Knee Defenders
 

Sue_xx_yy:

<< Message: I saw the inventor's website. He sounded so self-righteous and melodramatic, took himself so seriously, I burst out laughing. >>

No doubt you're 5 foot 1 inch tall.

<< Anyway, when I stopped laughing, I'd ask if he'd indicate if my normal degree of seat recline (which is maybe a third of full recline) hurts his knees. In short, negotiate. >>

As a 6 foot 2+inch frequent flyer who is restricted to Economy (government rules), I've tried everything but a revolver to the temple of the person in front of me. Useless.

I'd rather negotiate with Yassar Arafat.

After a flight to Paris which required two hours of walking to regain feeling in my legs, I bought the Knee Defenders.

If you need to lie down, get a room before you get on the plane or when you get there.

Ahh, Marty, this has been done to death. Should large people who are bigger than one seat wide, be able to encroach upon the occupied seat next to them? I would suggest not, but under your analysis if the space you rent isn't big enough for your legs, you get to impinge upon the rights of the person in front of you. Easy solution: Buy two seats (one in front and one behind).

I hope the airlines outlaw these knee offenders. Only arrogant jerks would try to impose something like that on others.

Good heavens, I almost feel honoured that you responded after all this time, that post is quite old. Although Yasser Arafat is cheesed beyond all belief - so much for his rep as a Tough Guy.

Marty, I'm not ridiculing anyone's discomfort. Good grief, I've had a DVT (Deep Vein Thrombosis) - ask me what it's like to feel discomfort when one's blood isn't flowing properly in one's leg.

I am ridiculing the hype surrounding this product, which is nothing but a ten dollar soft drink bottle (the man is a marketing genius). As do I laugh at the idea that ordering people around ("do this! do that! stay home! Get a room!") on a messageboard makes one look tough, let alone effective.

I could care less, really, about reclining. I care a great deal about people who use force on airplanes to get their own way, particularly in advance of being provoked.

Now, why don't you try writing to your airline about your problem? They generally treat their frequent flyers well, and you might be pleasantly surprised.

There is a very simple solution to this "knee defender" "problem": the airline advertises to you and sells you, generally, a seat that reclines.
Anyone who keeps that from happening is, technically, interfering with installed equipment.
If this happens to you, call on the LEAD flight attendant or the service manager or purser or whatever name your airline calls this person. Do not bother with anyone BUT this person.

When they arrive at your seat you point out the defender and demand that it be removed...loudly, if necessary...if nothing else because you fear for your safety....believe me, this strategy works.

The alternative: blabbing on and on about it on a website like this where most folks couldn't care less.

There is a general ignorance on board planes when it comes to reclining seats. Personally, l have hardly ever felt the need to recline my seat, but if l ever do, l ask the person behind me if it is ok to.

It really bugs me when people just recline their seats and you are left with having no room. The air stewards don't seem too bothered about it, and say that there's nothing they can do, but a bit of politeness, simply by asking to recline the seat,would go a long way.

For me, the problem is that the person in front of me immediately reclines his or her seat all the way back. Then, I am forced to recline, as is the person behind me, etc. On my last flight back on Air France, on the aisle across from me, a man reclined his seat. The woman behind him went BONKERS and started screaming at him to put his seat back up. He was a large, tall man, and he told the stew that he was literally in pain. Also, he said that his flight from Russia had been delayed for six hours, no sleep,etc. The stew moved him to a different seat to get him away from the lady. To my surprise, the lady then pushes HER seat as far back as it can go, slamming it into the guy behind her, and promptly falls asleep.

Bitter

<< Should large people who are bigger than one seat wide, be able to encroach upon the occupied seat next to them? I would suggest not, but under your analysis if the space you rent isn't big enough for your legs, you get to impinge upon the rights of the person in front of you. >>

Actually, under my analysis the answer is "no".

The reclining seats were designed and installed in an era when there was another 6 inches or so in front of the seat.

I paid for a seat, not your face in my mouth.

Get a room if you need a place to sleep.

CafeBatavia

<< I hope the airlines outlaw these knee offenders. Only arrogant jerks would try to impose something like that on others. >>

The same type of arrogant jerks that recline their seats into other people's knees, faces, and trays?

Singletail

<<..... the airline advertises to you and sells you, generally, a seat that reclines. Anyone who keeps that from happening is, technically, interfering with installed equipment. >>

Of course, they also advertise a seat you can sit in sans a face in your lap, deep vein thrombosis, and an idiot who feels "entitled" to inflict his nap on your person.

<< When they arrive at your seat you point out the defender and demand that it be removed...loudly, if necessary...if nothing else because you fear for your safety....believe me, this strategy works. >>

Believe me, it does not.

You'd be surprised at how many time one can get up and down - each time requesting the the LEAD flight attendant or the service manager or purser or whatever name your airline calls this person to ask the recliner move up to allow entrance and exit.

I will probably start another controvercy, but I can't keep quiet anymore !
Lufthanza's seats only recline about 10 degree angle. I tried and then just pushed back up, why to bother?
So, I never understood how was that one Fodorite while eat couldn't tell pasta parmesan from person infront of him dandruff...:)
But large people should be buying 2 seats I think (and I am large people)
unless there is a child sitting next to them who is their own. It isn't fare to take up other people's space who paid their price for whole seat, not 2/3 of it just because someone's hips are too wide.

Bitter,
Your example of a person wider than a seat is a false one. The real villian in this story are the airlines. At least in theory an overweight person could lose weight. Short of amputation, this is not the case with a tall person. An incredibly large number of Americans are over 6 ft tall. It is the airlines' apathy concerning the comfort of a large population of flyers that everyone should be directing their complaints toward. Not the few that have to resort to "knee defenders" (absent any goodwill from their fellow passengers) to protect their health.

Marty: I suppose the seats were designed back when all our collective rear-ends were, on average, smaller, too. The long and short of it is that when any of us buys a ticket, we know the ticket allows us a reclining seat with full knowledge that the seat in front also reclines. To expect something different is denial. But it is also denial or fantasy to think that people will not try to sleep on planes, particularly on overnight flights. flights. In the end, you may not like the set up (none of us does), but your beef is with the airlines, not the person in front of you.

If the airline was to take out say 10 percent of the rows of seats, to make more leg room, would you be willing to pay 10 percent more for the airfare??

Isn't that what business and first class are all about. A more expensive ticket for more space and comforts?

You pay for what you get.

If you really want room, buy an RV or a cruise ship room.

I'm flying to Ireland in May. Where do I get one of those knee defenders. ((a)) ((b))

Marty- If you're a frequent flier then surely you know to ask for an exit row. The seat pitch varies from airline to airline, one of the worst being Southwest. If you're so upset about people reclining the seat they paid for how do you feel about people in the bulkhead row putting their carry on under the seat in front of you, your space?

Bitter:

<< I suppose the seats were designed back when all our collective rear-ends were, on average, smaller, too. >>

I can only speak for myself.

<< The long and short of it is that when any of us buys a ticket, we know the ticket allows us a reclining seat with full knowledge that the seat in front also reclines. >>

You make it sound like there's a choice.

<< To expect something different is denial. >>

In short, you're entitled, because the seat reclines, to inflict damage on the person behind you.

That's the long and the short of it.

Having blocked recliners with my knees for years, I now use plastic.

Richard

<< ... If you're a frequent flier then surely you know to ask for an exit row. >>

I ask for a lot of things. Sometimes I get one of them.

Federal employees fly in economy at the government's direction.

<< If you're so upset about people reclining the seat they paid for ... >>

You write that as though implicit is "and the bed they'd like to make it into even if they crush the person behind them".

I have a right to feeling in my legs without your scalp in my face.

I agree with italyss, I must recline my seat if the person in front of me does. Once, a lady behind me asked me to please not recline my seat.
She was of average size. I told her politely that I would be happy to move it up, as long as she could ask the person in front of me to lift theirs up as well. She left in a big huff.

I just wanted to chime in. I was one of those people who used to complain when people like Marty made posts like these. However, recently I flew overseas from Washington to Vienna and it was horrible. The person behind me was tall and my seat wouldn't lean back. This is fine. I don't want to make another person uncomfortable so I can lean the seat back, much as I would have liked to. The problem came when the person in front of me put their seat back. Between her seat leaning all the way back and mine not going back at all, I could barely move, and I am not a big person.

When I fly, I try to be as polite as possible. I generally try to ask the person behind me if they would mind if I put my seat back, even a little bit. If I see someone tall with their knees hitting my seat, I won't do it because I know I wouldn't want to fly with someone else's seat in my knees. Do I think that the knee defenders are the right way to go? No. Because I honestly believe that if you pay for a seat that reclines, you should be able to recline if you want. But I think being courteous is just as important. Everyone on the flight is probably uncomfortable so you try to make the best of it and hope the plane lands in its destination early!

Oh, and Marty, I feel your pain, kind of! My dad is very tall (6'4") and struggles with the same thing every time he flies. It also gave me a new perspective.

Tracy