Languages...choosing one!
#22
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,916
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I am also a lawyer, and have been a partner in a major international law firm, doing deals in six continents, in dozens of countries. The only countries where we had to hire translators were Russia and China -- in all the other countries where I did deals and where English was not the primary language, like Spain, Brazil, Thailand, Indonesia -- the businesspeople all spoke English, and meetings were conducted in English.
Again, and even more so now that I understand you are a lawyer, I would recommend Arabic, or Mandarin, since that's where I think the international deals will be.
Again, and even more so now that I understand you are a lawyer, I would recommend Arabic, or Mandarin, since that's where I think the international deals will be.
#23
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 559
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Rosetta Stone is very popular as a supplement to classroom learning. I have had several students use the Russian version and really enjoy it, but I don't think it can take the place of a teacher.
There is a shortage of Russian & English speakers according to the US gov't... but don't bother learning Russian, I'd rather give the opportunity to my own students.
(Kidding, obviously...)
There is a shortage of Russian & English speakers according to the US gov't... but don't bother learning Russian, I'd rather give the opportunity to my own students.

(Kidding, obviously...)
#24
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 0
As a corporate lawyer with an international law firm, my honest and best recommendation would be to first speak with a legal recruiter to find out if the language skills would appreciably assist you in moving into the private sector. I don't know if you have a specific law firm in mind, or you are simply making yourself more marketable up front. If you're fairly high up in the government and you want to lateral into a law firm at a senior associate/counsel level, their primary considerations are going to be your relevant work experience - NOT your language skills - unless you also have the work experience to pair with the international work you're trying to get hired to do. Language skills are just a bonus, but RARELY the determining factor in whether to hire a lateral candidate. Unless you make it clear that you're willing to come in at a much junior level, the language skills alone would not be enough.
And, unless your interests are in being local counsel on international deals not involving the US, the negotiations and contracts will generally occur in English. I've done and seen dozens of international corporate deals - they're always done in English. So, some of the client contacts may be in the native language, but English is generally the language used.
However, if you still wanted to learn a language to advance in the global business economy, I'd say Mandarin. But I don't think that you'll be able to sell a large firm on paying for your lessons (even if you've started on your own) from the beginning of your employment unless your government experience was in a field that dovetails well with that international practice and they think the language skills are worth it. Their primary considerations in you as a lateral candidate would be your work experience or the government expertise you could bring to the firm.
And, unless your interests are in being local counsel on international deals not involving the US, the negotiations and contracts will generally occur in English. I've done and seen dozens of international corporate deals - they're always done in English. So, some of the client contacts may be in the native language, but English is generally the language used.
However, if you still wanted to learn a language to advance in the global business economy, I'd say Mandarin. But I don't think that you'll be able to sell a large firm on paying for your lessons (even if you've started on your own) from the beginning of your employment unless your government experience was in a field that dovetails well with that international practice and they think the language skills are worth it. Their primary considerations in you as a lateral candidate would be your work experience or the government expertise you could bring to the firm.
#25
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,184
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Russian...shudder! Spent four years at University including a year in Moscow and at the end could barely hold a conversation with a five year old.
Tooo complicated. Verbal aspects, verbs of motion, three genders, fully declined with six case, no articles or verb "to be", and no familiar latin looking works...
French on the other hand is like falling off a log.
Tooo complicated. Verbal aspects, verbs of motion, three genders, fully declined with six case, no articles or verb "to be", and no familiar latin looking works...
French on the other hand is like falling off a log.
#26

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 35,152
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For no other preferences, I think French is much easier than Spanish, as someone noted above. I just think the grammar and verbs and a lot of it is so much easier than Spanish which has so many irregularities and too many different ways of saying something. I know some people always say Spanish is easier than French, but when I ask them why they say that, they usually don't know either one very well, and just say something about the pronunciation. Well, maybe so, a little, but that isn't the core part of a language to trump everything else to me. I was speaking at a party with a woman who teaches both French and Spanish in high school, and she agree with me, also, that she thought Spanish was a more difficult language.
In any case, I know some govt lawyers and have done consulting work to some law firms, and I agree you really need to talk to someone about this because, while I think it is admirable to learn another language (for fulfillment or travel), I would say the idea that you are going to get paid more or something because of that is highly unlikely and it won't happen quickly.
First, it takes years and years to learn a language fluently. Law isn't debatable, you couldn't depend on someone making mistakes and actually conducting much business in a foreign language unless they really knew what they were saying. It might come in handy in patent law, for reading, actually, and reading is not as difficult as learning to speak fluently.
Many corporations may cover education costs for anyone for anything, if it can be somewhat justified that it may enhance their job. This shouldn't be too difficult, if it can be. That is on a course by course approval basis, though. However, the costs of language classes are really not very much and shouldn't be some major issue for a lawyer. I take language classes after work most of the year (at least 6-9 months), and pay for them myself without hardship. They are only a few hundred dollars.
In any case, I know some govt lawyers and have done consulting work to some law firms, and I agree you really need to talk to someone about this because, while I think it is admirable to learn another language (for fulfillment or travel), I would say the idea that you are going to get paid more or something because of that is highly unlikely and it won't happen quickly.
First, it takes years and years to learn a language fluently. Law isn't debatable, you couldn't depend on someone making mistakes and actually conducting much business in a foreign language unless they really knew what they were saying. It might come in handy in patent law, for reading, actually, and reading is not as difficult as learning to speak fluently.
Many corporations may cover education costs for anyone for anything, if it can be somewhat justified that it may enhance their job. This shouldn't be too difficult, if it can be. That is on a course by course approval basis, though. However, the costs of language classes are really not very much and shouldn't be some major issue for a lawyer. I take language classes after work most of the year (at least 6-9 months), and pay for them myself without hardship. They are only a few hundred dollars.
#27
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 98,198
Likes: 12
pmgoosed- I would just start something asap. Doesn't matter which one (although I still vote for either French or Spanish). See how it goes. For success in this, I think you need to find the right language for your brain, and your situation.
I would also recommend to start with a class, not tapes or CD. I think personal interaction is very important. Even a simple 8 weeks class aimed at travelers at a community college would be good imo.
I would also recommend to start with a class, not tapes or CD. I think personal interaction is very important. Even a simple 8 weeks class aimed at travelers at a community college would be good imo.
#28
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
waring:
Russian isn't so hard, but I do appreciate people keeping up that perception in the world... it gives my students that many more opportunities to show off...
I, personally, hate the thought of learning to fall off a log... kinda dull.
Russian isn't so hard, but I do appreciate people keeping up that perception in the world... it gives my students that many more opportunities to show off...

I, personally, hate the thought of learning to fall off a log... kinda dull.
#29
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 0
No matter what you read here, your professional needs and the implications of your language choice (if you end up making the effort) on your career are something none of us here can ascertain.
That said, Spanish will be the easiest to learn. And if you want to do it the Europe-Spanish way (Castilian, with the fussy th etc.), you already know how to say that.
French comes much less easily to American tongues. Just try to roll the r, and learn the three or four ways to say "I don't know" (je ne sais pas - which hardly anybody actually says that way).
If you did advanced Latin or ancient Greek in school, the endings etc. in Russian or French or German won't scare you, that's just how most Latin-derived languages function. English is a lazy exception in that regard, but it has its own trickiness, of course, mostly due to inconsistences (how many ways to pronounce -ough for example, or how many ways to spell the sound made by the letters earn - urn - ern - ?).
Research your own field first, then make a big commitment and stick to it. Daily practice will do it, anything else - you will be kidding yourself.
That said, Spanish will be the easiest to learn. And if you want to do it the Europe-Spanish way (Castilian, with the fussy th etc.), you already know how to say that.
French comes much less easily to American tongues. Just try to roll the r, and learn the three or four ways to say "I don't know" (je ne sais pas - which hardly anybody actually says that way).
If you did advanced Latin or ancient Greek in school, the endings etc. in Russian or French or German won't scare you, that's just how most Latin-derived languages function. English is a lazy exception in that regard, but it has its own trickiness, of course, mostly due to inconsistences (how many ways to pronounce -ough for example, or how many ways to spell the sound made by the letters earn - urn - ern - ?).
Research your own field first, then make a big commitment and stick to it. Daily practice will do it, anything else - you will be kidding yourself.
#30
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 0
Much good advice. Do consider that language, any language is simply a tool. Consequently, your time could be spent more profitably learning foreign business practices and their local customs. The UN is staffed and operating with people who only know one language but are experts about their own countries. Recreation! learn Italian!
#31
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,184
Likes: 0
Katya, do I get the impression you are Russian?
I meant no criticism of the Russian language, I think it is beautiful, much more so than French, which is rather monotonous.
I can still understand it pretty well and impress the hell out of people with my rendition of "Respected passengers, attention the doors are closing......." announcement that you hear on the Moscow subway.
I meant no criticism of the Russian language, I think it is beautiful, much more so than French, which is rather monotonous.
I can still understand it pretty well and impress the hell out of people with my rendition of "Respected passengers, attention the doors are closing......." announcement that you hear on the Moscow subway.
#33
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Personally, I recommend learning German; however, please keep in mind that I'm biased, given that I just returned from Oktoberfest 
Also, I've heard my friends say that German is a relatively easy language to pick up, so it may be a good place to start.

Also, I've heard my friends say that German is a relatively easy language to pick up, so it may be a good place to start.
#35
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
If the Chinese manufacturing juggernaut continues into the 21st century, and one envisions oneself as an international business leader: Mandarin.
Assuming one has the aural acuity to distinguish the 4 'tones' of spoken Mandarin, the spoken language is actually relatively simple. No tenses. No genders. No plurals. Grammar is pretty much just word-order, much like English. Vocabulary starts with one-syllable 'particles' which are expressive in and of themselves, and which when combined can express complex concepts.
The stumbling block for me with Mandarin was always the *written* language. In fact, I was once (thanks to the military language training I was sent to) verbally quite fluent in Mandarin, but completely illiterate, except for a very recognizing a few simple characters.
I also studied, and gained near-native fluency in German. I love the language, and speak it still whenever I have the chance....but it's not terrifically useful outside of Germany, or maybe the Czech Republic. At least I'm fully literate in German!
Fritzrl
Assuming one has the aural acuity to distinguish the 4 'tones' of spoken Mandarin, the spoken language is actually relatively simple. No tenses. No genders. No plurals. Grammar is pretty much just word-order, much like English. Vocabulary starts with one-syllable 'particles' which are expressive in and of themselves, and which when combined can express complex concepts.
The stumbling block for me with Mandarin was always the *written* language. In fact, I was once (thanks to the military language training I was sent to) verbally quite fluent in Mandarin, but completely illiterate, except for a very recognizing a few simple characters.
I also studied, and gained near-native fluency in German. I love the language, and speak it still whenever I have the chance....but it's not terrifically useful outside of Germany, or maybe the Czech Republic. At least I'm fully literate in German!
Fritzrl
#36
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Regarding your inquiry about Rosetta Stone: I highly recommend using this software. Although I've never actually used it myself, the college where I taught used it for the students and they all loved it, stating that it was easy to use and learn from. I would suggest checking it out at a local college library first, to ensure that the software will meet your needs. This way, you'll save you a few bucks...giving you more money to spend for travel, right?
#37
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
Likes: 5
As a lawyer, i would be worried about relying too much on my imperfect knowledge of any foreign language spoken by a client, except in the most casual social situation. It's all too easy to misunderstand instructions even when you are both speaking your native tongue, let alone when one of you is practising your 2nd or 3rd language.
I would concentrate on a language you really like the sound or feel of; learning any foreign language will enrich your own. If you get good enough to use it professionally, that's a bonus.
I would concentrate on a language you really like the sound or feel of; learning any foreign language will enrich your own. If you get good enough to use it professionally, that's a bonus.
#39
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,421
Likes: 0
I am proud of having learned German, in part because it was the native tongue of so many of my ancestors. But in truth, none of them would have spoken the standard “Schriftdeutsch” that I learned. They all spoke dialects.
And, pmgoosed, that is probably your case as well. Like Germany, Italy is primarily a country of dialects. If you spoke standard Italian, you grandfather might not have understood you.
According to surveys by the European Union, German, including native speakers, is the most commonly spoken first or second language in the EU (even more than English). It is also the most commonly spoken second language, after English. Although 50% of Germans say they can speak English, compared to 32% of French, 28% of Italians, and 20% of Spanish, because of their larger population, there are almost as many Germans who don’t speak English, and therefore opportunities to practice, as any other language.
Ultimately, it comes down to where you want to travel. My German won’t do me much good in most of Italy. Spanish won’t get you very far in Europe except for in Spain.
And, at the risk of offending some, worldwide, English is the most important, maybe the only important, language in the world. Many times in Europe, I have seen people, neither of whom speaks English as a first language, communicating in English because that is the one language they both know.
And, pmgoosed, that is probably your case as well. Like Germany, Italy is primarily a country of dialects. If you spoke standard Italian, you grandfather might not have understood you.
According to surveys by the European Union, German, including native speakers, is the most commonly spoken first or second language in the EU (even more than English). It is also the most commonly spoken second language, after English. Although 50% of Germans say they can speak English, compared to 32% of French, 28% of Italians, and 20% of Spanish, because of their larger population, there are almost as many Germans who don’t speak English, and therefore opportunities to practice, as any other language.
Ultimately, it comes down to where you want to travel. My German won’t do me much good in most of Italy. Spanish won’t get you very far in Europe except for in Spain.
And, at the risk of offending some, worldwide, English is the most important, maybe the only important, language in the world. Many times in Europe, I have seen people, neither of whom speaks English as a first language, communicating in English because that is the one language they both know.

