tdyls

The weak dollar is irrelevant. It only magnifies the problem of Italy being inherently expensive by 150%. Like I said, the euro could be worth $0.01 and the prices in Italy would still be comparatively expensive. Compare the price of espresso in Italy (about €1.00) to the same thing in Portugal (about €0.55). Do not multiply those numbers by the dollar-to-euro exchange rate, do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or €133 ;-) ).

MaureenB

It's a drag that the dollar is weak, but it still seems you can get lodging in Europe so much less expensive than in the U.S. You said "average cost $105 a night for 2 people for nice apartments in good locations".

That sounds pretty good to us, since we drove across the U.S. this summer, and paid $129- $169/night for the cheap motels we stopped in along the way.
>-

tcreath

To me the problem with the expense of going to Europe isn't with the lodging, it's with everything else. With the exception of central/eastern Europe (where hotels seem to be more expensive), hotel prices can be fairly low, especially outside of the bigger cities and tourist areas. We generally book apartments to help offset some of the price. But it's the food prices, transportation (mainly to/from the airport), sightseeing, etc. that all adds up to an expensive trip in the end.

After three trips to Rome I've come to the conclusion that the food is expensive and usually mediocre unless you spend lots of money or happen to stumble into a great affordable trattoria. Not to say that the food in Rome is bad, just that we've had many not so great experiences. We love Rome and just being there makes anything taste better, but it's hard not to think about what you are spending.

For those who compare Rome (or any other city in Europe) to NYC, I do agree that NYC too is expensive. I haven't been in several years. To be honest I have very little desire to go back, but even if I wanted to the prices for a decent hotel in a great location are expensive. My husband and I tend to do more budget travel, mainly because we love to get out and explore so we don't spend a lot of time in our room with the exception of sleeping, so I hate spending $150- $200 on a hotel room.

Tracy

Jean

Mediocre food in Rome unless you spend lots of money? Wow. We've spent a total of nearly a month in Rome over the years, and I can only remember a few meals I'd describe as mediocre, usually lunch when we haven't put much effort into choosing a place. We're not foodies -- I say we "eat" rather than "dine" -- but we've had wonderful meals at what I consider to be very reasonable prices.

tcreath

Jean, to each their own but after three trips to Rome we have only had a few really good meals. I guess it's just the luck of the draw. I'm absolutely not a foodie (probably the opposite) but this was my experience. I love Italian food, and have had great luck outside of Rome, but just have not had great experiences with my food choices in Rome with a few exceptions. And before anyone asks, yes we steer clear of the touristy areas and try to seek out places frequented by more locals.

Tracy

Jake1

logos--glad I don't go to New Jersey for pizza and beer!!! $30, Wow! Wife and I pay about $20 for a good pizza (not chain stuff) with beer or wine here in central Maryland. We'd pay less except we get a large pizza and take the leftovers for lunch at work the next day. So 2 meals for 2 people.

logos999

The closer you get to New York City, the crazier it gets. They don't know or respect any limits. However, the owner was from Italy and the pizza was quite good. Chinese places were quite o.k. in the US too. Not great, but whithout the "strage" taste of a Dennys or Shoneys. (What the heck do they use to prepare their food. It looks like food, but tastes so repulsive?)

After a few days, when I watched the TV commercials (esp. the one with the family guy cartoon in it), I was close to vomitting, it just looked so awful.

Jake1

Well, at least it was a good pizza!

longboatkey

Actually Rome/Venice is like saying NYC/LA.

We rent a very comfortable house in The Abruzzo every September-October. The prices in the region are of course more than the prices of 3 years ago, but still, the people, food, wine and the wealth of history in the region make it all WELL, WELL worth it. Planning to return this year!

Christina

Why do you all keep talking about Denney's anyway. This isn't a very common place in the US, I haven't even seen one in a couple decades, and haven't eaten in one for the same time. Even then, it was just a cheap diner where you might stop for lunch on a road trip, not where people who go out for dinner (and they weren't in cities, either). I haven't seen one since I lived in California that long ago, and didn't even know they existed anywhere else. I've never seen one where I live now in Maryland, nor between here and Ohio, where I visit relatives. I've never heard of Shoney's, either.

How about comparing that dinner to Olive Garden, that would make more sense, and I think those are more common.

now maybe a Cracker Barrel -- yum

logos999

The best buffet I've ever had was in Las Vegas. That was sooo great and not expensive!, but then there's the desert. You just wish you'd be back there every day of you trip for dinner only...

TexasAggie

Hi Tracy (tcreath),

Hope you and DH are well and had good holidays
They were a bit of a whirlwind for us... we had "The 12 Days of Relatives" at our house ;-)
When you get a free minute, would you please email me at herodotus02 (@yahoo.com)? I broke it up to avoid getting a slot of spam but there are no spaces.

Thanks!
jill

tcreath

Hey Jill!

I'm going to send you an e-mail now! My e-mail address starts with "bella_roma78".

Tracy

julies

Wait a minute here. I did not criticize either Rome or Venice or Italy. I just said that the weak dollar makes things in western Europe much more expensive, and the lower the dollar sinks the more expensive visiting Europe becomes. The whole comparative costs of restaurants in various cities is irrelevant.

I could have visited Rome 1 1/2 years ago, and it would have cost me 17% less solely due to currency exchange ratios. Or, I could have visited 6 years ago when the dollar was at its peak against the euro. For the sake of comparison, assume prices for things were exactly the same six years ago as now. Using this comparison basis, prices and trip costs today for an American are 84% higher.

Perhaps some of you don't understand what I am commenting on when I do the math and I say that a meal that is E24 will cost an American $36 because every price in euros has to be multiplied by 1.5. This is a significant increase. So, when I visited Europe in July 06 and the exchange rate was 1E = $1.26, that same meal would have cost me $30 rather than the $36 it cost me now. Thus, everything related to the trip that was quoted in euros now costs 17% more than it did then.

We went to Turkey in May 07, and the euro was trading at 1E for $1.36. Now 1E is closer to $1.47. This is what I am referring to when I talk about how expensive things have become. When one starts to look at all trip expenses and keeps seeing the steady percentage of cost increases, European travel starts to look quite pricey to an American who can see how lttle the dollar buys compared to not too long ago.

And, I have also visited a number of other pricey Euroepan capital cities in the past. I do not remember having the same impression that costs were runaway. This is because I could get more for my dollar then.

mlgb

Even in the mid 1980's, eating at a restaurant in Rome was expensive.

Probably the most expensive city for dining out that I've ever visited. And I've been to Paris, London, NY, and live in LA.

So julie's warning might be useful.

I don't have any urge to visit Europe again, even with free lodging.

markrosy

Does an increase of 17% really prevent travellers from travelling - I very much doubt it. I think the whole exchange rate issue is an excuse for the chattering classes to moan.

svicious22

I agree with the original poster; I don't plan on going back to Europe until the dollar strengthens either. We like to stay at 3-4 star hotels and eat at mid-level restaurants, and most of Europe (at least of personal interest) is just too expensive to bother with anymore unless you go off season. Even then, although you will get there and stay there cheaper, it is just as much to eat and drink, visit museums, etc.

I have also been unimpressed by the so-called affordability of Central and Eastern Europe-while it IS cheaper than France & Italy (for 2 examples) and there are bargains, in my experience the bargains must be actively sought out.

I personally hate penny pinching and will not do so just to get to Europe, not when I can stay in luxury or near luxury for less money by staying in the U.S.

jacketwatch

Markrosy: Just let the OP have his say w/o sounding like Louis Winthorpe, at least B4 he met Billy Ray Valentine. Get a life. .

longboatkey

If you seek lavish service, over-indulgence, and faux frescos etc. I certainly agree that a sstay in a U.S.

longboatkey

If you seek lavish service, over-indulgence, food as whimsy art, and faux frescos etc. I certainly agree that a stay in a U.S. "Ritz Carlton type" destination is right for you. However, the experience of living/visiting, feeling a different culture, speaking a second language, exploring the culture and history of foods and wines, is just a "wee bit" different, regardless of bump up in the currency exchange rate!