sfowler

What are "knee defenders"?

Budman

Knee Defenders:

http://www.kneedefender.com/

CafeBatavia

"What are Knee Defenders?"

Offensive toys for people who think they are superior to others and rate special treatment.

The fella in front of me has a right to recline his seat, so do I and so does the fella behind me.

tom42

I am on the side of the recliners, although I sympathize with those with long legs. There are seats that you could request that would solve your problem - bulkhead seats, emergency row seats, and, in many instances, the first row behind an emergency row (since many times, the emergency row seats do not recline).

sfowler

I'm short so I have it better than most of you, BUT it is really disgusting to have someone's dandruff flaking on you.

I have no trouble asking people to put their seats up during meal service -- in fact recently [on American I think -- maybe NW] a flight attendant actually moved someones seat up as she was walking the aisle.

On the other hand I am completelty capable of defending myself. It's amazing how far back you can pull the seat before you release it as you get up to go to the loo. It snaps back in a satisfying manner [That's along with the low level kicks and nudges on the seat back as I make myself comfortable.] And I get up OFTEN.

I also have been known to wedge my foot so that they think the recline is more limited than it is. I don't lie in wait for this -- but my timing is usually pretty good. If the airline won't give me the conditions to fly pleasantly and the other people on the plane won't act for the common good -- then it's each seat guerilla for themselves.

One other complaint is the person who thinks that the space in front of my seat is theirs also. If you're in a middle seat with long legs you either need more miles or a better TA to get you an aisle seat. [I won't fly without aisle -- mostly because I get up so much to ward off DVT.]

Ziana

I hope everyone will appreciate this:

Author: Good One
Date: 04/17/2001, 12:08 am
Message: Don't forget that if the person in front of you does NOT lean their seat back at all, you should give them a tip, too.

Likewise, if you don't lean YOUR seat back, you should expect a tip from the person behind you. Don't be shy about this - if the person behind you doesn't offer, just ask. Explain that you SPECIFICALLY did not recline your seat in order to make their experience more comfortable - in fact, more like a business class seat - and so therefore they should give you a tip. I have even used this money in the past to "finance" the rest of the tips for the pilot and stewards.

Bitter

Marty: If you are so tall, you are probably springing for a few extra dollars for tall- or long-sized clothes, so buying another seat (in front of your seat) would be consistent with an accomodation with which you are familiar. But if you are traveling for federal business, as I think a later post suggests, consider asking for an upgrade per ADA. I'm not kidding. I don't know if it will work, but you might be able to make a case that an upgrade (to 1st class) is necessary as a reasonable accomodation. I don't envy your situation, but I don't agree with your passive agressive solution and hope you can find another.

Clifton

Might I submit this, not as a criticism, but perhaps as a silly idealistic notion that grassroot efforts sometimes work.

Yes, I think it's not realistic or fair to say that someone who isn't really abnormally tall should have to buy a business class ticket at a price 2X or more what they really need - which is to get from points A to B intact. There ARE airlines (well, at least one) where there is a greater amount of seat pitch in economy. If there was a concerted effort to buy this product, without trying to squeeze 50 bucks out of ticket price, eventually you'd have competition for this product. But if you buy the ticket based on nothing but price, then what you're communicating is that price is the only consideration, and the product you get - X amount of space - will reflect that. If you're not buying based on product quality, in this case Coach seating, then you're not going to get product quality.

Budman

Clifton, what airline might that be.

CafeBatavia

I thought federal workers were allowed to use thier personal frequent flyer miles to upgrade. True?

Seems like I have talked to federal workers in business class before. Is this "No business class travel" a recent rule?

Clifton

Budman, other than on 757s and small commuters, American is the example that I was thinking of. They have from 2 to 4 more inches of room between rows (seat pitch, the point from the same spot on seats in consecutive rows). Seat pitch on most airlines is 29"-32", AA is 33"-35". On one trip, we few Aer Lingus on the way, AA (777) on the way back. No special exit rows or anything. I could put one ankle across my other knee and not press into the seat in front of me and I'm not a small guy. When they reclined, I had to put my leg down, but I still wasn't touching. Aer Lingus was a knee cruncher the whole way.

Ok, so anyway, I'm not trying to sell anyone on AA. I'd like a seat myself! They aren't the only one. Air New Zealand is one with somewhat more room too, but not as much. I'm just saying, if there are options available that provide more room in the same price range, why not give those companies your business?

Budman

Clifton, thanks. I'm going on Aer Lingus to Ireland next month. I guess I'll have to rethink whether or not to buy a set -- my wife will probably shoot me if I do.

CafeBatavia, federal workers can upgrade -- they do it all time. In fact, I had a good chuckle when a friend told me the plane was packed and they wouldn't let him upgrade on a trip from Japan to Newark -- he had to fly cattle class -- a little humility never hurt anyone.

Clifton

Well, don't worry about Aer Lingus too much. I may have just had bad luck in getting older planes. And it wasn't that unlike some other airlines I've been on. 31" seat pitch, I think. That last flight, I think they saw me coming and gave me the seat with the worn through padding.

And if nothing else, they're carting you off to one of the most beautiful places on earth. And you can top off on Murphys before you have to get on that flight home. Can't beat that!

CafeBatavia

Budman, so Marty just does not want to use his own miles to upgrade, not that he is forbidden to do so. Interesting.
I wonder if he gets to keep the miles even when the government pays for the ticket.

Budman

My friend always gets upgraded to 1st class in the States, but on overseas flights it is more difficult -- they let him keep his FF miles even though the Gov't pays for his tickets. He's too cheap to use his miles to upgrade on overseas flights -- saving up his miles for use for free travel when he retires. He has more FF miles flying for the Gov't than Carter has liver pills.

I understand Aer Lingus pulled the plug on free drinks on overseas flights. I will top off on Murphys or Guinness while my wife does her last minute shopping in the duty free store. I gotta do something.

cigalechanta

my husband is almost 6'5"but he can't always get the bulkhead seat and he ends up so cramped, beds are the same problem in Europe.

Budman

Has anybody used these things and had a problem with the airlines?

CarolA

I 'heard' that a Flight Attendant asked a passenger to remove them. I have no proof.

Of course I assume that if you use these, you WOULD not recline your seat.

I am with SFlower. My Knee works just fine in keeping your seat a little more upright. (That and the fact aht it is now pushing into your back. And no, I rarely recline and NEVER all the way back unless I am in first class or business class.)

Underhill

On my most recent flights on Southwest, virtually no one reclined the seats, bless them all. On the one before that (United) I somehow ended up in Economy Plus part of the time, and that was perfectly comfortable. For anyone with long legs the extra space would be a godsend.

hopscotch

I want to thank the person who started this discussion. I never heard of Knee Defenders but now I am going to make a $15 investment to protect my knees. My biggest fear in flying is the inconsiderate person who puts his/her seat all the way back, fast. It has been painful at times.

Stealing my space for their comfort is another issue.

Bulkhead and exit rows are not always available, and cabin crews are weak in enforcing the "physically capable" rule for those in the emergency exit rows. I'm 6'1" and have recently been crammed in when petite ladies have had the exit rows.

Whatever, next time I fly I'm going with those little knee defenders. They look like a cheap way to peace of mind.