I walk a LOT when I'm there, but still use public transit frequently). If nothing else, you'll be very, very tired of walking after a couple of days. A 7-day travelcard on an Oyster is about &pound;25 for zones 1 & 2, which is a chunk of change but worth every penny. It covers both tube and buses (don't forget about the buses!). If you have children with you they may be able to get a discounted rate.

ron

I think you need to recount your days. If Day 1 is the 17th, Day 9 has to be the 25th, not 24th.

I think the Chepstow/Tintern day out is going to be a difficult day, especially given you are travelling on the shortest days of the year. You can get to Chepstow early enough (08:26) if you catch the 05:36 out of London Paddington, but the buses to Tintern only run every 2 hours. Taxi for that part would be a good option. I doubt you would have time to do the 6 mile walk.

Iowa_Redhead

I can't offer much help but I think trying for two "attractions" a day in London is fine. Definitely go to Tower of London early so that you're there before they open the gates. This gives you a bit of time to take pictures of the Tower Bridge and outsides of the tower complex and to get in line. Once you're in, head right for the Jewel house. There's no line first thing but an hour or so later and the line gets past the outside door. Once you've had your look at the pretty glitteries, go join the yeoman's tour. It's free and excellent. You may want to have a few coins as a tip, but not everybody does. After the tour, poke around a bit on your own for awhile. Have a late lunch on the way to your next attraction. I visited the Tower in the morning, had lunch on the way to St Paul's for the afternoon until closing time. I thought I had plenty of time, but to each their own.

You'd be very close on time now, but you *might* be able to still get tickets for the Ceremony of the Keys. You have to send international return postage which can be a pain in the behind to get, but they send the tickets for free if they have space. They need two or three evenings you could attend. The ceremony is at 9:30 and is over by a few minutes after 10, but it's really neat I think. They've performed this ceremony to lock up the tower every night for over 700 years. It's cutting it close on return time so if you're interested do it quickly. Do a google search for their website and contact information. I just got my ticket to go again in December and it took about 1-2 weeks to get it back.

When you go to Westminster Abbey take the tour, you get good information and you get into more areas than you would normally. I didn't see St Pauls on your list other than for a 4:00 service. I would highly suggest spending time in there as well. Again, the tour is great. If you take the supertour you can get into the room with the spiral staircase and into a few more areas that are normally off limits.

For train times, look them up online ahead of time and print out schedules would be my suggestion.

Have fun!

cpilgrim

Thanks for the tips! My husband and I met during college; we were English majors, went on to pursue graduate work in English together, and took (among many courses) Brit Romanticism together-- thus, the trip to Highgate/St. Michael's, to Keats House, to the British Museum (somehow I stupidly left this off our "London Day" plans as detailed, but it is A MUST--I think I am getting all the museums confused because they all have such generic names-- "British Library," "British Museum," "National Gallery," haha...) and also to Tintern Abbey. Any other "literary" ideas are welcome (you'll notice we're skipping most Shakespeare related things because they just seem so very touristy and mostly recreations).

I am not sure what our plan is for St. Paul's. We wanted to minimize the amount of "touring" we did and thought that the Christmas service might be better than a normal tour. But I'd like to see the view! I would skip out on the tour of Westminster, and do the St. Paul's tour instead, but we did want to see Poet's Corner. Is the rest of the tour of St.Paul's "worth it"? If I recall the price is not too high, but we are starting to max out our touring budget since we're going to many other places.

The information about Keats/Hampstead is absolutely essential, thanks so much for that. I am frankly daunted by London's size and have no idea how to interpret maps when it comes to scale....this is very helpful!

Our hotel's internet is prohibitively expensive (25 pounds daily), but maybe we can find somewhere else to check the train times....I will have my laptop. Perhaps concierge at the hotel can assist? Is the UK's idea of concierge the same as in the US? In the US you can basically make the concierge do anything for you!

hetismij

Tintern abbey is 4 miles from Chepstow. You can get the #69 Chepstow-Monmouth bus to near it.
Since it doesn't open until 9.30 Monday to Saturday, and 11 am on Sunday you don't need the first train out, which leaves at 05.30 and gets in at 0835. A slightly later one (06.45 or 07.15 or even later) would work just as well.

Iowa_Redhead

An idea for public transit is to get an Oyster card for each of you and put a bit of money on it to use as Pay As You Go (PAYG). That way if you don't use it much, you can get your money back when you leave. I'm pretty sure you can turn it in at your last station before you leave for a refund.

It works on buses and tubes, I have no idea what rails accept it.

cpilgrim

Ha, whoops! Added an additional day in there. BOY I WISH! Ron, are you familiar with Chepstow? Unfortunately that admittedly ambitious day is the thing we're most excited about so any information would be more than welcome. As far as calling a cab goes-- the national rail site said there isn't a cab line at the station so I guess we'd need to call one? Is that the sort of thing I should do while we're in London-- advance plan for a cab to pick us up? Or should we just do it when we get to Wales? We won't have cell phones (eh, we will but are loathe to use them). We could also go to the Chepstow tourist office and maybe they can help us out getting a cab.

cpilgrim

hetismij, any other info about Chepstow is **more than appreciated.** In fact I am in dire need of it! I've heard varying thing about the reliability of the buses but I am not above walking if I can't find any other way to get there!! If we get done at Tintern early we might try to go to the Castle as well. But the CADW site says the "exhibition" is closed due to repairs. I am hoping/assuming that means that the exhibit of castle interiors is closed but that the grounds are still open.


Are train schedule for national rail reliable enough that it would be reasonable enough to plan a rail itinerary in advance? Printing out timetables sounds like a good idea.

jent103

<i>I am frankly daunted by London's size and have no idea how to interpret maps when it comes to scale....this is very helpful!</i>
Google Maps is your friend. If you "Get Directions" using Google, you can choose a "Walking" option. I plugged in St Paul's and Westminster just for kicks, and it gives you a choice of routes, all of which take about an hour.

Central London is pretty compact, but it would take a lot to walk EVERYWHERE. That's one reason I love using the buses; sometimes it doesn't make a lot of sense to use the Tube, but a bus may take you right where you need to be. You can find Tube and bus maps at www.tfl.gov.uk.

St Paul's does cost a bit to get in (eight or ten pounds, maybe?). It's very different from Westminster Abbey, though, and I would really recommend seeing both if you can. If you must choose one, though, I'd stick with Westminster, but do take a tour to get the most out of it. The Abbey has the verger tours, or London Walks have tours for &pound;7. I haven't taken their Abbey tour but the others I've taken have all been excellent (walks.com).

Maybe I wasn't clear about the train schedules - I meant to check the National Rail site BEFORE you leave to at least get an idea of regular times and schedules. It's possible that you'll run into road works or other schedule changes, but it's not terribly likely. And it's very unlikely that a train normally scheduled to leave from one station will all of a sudden leave from another - it just doesn't work that way. So if you already have a flexipass, just get to your station early enough to make sure the train you want is still running on time.

The British Library is really great - I think you English majors will love it. It's great for history majors and any other major too, though! Charles Dickens had a house somewhere in London (I'm blanking on details), if that interests you.

historytraveler

The exhibition is only temporarily closed; it may well be open when you visit. You will still be able to view the rest of the castle. www.castlewales.com is an excellent website if you haven't already visited it. They have beautiful pictures as well as a ton of historical information on the castles of Wales.

As jent has already mentioned, look at the rail site prior to leaving and just make notes (I wouldn't necessarily bother with actually printing them out) on the times/schedules you are interested in.

ron

I can't be much help on Chepstow. On my visit to England in October, I had planned a day trip from Bristol to Chepstow and Tintern, but recovery from the overnight flight caused me to have to scrub Tintern from the plan. I did visit Chepstow castle, which I found quite interesting - started in 1085, reputed first stone castle in Britain. I don't remember any exhibition, so maybe it was closed then too, but we had free access to most of the castle. It took about an hour to visit. If you do visit, try to approach from the park that runs along side the castle - very impressive view. I travelled by bus from Bristol, so never saw the train station.

With your interest in English literature, too bad the T.S. Eliot exhibition at the British Library will have closed. It is about Eliot as a publisher and his influence on Joyce, Auden, Hughes, Moore. The 19th century photography exhibition is excellent and will still be on, but perhaps not your thing.

Cholmondley_Warner

Any other "literary" ideas are welcome (you'll notice we're skipping most Shakespeare related things because they just seem so very touristy and mostly recreations). >>>>

If you're in Borough Market (and yes it runs all year round) then there's a couple of things you might want to think about. Firstly Southwark Cathedral is just by the market and it's where Billy Shakespeare's brother is buried. Then you're in Borough High St. Head away from the river and you'll soon come across The George - an old pub with a courtyard. That courtyard is where a lot of Shakespeare's plays were first performed. If you keep on going, you will walk past John Harvard's house (it's a solicitors now) - that's John Harvard as in the Yankee university. A bit further on is Tabard St (on the other side of the road). That is where the Tabard Inn was, where the pilgrims set out in the Canterbury Tales.

The Globe is on the river nearby.

If it's literary things you want to see don't get the British Museum and British Library muddled. They are part of the same collection but are in two sites some distance apart (The library is on the Euston Rd - and bloody good it is too.)

laurie_ann

If you are planning St Pauls for Xmas Eve service, please know that is is very popular and the line forms early and gets very long. Two years ago we arrived about 45 minutes before the service and there was no way we could expect to get in. Consider attending a service at one of London's other beautiful more "local" churches.

Another time (not that Christmas) we stayed at that Swisshotel Howard. We enjoyed it a lot. It is a handy location for sightseeing but it is more of a business area and so restaurants may require a bit more exploring. An idea near there for restaurants is the area just behind the Embankment tube stop just to the West from the hotel. There are streets that go up from there towards Charing Cross station that have a number of restaurants that at least appeared appealing and those streets wouldn't otherwise be obvious to tourists even though it is also right near near Trafalgar Square and National Gallery.

laurie_ann

Here's a couple of ideas for churches other than St. Pauls. You can check their websites as it gets closer to the holiday for specific service times. Or you could phone while you are in London.

http://www.templechurch.com/FindUs/default.html

http://cathedral.southwark.anglican....how-to-find-us

Fra_Diavolo

Tintern from Chepstow: If you miss the bus, the Chepstow Tourist Information Centre, just below the castle, will call you a taxi. When we were there in April we missed the bus and asked there whether there was a taxi stand in town. They insisted on called a taxi for us. Very nice people. Can't remember the exact fare, but I believe it was less than ₤10.

The castle is well worth a visit. If you click on my name you can find the trip report, which has a few tips for London, too.

lennyba

<Charles Dickens had a house somewhere in London (I'm blanking on details), if that interests you.>

It's actually not far from the British Museum and is worth a look for literary buffs. I think I spent about an hour there, max.

chartley

There are regular trains on three routes from London to Canterbury. One route goes from Charing Cross, Waterloo East and London Bridge, runes generally twice an hour and takes 1 hour 45 minutes. The trains from Victoria are also twice an hour and take about 1 hour 35 minutes. The fastest trains leave from St Pancras, use the Channel Tunnel route via Ashford and take just under an hour. They run at hourly intervals from the beginning of December, when the timetable has radical changes.

Tintern Abbey is not easy to get to from London by train. You have to change at Newport and then go back on yourself, with the journey taking 2 hr 40 minutes. Hetismij is right about you not needing the first train. Chepstow Station is right next to a big Tesco supermarket, and you may find a taxi there. If not, you will probably have to walk into the town.

Is there a particular reason for wanting to go to Tintern? It's an attractive place on a summer's day, but you have chosen the worst time of year. Chepstow Castle is worth seeing, but both the castle and the abbey are ruins, so there is little shelter. Check the Cadw website (www.cadw.wales.gov.uk) for opening hours.

Cholmondley_Warner

Charles Dickens had a house somewhere in London (I'm blanking on details), if that interests you.>

I'm pretty sure it's near the Spectators old office in Doughty Street.