Lack of diversity? Venice/Florence/Rome
May 7th, 2015, 09:56 AM
#21
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An apartment will definitely give you more room - but less local support - so it depends on which is more important.
As for hotels - it depends on what bed configuration you need. If you can use 2 double beds then you should use this as a selection criteria after price and location when searching the web sites. If you need one double bed and 2 single beds - this will usually be quite difficult to get and you may need to get two separate rooms - one double and one twin.
As for getting a roof terrace, there are a number of hotels that have them but many will not be in your price range. I know that a few months ago someone was looking for this in Rome - you might want to search for that thread to see the recos, which seemed to include a number in a more modest/moderate budget.
Sorry I can;t help with specific since this is not our price point. (We had a great hotel in Florence with a roof terrace/bar - right by the PV - and the views were gorgeous - but the rate was more than twice your budget for the two of us - a deluxe room with seating area.)
As for hotels - it depends on what bed configuration you need. If you can use 2 double beds then you should use this as a selection criteria after price and location when searching the web sites. If you need one double bed and 2 single beds - this will usually be quite difficult to get and you may need to get two separate rooms - one double and one twin.
As for getting a roof terrace, there are a number of hotels that have them but many will not be in your price range. I know that a few months ago someone was looking for this in Rome - you might want to search for that thread to see the recos, which seemed to include a number in a more modest/moderate budget.
Sorry I can;t help with specific since this is not our price point. (We had a great hotel in Florence with a roof terrace/bar - right by the PV - and the views were gorgeous - but the rate was more than twice your budget for the two of us - a deluxe room with seating area.)
May 7th, 2015, 10:00 AM
#22
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Ditto to NYTRAVELER's suggestion to book hotels as soon as you know your dates, especially if you book a cancelable rate that does not require a deposit.
Hotels do fill up, and rates can rise over time. This puts a ceiling on the price you pay.
On the other hand, if you book early and the rate goes down, you can either get your rate revised or cancel and rebook.
There's no advantage to waiting to book if just a CC guarantee is required and the room is cancelable.
Hotels do fill up, and rates can rise over time. This puts a ceiling on the price you pay.
On the other hand, if you book early and the rate goes down, you can either get your rate revised or cancel and rebook.
There's no advantage to waiting to book if just a CC guarantee is required and the room is cancelable.
May 7th, 2015, 10:53 AM
#23
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I avoid the InterCity trains at all costs; I'd pay double to avoid one of those tiny compartments and the crowded corridors. You wouldn't have found it much better in 1st class. You certainly wouldn't have found the seating Palenq is praising to the skies. The 1st class compartments are identical, except they have only four seats instead of six. Same overhead racks and nowhere else to put your luggage. The corridors are just as bad. Fortunately, those old compartment trains are disappearing.
It's an entirely different situation from the high-speed "Freccia" trainsm which, even if they're full, an exceedingly rare event, are never overcrowded.
I don't care whether I sit next to someone else on the train, especially if it's my travel companion. And, you know, Palenq, you're not guaranteed one of those single seats. In 1st class only 1/3 of the seats are one-across. It's true that you can choose your seat on the Freccia trains, but not everyone is going to get what he wants.
It's an entirely different situation from the high-speed "Freccia" trainsm which, even if they're full, an exceedingly rare event, are never overcrowded.
I don't care whether I sit next to someone else on the train, especially if it's my travel companion. And, you know, Palenq, you're not guaranteed one of those single seats. In 1st class only 1/3 of the seats are one-across. It's true that you can choose your seat on the Freccia trains, but not everyone is going to get what he wants.
May 7th, 2015, 10:57 AM
#24
Your plan is fine. Especially since you don't want to rent a car I think sticking to the 3 cities is best.
Is the $200/night for all 4 of you to stay in the same hotel room? Finding "quad" rooms is not easy.
I'm no expert (only been to Venice, twice) but I didn't buy train tickets in advance, just went to the train station when it was time to go. Between these 3 cities trains run all the time.
Is the $200/night for all 4 of you to stay in the same hotel room? Finding "quad" rooms is not easy.
I'm no expert (only been to Venice, twice) but I didn't buy train tickets in advance, just went to the train station when it was time to go. Between these 3 cities trains run all the time.
May 7th, 2015, 12:51 PM
#25
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bvlenci,
The intercity was the only option for my trip. Yes, I knew about the compartments but when I have done it in 1st class there have been much less people on 1st class , actually both times I had a compartment just for myself.
The intercity was the only option for my trip. Yes, I knew about the compartments but when I have done it in 1st class there have been much less people on 1st class , actually both times I had a compartment just for myself.
May 7th, 2015, 01:59 PM
#26
If you are going to use the trains I would suggest you go onto either the Trenitalia or the Italiarail sites around 120 days out and start looking for fares. The cheapest ones sell out very quickly.
I always use First because IMO it is worth the money for the additional room it offers. Using Frecce services means there will also be more room to store luggage although depending on how much you have those overhead racks on the IC/EC services are often large enough if you are willing to get creative and stack bags.
If you are leaving from an origination station such as Venice Santa Lucia you owe it to yourself to get there early and be one of the first to board regardless of which service you use IMO.
I always use First because IMO it is worth the money for the additional room it offers. Using Frecce services means there will also be more room to store luggage although depending on how much you have those overhead racks on the IC/EC services are often large enough if you are willing to get creative and stack bags.
If you are leaving from an origination station such as Venice Santa Lucia you owe it to yourself to get there early and be one of the first to board regardless of which service you use IMO.
May 7th, 2015, 02:10 PM
#27
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You certainly wouldn't have found the seating Palenq is praising to the skies. The 1st class compartments are identical, except they have only four seats instead of six.>
cruiselov's experience of having a whole compartment to her/him on the two IC trains she's taken in first class mirrors mine - almost always a compartment to myself on trains that have compartments and fewer and fewer IC trains I believe do - rather be in a compartment by myself then one with six folks packed in it. Again I differ from bvienci's take that the difference between classes is just a "few extra inches of seat room" - it is the often half-full first class that makes it relaxing and bvienci recently said first class was usually half full.
There is a significant difference between the classes - not just a few inches as bv says - and this I will stridently present - especially for those on the trip of a lifetime and carrying way too much luggage.
cruiselov's experience of having a whole compartment to her/him on the two IC trains she's taken in first class mirrors mine - almost always a compartment to myself on trains that have compartments and fewer and fewer IC trains I believe do - rather be in a compartment by myself then one with six folks packed in it. Again I differ from bvienci's take that the difference between classes is just a "few extra inches of seat room" - it is the often half-full first class that makes it relaxing and bvienci recently said first class was usually half full.
There is a significant difference between the classes - not just a few inches as bv says - and this I will stridently present - especially for those on the trip of a lifetime and carrying way too much luggage.
May 7th, 2015, 03:31 PM
#28
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Thanks guys... What is considered too much luggage? And how big is the compartment? What luggage size should be avoided? The plan is to travel light but for a 2 week trip I can't imagine simply backbags at least not for my parents... I suppose for my parents it's better to have 2 medium size suitcases instead of 1 big one?
May 7th, 2015, 03:48 PM
#31
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I travel with a 21- or 22-inch rolling bag and a shoulder tote that slips over the rolling bag for trips of 2-3 weeks all the time. I suppose one could use a 24-inch bag without much difficulty, but I wouldn't want to move around with anything bigger than that.
The key really is how much each piece of luggage weighs, since you have to lift them. And I suspect the bigger the bag, the more it will weigh since it will contain more. I'd rather deal with my two smaller, easier-to-lift bags than one large suitcase.
Not only might you have to lift the suitcase over your head and into a rack, but you also have to get it up three steep, narrow steps just to get on to the train. If I'm traveling with a friend, one of us usually gets on the train and the other passes the luggage up the steps to him or her. Some of the train stations might require climbing stairs with your cases just to reach the train platform. And Venice is full of bridges, so you might have to carry your suitcases over a bridge or two (or more) just to find your hotel.
The key really is how much each piece of luggage weighs, since you have to lift them. And I suspect the bigger the bag, the more it will weigh since it will contain more. I'd rather deal with my two smaller, easier-to-lift bags than one large suitcase.
Not only might you have to lift the suitcase over your head and into a rack, but you also have to get it up three steep, narrow steps just to get on to the train. If I'm traveling with a friend, one of us usually gets on the train and the other passes the luggage up the steps to him or her. Some of the train stations might require climbing stairs with your cases just to reach the train platform. And Venice is full of bridges, so you might have to carry your suitcases over a bridge or two (or more) just to find your hotel.
May 7th, 2015, 07:01 PM
#33
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I'm a woman and not a strong one. Unfortunately , I don't know what it's to travel "light" 
Somehow I have always been able to get my suitcases in or out of the train and find space for them, except that time in the horrid 2nd class compartment. However, with the Intercity type of trains( and frankly, any other type of train) , I must add myself to PalenQ's admonition : just go first class! Usually the price difference is not that significant, specially if you buy your ticket in advance. Caveat emptor!
Somehow I have always been able to get my suitcases in or out of the train and find space for them, except that time in the horrid 2nd class compartment. However, with the Intercity type of trains( and frankly, any other type of train) , I must add myself to PalenQ's admonition : just go first class! Usually the price difference is not that significant, specially if you buy your ticket in advance. Caveat emptor!
May 8th, 2015, 10:04 AM
#34
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Next year (2016) Easter will be the 27th of march, so that shouldn't be an issue for you, on the other hand the 25th of april (public holyday in Italy) will come on monday and that will be a chance for short trips for many italians, so expect bigger crowds on that weekend; the next holyday, may the 1st (labour day) instead will be on sunday, which is already an holyday obviously, so I wouldn't expect a worse situation than other weekends.
May 10th, 2015, 01:01 PM
#35
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Yes for folks who may not realize it the week before and after Easter are hectic times in Italian towns and especially Rome because of the pilgrims or whatever you call the faithful who flock in from all over.
But Europeans also have school holidays and vacations then to and they come south to Italy - though it may be exciting to be in Rome and the Vatican around Easter expect hotels to be hard to find so if going in that time span book extremely early - if not into the religious thing try to avoid those two hectic weeks.
But Europeans also have school holidays and vacations then to and they come south to Italy - though it may be exciting to be in Rome and the Vatican around Easter expect hotels to be hard to find so if going in that time span book extremely early - if not into the religious thing try to avoid those two hectic weeks.
May 14th, 2015, 09:15 PM
#37
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After much research, I'm starting to think that Florence is less interesting than Venice and Rome... There seems to be a few squares and churches that are beautiful, but otherwise it will be museums... And since both Rome and Venice have so much architecture and are basically outdoor museums, I'm thinking of maybe skipping Florence and staying somewhere else in between Venice and Rome. The problem is that Florence would have been the easiest since we will only be using public transportation, but what are other options? Maybe a beautiful small town set in Tuscany with some nice views, basically something "nature" oriented...
I know that my dad loves nature and beautiful scenery, over big cities... So where in Tuscany can I stay for maybe 4 days that gives us the experience of a countryside village with enough to do for a few days? Not too big but not tiny either, something that just feels like we are in the countryside but where we can walk many streets, many shops, many terraces with views, churches, etc. but still feel that we are surrounded by nature and we are in the countryside...
Or it oculd be a village near a lake? you know, just something relaxing but with amazing scenery and just a different experience from the big cities... I can't imagine skipping Rome or Venice, but for some reason Florence feels repetitive and I'm thinking of staying instead in some small town in the countryside. But something maybe near a train or bus, that way it's easy to get there from Venice and then go from there to Rome?
Anyway if it's basically almost impossible to do this without a car, I guess we'll pick Florence and do some day trips into the countryside, and hopefully Florence will surprise us and we'll actually love it. But based on the videos I've seen it looks less interesting than Rome and Venice
So might as well trade it for a smaller town somewhere in the countryside or near a lake, surrounded by some amazing settings of nature. Hopefully there are options/suggestions to do a Venice-Town-Rome trip very easily by public transportation...
I know that my dad loves nature and beautiful scenery, over big cities... So where in Tuscany can I stay for maybe 4 days that gives us the experience of a countryside village with enough to do for a few days? Not too big but not tiny either, something that just feels like we are in the countryside but where we can walk many streets, many shops, many terraces with views, churches, etc. but still feel that we are surrounded by nature and we are in the countryside...
Or it oculd be a village near a lake? you know, just something relaxing but with amazing scenery and just a different experience from the big cities... I can't imagine skipping Rome or Venice, but for some reason Florence feels repetitive and I'm thinking of staying instead in some small town in the countryside. But something maybe near a train or bus, that way it's easy to get there from Venice and then go from there to Rome?
Anyway if it's basically almost impossible to do this without a car, I guess we'll pick Florence and do some day trips into the countryside, and hopefully Florence will surprise us and we'll actually love it. But based on the videos I've seen it looks less interesting than Rome and Venice
So might as well trade it for a smaller town somewhere in the countryside or near a lake, surrounded by some amazing settings of nature. Hopefully there are options/suggestions to do a Venice-Town-Rome trip very easily by public transportation...
May 14th, 2015, 09:19 PM
#38
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I hope I'm not underrating Florence too much... lol but I've also read many comments how Florence was disappointing to many people, while for Venice it seems that everyone is saying how it's unique and how everyone should visit it at least one in their life, while for Rome everyone is saying that it's so full of history and things to do... Florence just seems to be less special? People seem to be raving about the Tuscany countryside more?
May 14th, 2015, 10:15 PM
#39
There are some places that might suit.
There are a bunch of walled cities in the plains you could look at like Lucca or Ferrara both on the railway system, with castles or towers and lots of nice restaurants, people watching, parks etc.
From Lucca you could day commutes to Pisa and Florence using the local commute train.
From Ferrara you could do local commutes to Bologna and Padua maybe even Ravenna. Bologna might also be a good base but it is a much bigger city.
Up in the Tuscan hills train links get a little poorer but certainly Siena is worth looking at and Pienza (which I often don't recommend) offers you a flat town with fine views over the hills around which might be good if you've had enough of tramping for a bit. Getting here might mean a taxi or a bus but why not (I suspect Pienza for 4 days might be a little dull) Siena, on the other hand, would fill at least a couple of full days and you could catch a bus to some of the other local spots.
April and May still not too hot but you could look at spas a bit further south for a 4 day soak, other than that I think a car is needed as you head into Tuscany for other "cities" to stay in.
Is Florence special? Well two things happened that make Florence special. The area was ravaged by war, mainly between Florence and Siena, then along came the black death that killed between 1/3 and 1/2 of the population of both cities.......
just think about what that would mean in your home town.....
over the next generation whichever city got back on its feet faster had the chance to win the war. Florence did it and suddenly had a chance not to be at war (at least with their bitterest enemy) and spent the next hundred years launching the Renaissance. Nothing (nothing) in your life would be as it is unless the Renaissance had come along when it did. So is it special?? Yep.
If you go to Siena you will see the cathedral that they had before the Black Death (if a bit tidied up over the last 500 years) but they were planning a bigger one which would have filled the square the present one is in.
There are a bunch of walled cities in the plains you could look at like Lucca or Ferrara both on the railway system, with castles or towers and lots of nice restaurants, people watching, parks etc.
From Lucca you could day commutes to Pisa and Florence using the local commute train.
From Ferrara you could do local commutes to Bologna and Padua maybe even Ravenna. Bologna might also be a good base but it is a much bigger city.
Up in the Tuscan hills train links get a little poorer but certainly Siena is worth looking at and Pienza (which I often don't recommend) offers you a flat town with fine views over the hills around which might be good if you've had enough of tramping for a bit. Getting here might mean a taxi or a bus but why not (I suspect Pienza for 4 days might be a little dull) Siena, on the other hand, would fill at least a couple of full days and you could catch a bus to some of the other local spots.
April and May still not too hot but you could look at spas a bit further south for a 4 day soak, other than that I think a car is needed as you head into Tuscany for other "cities" to stay in.
Is Florence special? Well two things happened that make Florence special. The area was ravaged by war, mainly between Florence and Siena, then along came the black death that killed between 1/3 and 1/2 of the population of both cities.......
just think about what that would mean in your home town.....
over the next generation whichever city got back on its feet faster had the chance to win the war. Florence did it and suddenly had a chance not to be at war (at least with their bitterest enemy) and spent the next hundred years launching the Renaissance. Nothing (nothing) in your life would be as it is unless the Renaissance had come along when it did. So is it special?? Yep.
If you go to Siena you will see the cathedral that they had before the Black Death (if a bit tidied up over the last 500 years) but they were planning a bigger one which would have filled the square the present one is in.
May 15th, 2015, 04:07 AM
#40
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Florence is so special - bilboburgler puts it in context - spend at least a few days here and get off the main tourist drags too - a really delightful town reeking of history. And in spring it should be delightful - not too many tourists as can suffocate it in summer as can the really hot weather then - don't short Florence IMO.
