Knee Defenders
Oct 28th, 2003, 11:11 AM
#61
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I can't believe that spending an entire flight with the tray table in the down position would be all that comfortable either.
I wouldn't spend an entire flight with the seat full back but anyone who prevented me from reclining the seat to the limit that the airline allowed would definitely be complained about.
Oct 28th, 2003, 11:22 AM
#63
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WAIT A MINUTE!!!!! Aren't we seeing a great example of the law of fecal gravity here? Don't blame the (tall, short, thin, fat, blonde, bald or whatever) passenger in front of you for what THE AIRLINE does with their seat configuration. Example: Continental (fomerly my favorite airline) has absolutely horrible seats in coach - they look like something from the clearance rack at the dollar store, are flimsy and uncomfortable and too close together. They try to divert your attention by pointing out the "winged headrests" which do nothing to compensate for the essential nastiness of the seats. (Sort of like telling you about their "free" inflight entertaiment that you can listen to with their $5 headsets plugged into their usually poorly functioning sound system.)
Oct 28th, 2003, 11:50 AM
#65
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I think anyone who uses one of these devices is just asking for trouble. People don't take kindly to having their freedoms encrouched, even if it's just the freedom to recline.
Don't flight attendents have enough to do without getting involved with these childish games?
The logical (and therefore unlikely) solution to this problem is to increase seat pitch dramatically, say to 38". Of course, this will never happen without regulation, and we all know how well people like that.
People will compain about seat comfort until their dying day, but they'll put up with it every time if it will save them $10.
Don't flight attendents have enough to do without getting involved with these childish games?
The logical (and therefore unlikely) solution to this problem is to increase seat pitch dramatically, say to 38". Of course, this will never happen without regulation, and we all know how well people like that.
People will compain about seat comfort until their dying day, but they'll put up with it every time if it will save them $10.
Oct 28th, 2003, 12:01 PM
#66
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St. Cirq has raised an interesting topic.
Before seats are reclined there is sparse room to spare. I think that seats should be restricted as to how far they can recline. I have had several unpleasant experiences on 6/7 hour flights with someone in the first row of coach pulling all the way back. I was left with either doing the same, standing around or doing what I did. I politely asked one person to give me breathing space. It was given. On another occasion, however, I was ignored as was the stewardess. My roots are from Brooklyn--I punched the seat and stared down the creep. He reluctantly pulled up and later scampered off the plane as soon as it landed.
Moral: If you need real, horizontal sleeping space, Business or First Class is your ticket.
Before seats are reclined there is sparse room to spare. I think that seats should be restricted as to how far they can recline. I have had several unpleasant experiences on 6/7 hour flights with someone in the first row of coach pulling all the way back. I was left with either doing the same, standing around or doing what I did. I politely asked one person to give me breathing space. It was given. On another occasion, however, I was ignored as was the stewardess. My roots are from Brooklyn--I punched the seat and stared down the creep. He reluctantly pulled up and later scampered off the plane as soon as it landed.
Moral: If you need real, horizontal sleeping space, Business or First Class is your ticket.
Oct 29th, 2003, 08:29 AM
#67
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"Moral: If you need real, horizontal sleeping space, Business or First Class is your ticket."
This comment has been gnawing at me since yesterday. So I really MUST need to reply to it (self-restraint is not one of my strong points)
I would suggest that *I* do just fine in coach, even on longish flights, as long as I am allowed to move my seat back and forward as I wish and as I am permitted to by the airlines. I expect anyone else in front or behind to also be able to choose their optimum sitting posture.
The people who have a problem with my chosen seat position are the ones who should consider moving up to business or first.
And who is to judge whether something is or is not more comfortable for someone else? "Reclining your seat doesn't really make you any more comfortable," is just plain wrong in my case, since I have a previously broken eighth thorasic vertebra.
Sorry if this seems confrontational, but I don't consider myself thoughtless of my fellow passengers when I make use of the facilities provided by the airlines, including seats that recline. Perhaps if folks would recline, they'd find they miraculously HAD more leg room.
This comment has been gnawing at me since yesterday. So I really MUST need to reply to it (self-restraint is not one of my strong points)
I would suggest that *I* do just fine in coach, even on longish flights, as long as I am allowed to move my seat back and forward as I wish and as I am permitted to by the airlines. I expect anyone else in front or behind to also be able to choose their optimum sitting posture.
The people who have a problem with my chosen seat position are the ones who should consider moving up to business or first.
And who is to judge whether something is or is not more comfortable for someone else? "Reclining your seat doesn't really make you any more comfortable," is just plain wrong in my case, since I have a previously broken eighth thorasic vertebra.
Sorry if this seems confrontational, but I don't consider myself thoughtless of my fellow passengers when I make use of the facilities provided by the airlines, including seats that recline. Perhaps if folks would recline, they'd find they miraculously HAD more leg room.
Oct 29th, 2003, 08:42 AM
#68
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Marilyn, funny post about the bathroom! On CNN or BBC, I recently saw a story about the luxurious first class bathrooms on one of the airlines. Among other features, it had a window. The FAs were all laughing that people routinely close the window shade when they use the bathroom. At 35,000 feet, who could possibly be peeking in the window?
Oct 29th, 2003, 11:15 AM
#69
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Koshka, you seem like such a nice lady from your pictures on the SFO GTG site that I promise I will not pour dressing on your head as it lays in my lap. Maybe I can give your hair a quick trim? Or a nice facial herbal wrap?
You seem so ladylike that I believe you would be polite to me sitting behind you and at least rise up your seat during meals.
I do respect your theory though.
You seem so ladylike that I believe you would be polite to me sitting behind you and at least rise up your seat during meals.
I do respect your theory though.
Oct 29th, 2003, 12:20 PM
#73
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Btilke
Well, you just never know who might have stepped outside for a smoke....and a voyeuristic peek through the bathroom window....
Renee
Tell your face, "you're welcome." And may I say I think your sense of humour is infinitely more valuable than an overpriced plastic hinge. : - )
St. Cirq,
Even at 40,000 feet, airplanes and their contents are subject to the force of gravity. While we do not plummet to the earth (except in our nightmares) neither do we passengers float about, astronaut-like, through the cabin. (Talk about interfering with the personal space of others!) : - )
In a truly straight-backed chair, i.e. one that is at 90 degrees, gravity has a tendency to make the head fall forward should we shift our posture even slightly forward in the chair. While the chest provides some support for the head in that instance, the neck and shoulder muscles are likely to be doing a fair bit of work. A chair tilted back even a few degrees off the vertical means that the force of gravity now tends to pull the head back, but into the supporting cradle of the head rest. The neck and shoulder muscles need to do much less work. Just how much work is going to vary depending on a lot of things, including the proportions of the passenger relative to the chair, his age and physical condition, etc. But the point is, while it might not take a lot of recline to achieve this, it does take some, so having seats totally unable to recline from a straight-backed position would not be very comfortable. Second, the seats cannot be held fixed in this minimal recline position, since the full upright position is still recommended for adopting a safe posture for eating/drinking, and needless to say for takeoff and landing.
Well, you just never know who might have stepped outside for a smoke....and a voyeuristic peek through the bathroom window....
Renee
Tell your face, "you're welcome." And may I say I think your sense of humour is infinitely more valuable than an overpriced plastic hinge. : - )
St. Cirq,
Even at 40,000 feet, airplanes and their contents are subject to the force of gravity. While we do not plummet to the earth (except in our nightmares) neither do we passengers float about, astronaut-like, through the cabin. (Talk about interfering with the personal space of others!) : - )
In a truly straight-backed chair, i.e. one that is at 90 degrees, gravity has a tendency to make the head fall forward should we shift our posture even slightly forward in the chair. While the chest provides some support for the head in that instance, the neck and shoulder muscles are likely to be doing a fair bit of work. A chair tilted back even a few degrees off the vertical means that the force of gravity now tends to pull the head back, but into the supporting cradle of the head rest. The neck and shoulder muscles need to do much less work. Just how much work is going to vary depending on a lot of things, including the proportions of the passenger relative to the chair, his age and physical condition, etc. But the point is, while it might not take a lot of recline to achieve this, it does take some, so having seats totally unable to recline from a straight-backed position would not be very comfortable. Second, the seats cannot be held fixed in this minimal recline position, since the full upright position is still recommended for adopting a safe posture for eating/drinking, and needless to say for takeoff and landing.
Oct 29th, 2003, 12:30 PM
#74
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Thanks, Sue! ;-D
Once again, you guys have proven to be top rate when it comes to discussing these issues. While this topic got feisty, it never got ugly. I'm so proud to be a Fodorite!
Maitaitom....you definitely missed your calling....you are a riot!!
Once again, you guys have proven to be top rate when it comes to discussing these issues. While this topic got feisty, it never got ugly. I'm so proud to be a Fodorite!
Maitaitom....you definitely missed your calling....you are a riot!!
Oct 29th, 2003, 10:07 PM
#75
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Wow. I remember this topic before the invention of the knee defender.
I use all the functions of the airplane seat available to me, including "recline", "turn on TV which will stop working during the last 10 minutes of every program chosen", and "open tray table so that the stewardess can leave your finished dinner on it for an hour".
Believe it or not, I am generally also considered by those who know me to be helpful and considerate and polite. Yes, I recline, and I still consider myself a good person.
To quote a previous poster, "I don't consider myself thoughtless of my fellow passengers when I make use of the facilities provided by the airlines, including seats that recline."
Another poster wisely said, "Don't blame the . . . passenger in front of you for what THE AIRLINE does with their seat configuration."
I do not consider the space into which the seat in front of me could recline "my" space any more than I do the aisle or the space under MY seat - it belongs to the passenger in front of me whose seat is designed to recline.
While I do sympathize with people whose long legs make it uncomfortable when the person in front of them reclines their seat, and I do realize that reclining is a choice made by another passenger, I don't think it's any different from the fact that I am uncomfortable when I fly because the air in the cabin is freezing cold or boiling hot, the armrests are strategically placed to knife into me when I try to turn slightly, I end up in a seat with a bar running through the middle of the space in front of my seat so that I can put neither my belongings nor my feet there comfortably, and the headphones are made of razor blades covered with padding thick enough JUST to keep them from actually cutting my ears. It's the way the seats are designed and configured and it's the same as complaining that your light doesn't work well - annoying, but a part of flying.
I use all the functions of the airplane seat available to me, including "recline", "turn on TV which will stop working during the last 10 minutes of every program chosen", and "open tray table so that the stewardess can leave your finished dinner on it for an hour".
Believe it or not, I am generally also considered by those who know me to be helpful and considerate and polite. Yes, I recline, and I still consider myself a good person.
To quote a previous poster, "I don't consider myself thoughtless of my fellow passengers when I make use of the facilities provided by the airlines, including seats that recline."
Another poster wisely said, "Don't blame the . . . passenger in front of you for what THE AIRLINE does with their seat configuration."
I do not consider the space into which the seat in front of me could recline "my" space any more than I do the aisle or the space under MY seat - it belongs to the passenger in front of me whose seat is designed to recline.
While I do sympathize with people whose long legs make it uncomfortable when the person in front of them reclines their seat, and I do realize that reclining is a choice made by another passenger, I don't think it's any different from the fact that I am uncomfortable when I fly because the air in the cabin is freezing cold or boiling hot, the armrests are strategically placed to knife into me when I try to turn slightly, I end up in a seat with a bar running through the middle of the space in front of my seat so that I can put neither my belongings nor my feet there comfortably, and the headphones are made of razor blades covered with padding thick enough JUST to keep them from actually cutting my ears. It's the way the seats are designed and configured and it's the same as complaining that your light doesn't work well - annoying, but a part of flying.
Oct 30th, 2003, 06:17 AM
#76
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Some very good points (particularly Koshka and Andrea). I am concerned that some posters think that the airlines should be all things to all people (at no extra cost), and that the rest of us should forego our minimal airline privileges so a few passengers won't be inconvenienced. In short, when you buy a ticket you are renting a small seat that reclines. You know exactly what you are getting, and you know the person in front of you rented the same type of seat and expects to use its relatively few accouterments, i.e. the recline button. Call me crazy, but I also expect to be able to use the airplane bathroom, even though it might cause you some inconvenience when you let me out to the aisle. If your size (height, width) does not allow you to fit in the seat (relatively) comfortably, you will need to buy another seat (perhaps the one next to you or the one in front of you), or upgrade to first class. Is this fair, no and neither is life. [Speaking of fairness, airlines may be the only entity in this world that arguably caters to shorter people.] But couldn't the planes have some seats to accomodate larger or taller persons? Yes. And they do. It is called first class. Shouldn't it be provided at the same price as coach? If the airlines provided such seats, everyone would want them whether the really "needed" them or not. In an informal survey on this board, many people admitted ordering the special meals on planes, not b/c of religious or strict dietary reasons, but b/c they perceived the meals as being better than the regular meals. To be all things to all people prices would need to increase. I'd rather that those who want or need special care pay for it (which is how it works when we are on the ground).
