Note: in following post, E = €.

I'll also be saying "as far as I can tell" or "apparently" because as of posting Lisbon is still in my dreams and not my past experience. So, those of you with better qualifications, please do chime in - I need your help! What I've learned needs polishing and possible correcting/editing - badly!

Background: As London, England is doing with the "oyster" card, it seems Lisbon is also striving to get away from paper tickets and on-board fare purchases. (You can still pay using these more traditional methods, but the cost is higher per fare.)

For most tourists the card of interest will be the "7 Colinas" card (nb Colinas means 'hills', as Lisbon is sometimes taken to be the twin of Rome, the city of 7 hills. What this has to do with transport I'm sure I don't know, but that's the name of the card!)

Lisbon has a metro/subway/underground, which has its own fare system (www.metrolisboa.pt); and a system of trams, buses, and funiculars run by an outfit called Carris (www.carris.pt), which also has its own fare system. That is to say, if you buy regular types of tickets from these operators, you can only use them on the respective system. But if you buy the 7 Colinas card, you can buy 'multimodal' tickets good for both. For example, there apparently used to be something called a 'tourist ticket' (strictly for transportation, not to be confused with the Lisboa card, which includes museum admissions.) This tourist ticket has been replaced by the 7 Colinas card, which I'll after this abbreviate as the 7C card. You can 'load' the 7C card with day passes good on both the metro and the Carris network. They are NOT good for the commuter rail trains (www.cp.pt) which will be necessary to take to Sintra, for example. These still have their own fares, and are not covered by the day passes. Also, as far as I can tell, various ferries are also still not covered by the card, and a few other operators. However, the average tourist will use mainly either the metro or Carris buses/trams/funiculars. (As for the commuter rail, you can buy fares for the commuter rail from machines in the respective rail stations.)

Okay, at this point my research starts to fail me, and I need help.

As far as I can tell, one can use a 7 Colinas card to load a 1-day pass or a 5 day pass. The passes are referred to as network tickets, since one can use them for rides outside the main Lisbon core, say on the Aerobus out to the airport. At present (as of 1 Jan 2006) the 1 day pass is E3.20 and the 5 day pass is E12.90. One can 'reload' the pass as required by taking it to metro stations, for example (apparently one can use a machine to reload it.)

But it doesn't appear to be the case that one can load special metro-only fares on the card, e.g.single ticket 10 units 1 zone for E6.50 on the 7 Colinas card - ???? I'm not sure, as www.metrolisboa.pt is unclear on this point.

On the other hand, there is a similar multi-unit fare available for Carris, and useable only on Carris. On Carris.pt, it says if you wish to purchase these 5 and 10 unit fares, you must load them onto the 7C card.

I also can't figure out the following: it seems one can load as many of a given type of ticket onto the card as one likes, but one can't mix ticket types on any given card??? I.e., one can't load a mix of day passes and single fare options onto a single card?? This would be a significant difference from London's oyster card, which features capping and which allows you to mix travelcards (day passes) and single fares on the same card.

That's as far as I've gotten. If matt or lobo mau or any other person in the know should happen to read this, I'd sure appreciate being straightened out. Regards,

Sue_xx_yy. TTT for you.

Also, post a reference to this on the long, long Lisbon post in case the guys missed it.

The way I understand it is that the 7 Colinas card can be used for different types of tickets but only for one type of transportation at a time.

Or, a 7 Colinas card would have to be purchased for Carris and another for the Metro.

I was so confused when we were there, that we just purchased individual tickets. So I would like to know, also.

I am confused and interested as well.

Doesn't the Lisboa Card make an easier solution? We will be using the metro and other transportation in Lisbon so if a simple explanation exists...

Also WHO is going to be #300 on the long thread? Everyone is waiting - come on Matt it is your thread!

Options to be loaded in the 7C cards:
- one day ticket - 3.20 euros - valid for unlimited usage in metro AND carris networks during a period of 24 hours.
- five days ticket - 12.90 euros - valid for unlimited usage in metro AND carris networks during a period of 5x24 hours.
These options may be loaded in attended or unattended operations. I surely advise the attended operations.

--> Sher, we are waiting for you in the long thread!!!

Greetings Sher

Since the other thread is titled 'things to do in Lisbon' I thought it might not be on-topic for it. But I will post a link there in case the 'boys' see it.

Barb65

You are of course right that the Lisboa Card is simple in concept, especially since it covers Carris, the metro AND cp trains to Sintra and Cascais. It also covers some museum entrances and gives discounts for others. It is, however, fairly expensive - prices until 31 Mar 2006 are € 13.50 for just 24 hours; € 28 for 72 hours. So either one needs to be an aggressive museum-goer, or one must decide that the convenience is worth the cost.

But....but... I've got this far, and because I am intrigued by solving puzzles like this, I'm determined to understand exactly how the 7 Colinas card works. I suppose my interest is partly because I suspect more and more cities will be going this 'ticketless' route for public tranport.

I shall post more as I learn more.

oops! This is what comes of trying to post while also trying to do something else at the same time - I missed lobo_mau's post.

But you see, bad wolf, we can't figure out if one can mix the loading of the day passes with the single tickets on one and the same card. Or does one have to buy two separate 7C cards? (people in Lisbon must be phenomenonally bright, to be able to understand the fare structure of their city. Or I must be phenomenonally dumb - I think I prefer the first explanation....

I agree with with you on the first explanation
There is something I'm missing. If you have a day pass, why do you need a single ticket?
If it was possible to have both day passes and single tickets in the same 7C card (both valid), when you join a bus or a metro, how did the system know wich one do you want to use?

Barb. We also bought a Lisboa card but only for one day. We will be there for four full days this time and it is pretty expensive. Besides, we are not going to repeat some of the things we did last time so we reduce the museum visit benefit.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
So we buy a 7 Colinas card and then we load it with a one or five day pass? And if we want to go to Cascais, do we use that to top off a fare or do we just buy a separate ticket?

This is going to take more research.

I did not realize how expensive the Lisboa card is and Sue_xx_yy did you mean it will go up after March 31?

I see it is good for the sights in Sintra but unfortunately we are going there before Lisbon and I guess it can only be bought in Lisbon.

Maybe the museums are not that expensive but we will try to fit as many as we can into 3 days. But I can tell that the Gulbenkian is the kind of place my husband can spend all day.

Barb65:

I don't know if the Lisboa card will go up, I only know that 31.03.06 is the limit of the guarantee of the price stated on askmelisboa.com. I'm guessing it might go up since prices for other fares went up for this year.

Lobo_mau: It is more that it might suit travellers to sometimes have a day pass (for days when they're going to do lots of moving around) and other days when at most they'll need a return metro ticket for all of € 1.30.

I was hoping that, despite all evidence to the contrary, that possibly the cards would work like London, England's oyster card. That card features daily 'capping' in which you will only pay the single fare rate until you spend the equivalent of a Travelcard (equivalent of Lisbon's daily network ticket) on that day: then you are 'capped' and you won't be charged any more for trips taken that day. So clearly it is technically possible to design a card/system that can track the difference.

I note that the Lisboa card is measured in hours (e.g. 24 hours, 72 hours, etc.) but that the press releases on the 7 Colinas card speak of 'days' which usually means calendar days. This isn't quite as good a deal for the traveller, since you can't use a day pass to span, say, noon Monday until noon the following Tuesday.

Okay, so I need to get a life (or at least a 7 Colinas card loaded with a 5 day pass ) But I can't help myself - in one of my many work lives, I used to be a systems analyst working for municipal transit. I would have LOVED to have worked on something as complex as Lisbon's. I'm quite fascinated with www. transporlis.sapo.pt, which must have been a very difficult program to write.

PS Barb65

You should go to askmelisboa.com to see if the Lisboa card is right for you. The Gulbenkian museum is not free with the card, it only has a discount (20 per cent, I believe.) Given that the normal entrance is € 3, that's a discount of 0.60. Which is all very well, but not if one is paying up to € 13 per day for the privilege.

for days when at most you need a return metro ticket, you go to the automatic selling machines and buy a ticket for 70 cents. It's 10 seconds and you don't need any card. I know because I did this today.

OK, So, I am glad this topic has been surfaced as I have been avoiding it due to its complexity. I will be in Lisbon for 5 days in April.

So, if one chooses not to purchase the Lisboa Card, the 7C card would be a good option. And as I understand from Lobo's note, I would potentially want a 5 DAY 7C Card which is valid for unlimited Metro AND Carris Networks. Do we know if the card is valid during weekdays as well as weekends? Then for trains out to Sintra, one would purchase individual passes at the rail stations.

Do I understand all this correctly?

Thanks Lobo for all you comments/suggestions on this thread as well as the thread Matt started "THINGS TO DO IN AND AROUND LISBON"

Also, do not assume that you get a discount automatically when you have the Lisboa card.
When we were in Belem, there is a little red tram that will take you around and you can jump off if you choose. We had to ask for the discount becuase we were charged the full fare. It only happened on the one thing but just do a quick check in case someone makes a mistake.

The 5 days pass is valid for 5 consecutive days. Once you use it the first time, you have 5*24 hours before it expires.
Trains to/from Sintra reeive/depart form Lisbon/Entrecampos every 15 minutes. The duration is 39 minutes. The cost is 1.5 euros.

mmuehl

Thank you for saying you found it complex, I don't feel so sheepish now (bah, bah!) for finding it complicated myself.

Yes, the 7 Colinas card is valid 7 days a week, both weekends and weekdays. For cp commuter trains to Sintra, you pay as lobo_mau said, € 1.50 each way.(www.cp.pt points out that these can be bought in the relevant station.)

So, the 7 Colinas, loaded with a 5 day multimodal network pass/ticket for € 12.90 (plus 0.50 for the card itself) is likely the solution for you; just pay-as-you-go for sightseeing.

Thanks again Sue for initiating this post as I feel much more comfortable now with "ins and outs" of the 7 Colinas Card.

I am trying to figure out the best way to Obidos from Lisbon?? I initially thought this could be taken via train from Entre Campos Station. However, I am unable to get www.cp.pt to recognize Obidos. Maybe the train doesn't directly go into Obidos, but somewhere else near buy?

Any suggestions in getting to Obidos?

Thanks
Mark

Mark

If you ever have trouble with www.cp.pt, go to www.bahn.de. That's the German rail website, but it's great for timetables.

Also sometimes you can get the 'horarios/timetables' part of www.cp.pt to work, but not the on-line purchase option which would also show timetables.

Anyway, it seems the secret is to punch in 'Sete Rios' as the origin station on www.cp.pt. (Sete Rios is a station on one of the commuter urban rails that cp operates in Lisbon.) Cp shows a number of trains to Obidos - it seems they are all regional trains, and there's a change in some place called Mira Sintra-melecas. The whole journey takes about 2 to 2.5 hours, total cost about € 7.20. You've got LOTS of choices of departure time.

There are a couple of posters here, matt and lobo_mau, both of whom live in Lisbon and will doubtless be able to give you more help. Cheers,

Aha! I thought so. Mira-Sintra melecas is a station on the urban Sintra line, which is the same one that everyone takes to see - you guessed it, Sintra - except that 'your' station comes sooner. Click on the Urban Services - Sintra portion of cp.pt, and you can see a diagram of the line. This is where you apparently make your change.

By the way, if I type in "Lisboa-Entrecampos" in the timetable section of cp.pt, I see that one can depart from this station as well. But it is simpler to depart from Sete Rios (which is easily accessible on the Lisbon metro; the adjoining metro station to Sete Rios is Jardim zoologico on the blue metro line. See www.metrolisboa.pt.