Trying to get (a late!) start on organizing our yearly trip to Europe--Portugal this time. For the past few years, we've visited Spain, Austria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Russia, Romania, Armenia and Georgia. We love castles, museums, historical and UNESCO sites, shopping, dining, wine, beautiful nature (but nothing too outdoorsy due to the age of the group )

I'm excited about the prospect of visiting Portugal, but also have a few things that worry me. Portugal is the furthest away from Japan and also the hilliest of everything we've visited thus far. As I am traveling with ladies aged 65-83 both of these aspects make me worry!

I am having a hard time figuring out how to go about putting this trip together since another disadvantage we are facing is that we cannot have an open-jaw ticket, so we have to fly into and out of Lisbon. Arriving at 23.30h and departing at 8.30am! Whew... So, we'll have 9 nights in Portugal and 8 full days (I'm not counting the day we arrive and depart as we cannot do anything on those days)

High on the priority is to avoid changing hotels as much as possible. So I want to split out 9 nights between two hotels: Lisbon- Porto-Lisbon. Will have to check in at Lisbon twice but that backtracking cannot be helped. From Lisbon and Porto do everything else as day trips out of these cities. Just fyi, that's what we did with our 9 nights in Madrid + Barcelona.

There are just soooo many interesting places in Portugal but I have to remind myself to narrow it down.

I'm thinking of doing: 2 nights in Lisbon > 3 nights in Porto > 4 nights in Lisbon. Transfers by a charter bus/minibus.

Day 1 / check into the hotel around midnight yikes! (overnight Lisbon 2 nights)
Day 2 / late start + Lisbon Part 1 + welcome dinner (overnight Lisbon)
Day 3 / check out: Transfer to Porto via Coimbra (overnight Porto 3 nights)
Day 4 / explore Porto ((overnight Porto)
Day 5 / day excursion to Duoro Valley (cruise + possibly historical steam train) (overnight Porto)
Day 6 / check out: Transfer to Lisbon via Obidos village and possibly Cascais if time allows? (overnight Lisbon 4 nights)
Day 7 / Lisbon Part 2 (overnight Lisbon)
Day 8 / day trip to Sintra + Cabo da Roca (overnight Lisbon)
Day 9 / Lisbon + free time for souvenir shopping + Eealry! farewell dinner
Day 10 / 5 am check out, fly home

Does this make sense? Am I missing something that would fit better with our itinerary? Also, Obidos I understand has become very touristy (I'm a tourist myself of course! but would like to avoid super crowded places)

There were other places that I really liked the look of:
-- Braga and Guimaraes, but I think there's no way to fit them in.
-- Monsanto village because the rock formation there looks absolutely stunning, but I think that it's too far and hard to get to.
-- Evora also looks interesting and has UNESCO sites

So considering the point of splitting our hotel nights between Lisbon and Porto, is my itinerary the best it can be? Would you suggest any changes?

Would appreciate any insights, comments, and suggestions!

Thank you!!

Are you stopping in Coimbra? If only on the way to Porto, limit your visit to the old university:

You could visit the Batalha UNESCO World Heritage Site en route to Porto and or Coimbra's awesome university library and courtyard in its upper town.

Obidos is a good stop by IMO despite the crowds.

Thank you Michael and PalenQ for your replies!

Michael, yes, I agree with you, we'll only do the University with the Library + lunch in Coimbra since it looks like it's going to be on the way to Porto. Wish I had more time there as it seems like a wonderful place to explore.

PalenQ, Batalha UNESCO World Heritage Site! Looks amazing! I wonder how much time needed to do just the monastery. If we can pair it with Obidos (which I am still debating about keeping

* Wow, yes, it's beautiful!
*

And you can always take a taxi. They are very reasonable. We used taxis quite a bit because I have some mobility issues. Taking taxis did not detract from our trip at all. We took a taxi, for example, from our hotel to the Sao Jorge Castle, so we did not have to walk up the hills. After leaving the castle, we walked all over the Alfama.

consider taking trains -easily done between Lisbon and Porto - forget Obidos but do day trips from Porto and Lisbon - for lots on trains check www.pc.pt; www.seat61.com; BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com. Guimares and Braga make wonderful day trips from Porto. Driving would be nice but you have little time for that.

wow, that is quite scary! I so want to avoid a tour of a hospital! As I mentioned there are a couple of ladies close to or even over 80! I really have to make sure they come prepared ...and at the same time not scare them away from actually going to Portugal ))

That's perfect, I want to figure out our daily itinerary so that we start at the top and work out way down. We did that in Albaicin in Granada and it was much better than climbing upwards.

I see from time to time recommendations to skip Obidos. Is that becuase it's crowded? The photos look lovely, but once you imagine the narrow lanes full of people.... I felt the same way in Cordoba. There is this super famous Flower Lane, but in fact, all I could see where people people people. Didn't really feel the charm of the place.

That's what I'm hoping for. Since everything is really on the way, I think it makes for some nice stops to stretch our legs. A long bus ride is never fun.

Thinking of amending my initial plan fo flying to and out of Lisbon. For some crazy reason (perhaps due to the fact that Rugby World Cup is held in Japan this year??), tickets to Portugal in Sept / Oct are really expensive. So, our usual airline (the one that only flies to Lisbon) has fares that only about 100euros cheaper than flying with KLM to lisbon and out of Porto ....OR the other way around. Not 100% sure if I can get open-jaw tickets, but just in case, I want to work out what the optimal itinerary should be.

So, my question is -- Would you start with Lisbon and finish in Porto or start in Porto and finish in Lisbon?

I think I read somewhere that it's preferable to save the best for last. I guess the first few days people are sluggish and jet-legged etc, etc. So for example, when we go to Russia, I always do Moscow first and St. Petersburg last.

I'm kind of leaning toward starting in Porto.
either Option 1
3 nights in Porto (which is really only 2 full days there)
1 nigth in Coimbra
5 nights in Lisbon

or Option 2
4 nights in Porto
5 nights in Lisbon

If we stay one night in Coimbra that would mean that we have
day 1/ 22.30h arrival / check in around midnight (3 nights in Porto)
day 2 / full day in Porto
day 3 / Duoro valley full day tour
day 4 / check out > transfer to Coimbra (overnight in Coimbra)
day 5 / check out > transfer to Lisbon with stops along the way: Bathala monastery, Obidos, Marfa Palace perhaps.. haven't decided yet (Lisbon 5 nights)
day 6 / Lisbon + dinner w/ Fado
day 7 / Sintra day trip
day 8 / Evora day trip (with dinner in Sesimbra？reading that it's worth the stop)
day 9 / Lisbon + farewell dinner
day 10 / depart 10 am

I am getting a feeling that I am shorthanded myself on Porto. Our first day is going to be slow and how much can we see in a day. Also, due to the jetlag ..having Port wine tasting ...hm... It feels like we'll do a couple of churches, the bridge, the wine caves...and that's about it if I am being realistic. Also, we eat kind of slowly, so that means at least 90min for lunch and 2.-2.5 hours for dinner. So I wonder, whether I should go with option 2 by skipping an overnight stay in Combra and just doing the University (Royal Palace + Chapel of St. Michael + Joanine Library) and moving on to Lisbon via another stop along the way.

day 1/ 22.30h arrival in Porto / check in around midnight (４ nights in Porto)
day 2 / full day in Porto
day 3 / Duoro valley full day tour
day 4 / Full day in Porto
day 5 / check out > transfer to Lisbon via Coimbra University with possibly one or two stops along the way: Bathala monastery, Obidos, Marfa Palace...? (Lisbon 5 nights)
day 6 / Lisbon + dinner w/ Fado
day 7 / Sintra day trip
day 8 / Evora day trip (with dinner in Sesimbra？reading that it's worth the stop)
day 9 / Lisbon + farewell dinner
day 10 / depart 10 am from LIsbon

I know it's very busy. But we are Japanese )). This is quite easy by Japanese standards ). In 8 days they usually visit the whole of Spain + Portugal ))

Would appreciate your feedback / advice! By the way, the reverse is also possible. Starting in LIsbon and finishing in Porto.

Thank you,
Anna

KarenWoo is right about taking taxis in Lisbon. They are extremely inexpensive, and relatively easy to find. You'll be fine.

Porto or Lisbon first or last? Can't see a difference but check air fares for each coming and going. Yes to another day in Porto itself.

Option 2 looks better but not ideal. You will have only 2 days in Lisbon, which is compressed even by Japanese standards.

Day 1 arrival at nearly midnight really doesn't count as a day, just a night. The next day is bound to be plagued with jet lag so not really a "full day" in Porto. The 10:45 AM free Porto Walkers city tour that lasts three hours might work, plus it gives the group a chance to walk in the sunlight to help with jet lag recovery. Follow with unch at a place of your choosing along the Ribeira (where the walking tour ends) before the afternoon Port Wine tour at 3 pm by Porto Walkers and when it concludes at 7 pm you have time for dinner. The food hall on the Gaia side of the river is casual and fun, with lots of options and close to where the afternoon tour concludes. The next day, if you take a minivan (as opposed to boat) tour to Douro Valley there's time to nap on the road if needed. Plus, they pick you up at the hotel so no need to make your way to the river to embark. The three wineries and lunch tour by EFun Tours was excellent! The next day you can visit the Serralves museum, then have a nice lunch and take an afternoon train to Lisbon. Even better, if you make that trek by charter minibus instead, a stop at Coimbra for a brief visit to the University is reasonable.
Sintra and Evora will be all day events.

Taxis and uber are readily available, reasonably priced and a godsend in contending with the hills both Porto and Lisbon.
If you'd like to engage the assistance of a local expert, I was more than delighted with the service of Maureen Ferguson at Grape Olive Pig. If you contact her and let her know what you would like to do with your time in Lisbon I'd bet she can help with arrangements.

Exactly! that's why I am a little skeptical about doing 3 nights in Porto. First night is just to sleep. So only 2 days really. We'll be very slow on the first full day and adding "port wine" tasting then would probably mean that everyone would be falling asleep at the dinner table . I thought if we stayed an extra night (skipping the overnight in Coimbra), we could do the wine cave tour on the day after the Duoro Valley tour. So I'm on board with doing Coimbra University en route to Lisbon cause this was the original idea. still that leaves me with only 2 full days in Lisbon though. 2 full days in Lisbon and 2 full days in Porto. I can see that most people recommend more time for Lisbon since the number of attractions there is much greater.

Initially, I was not planning to do Evora, but I often see that it should not be missed. And of course, Sintra is a must. So, I guess I'm stuck!

I've been playing YouTube videos about Portugal on a loop. And the more I see and the more I research, I'm already in love with Portugal. It's sooooo hard to choose what to see. I have to be realistic, and I also know that for everyone in our group it's the one and only visit to Portugal. So I cannot keep something for the next visit.

Decisions decisions

If you have to cut one or the other, I'd give up Evora and keep Sintra.
If your group is OK with fairly crammed schedule, there are organized day tours from Lisbon that hit both Cascais and Sintra. In Sintra, the main attraction is Peña Palace, and joining a tour group which provides skip-the-line tickets is very well advised. You can not bother with Palacio National other than to see the outside (if that.)

The Evora day trip can be kept in flux - if two days in enough for Lisbon then hop the bus or train to Evora - no pre-booking needed for train not sure about bus. Evora to me is exceptional but others here were rather let down.

Thank you all!

For now, I'll keep a day trip to Evora on a backburner. We'll definitely visit Sintra (even though the prospect of it being overrun by crowds is a scary one). It wins over Evora in terms of being so close to Lisbon and a good combination with Cabo da Roca.

In Sintra, I don't think we'll have time and energy for more than 2 places. I guess you can't visit Sintra without going to Pena Palace. So we are definitely doing that plus I found that they have Horse carriage rides through the park, and whenever possible I always try to get a horse carriage ride when we go to Europe. Second place, Quinta da Regaliera for the gardens and the Initiation Well.

I'm thinking Cabo da Roca in the morning, followed by either Pena Palace (with horse carriage ride) or Quinta da Regaliera before lunch and the other site after lunch. I had a very kind reply from the information department at Parques de Sintra suggesting to avoid visiting Pena Palace between 10 am and 3pm due to crowds.