natasha

In support of David's story I will tell one similar experience. My Mom, sister and I went into a store in Sorrento Italy. The lady that owned the store right of the bat said to us "I don't like you Americans you are so difficult". We told her we were Canadians (which we are) and she was so friendly and instantly liked us so much and talked and talked and told us we were always welcome in her store. We were the exact same people we were when we walked into the store though.<BR><BR>Before anyone asks, honestly there was no previous exchange before the I don't like Americans part. The store was open, we didn't go in and pick up breakable things, etc. <BR> <BR>BTW I think depending on our hair styles, clothing, shoes, style of glasses the brand of guide book, accent when we speak english, etc. we are given away as North Americans (and everyone will assume you are American).<BR><BR>I think sometimes you will get good treatment because someone favours Americans and sometimes poor treatment because someone has had a bad experience with one American or has a grudge or something.

Pam

Nothing like this episode would bother me if it happened to me because I have a superiority complex and other people can't penetrate it. If someone doesn't like Americans, I think something is wrong with THEM, not me. I am polite and you would never know that I have this complex but I do.

Pris

A friend and I were sitting and reading on train opposite a young British man. Now and then, the friend and I made a brief comment to each other about something ("Are you hungry?" "What time is it?"), not particularly loudly and not for any length of time. But shortly after about the 3rd or 4th such exchange, the young man said: "You're American, aren't you? I don't like American women."<BR><BR>We were stupid enough to ask why not and got a litany of stereotypes with a dash of misogyny thrown in "you are pushy, loud, bossy," etc. etc.<BR><BR>It was extremely difficult not to assume thereafter that all British men felt the same way, especially when their lips got tight the moment one of us might begin a question with, "excuse me, sir, I wonder if....." <BR><BR>This is how these impressions get started and built upon.

x

Melissa, let me spell this out for you. "Ignorant" does not mean stupid of racist. It means having a lack of knowledge or education. Here's its use in a sentence: "Melissa was ignorant of the correct meaning of the word 'ignorant'".<BR><BR>Seems everyone today uses it as a synonym for racist.<BR><BR>Sorry about mispelling your name before.

Mora

Pris, don't even worry about British men and their tight lips. All the British have tight lips, they choke back all their words and sounds so they can't come out of their mouths. The higher the class the tighter the lips.<BR>Watch closly next time and have a good laugh.

ig

ignoble perhaps?

Must speak

I must answer you, x. Ignorant is not used as a synonymm for racist. The reason people are racist is because they are ignorant of the mores of the other culture. If we knew and understood different cultures, we would be more accepting of them. Capiche?

Loni

Not really, we can know all about the mores of a people and still not like them or look down on them. Ignorance is not always the base of racism.

dis

Sorry, must speak, must disagree. Israelis and Palestinians understand each other's cultures very well, and they don't exactly love each other.

Faith

It is the idealistic theme: if only we knew each other's ideals better we would all get along. Sometimes knowing each other's ideals are what breaks us apart. I know of a few country's mores that I dislike or hate.

Linda

I must confirm David's account of what happened to us in Lugano. We are all over 50, professional people who work with the public constantly, and know how to behave. In the group of five that was an accounting executive for a large firm, a public utilities manager whose job it is to always be politically correct, a high school calculus teacher, a homemaker, and a retired bank executive. We did absolutely nothing to bring of this response.

Linda

I have been trying to clear up a few things about this incident for two days and the messages never posted. Perhaps they were too long so I will break this up.<BR>First, I feel somewhat responsible for this, since I was the one who suggested we to to Lugano, Switzerland. We did realize that it was not in Italy. We did notice that Italy was across the river and that there were more Italian being spoken than other languages. <BR>We arrived in Lugano about noon and took two taxis to our hotel. The two couples went down to the receptionist at the hotel and asked how to get to "old town." She said that there was a bus stop about a half block up and to take the number one bus to a certain stop in order to go to the tourist center. We made this trip with out any trouble and the tourist information representative was very helpful and provided several suggestions for dinner. We walked around in the rain and checked out the shops and restuarants. David's wife and I stayed in an outdoor cafe and had a coke and a snack while the men took the number one bus back to the hotel to pick up David's mother.

Linda

Part 3:<BR>The men took the bus and the driver stopped at the end of his route. He told our husbands that this was his five minute break. They asked if they should remain on the bus or get off. He was a very friendly Swiss gentleman who told them to stay on the bus and that their stop was just two stops away. Never once did he say that there was any problem with them staying on the bus or that they could have gotten off at an earlier stop that also would have been near our hotel. This was not a bus station but a bus stop. The driver continued the run and let them off at the original stop. The entire route is maybe 20 minutes. They picked up David's mother and once again took the number one bus to the plaza.

Linda

Part 4:<BR>After dinner, we walked back to the bus stop and waited for the number one bus. As we got on the bus, my husband asked the driver if he would let us know when we got to the bus stop near the Holiday Inn Hotel. We do not have a mass transit system in our community, it was dark and rainy and we were in an unfamiliar city. The bus driver drove about 8 minutes to the "end of the route" for his 5 minute wait. He had checked our tickets when we got on the bus. He told us we would have to get off and pay another 8 franks to go two more stops. We asked why the other driver had not mentioned this and would it be possible for us to get off and wait in the bus stop so he could have his break. This was even though there were others on the bus that he did not tell to get off. At this point he tore my husband's tickets in half and ordered us off of the bus. He then tore David's tickets up and stomped on them. He told us we couldn't get back on "his" bus even if we bought tickets.

Linda

Part 5.<BR>At this point we were left to walk down dark, wet, unfamiliar, steep streets to get back to our hotel. I should mention that I had put off double knee replacement surgery to make this trip, David's wife suffers from a serious ankle injury, and David's mother has major leg problems. If anyone of us had fallen, it could have meant an end to our trip. When we got back to our hotel, the receptionist said that the driver was completely wrong. The next morning she called the bus company to complain and explained what had happened. The bus company representative said that the bus driver was completely in the wrong and that she would speak to him and call us back with some kind of remedy. She never called back. <BR>Let me make this very clear. We had not been drinking, we were not loud, we talked among ourselves but only about dinner, plans for the next day, etc. We were not "ugly Americans."

Sympathetic

It is so agravating when something like that happens...but the guy sounds like a nut. He was probably angry about something else that happened earlier in the day...that had nothing to do with you...to stomp on your tickets doesn't sound quite normal to me. Hope the rest of your trip made up for this.

elsie

Well, who knows Linda, you just got a bad one. It happens everywhere. Part of travel is to roll with the punches and not whine about it.

Linda

Part 6:<BR>As far as the taxi incident was concerned, let me try to explain what happened. We were in front of a hotel and a taxi pulled up and let a passenger off. David's mother was in too much pain to walk the rest of the way to the hotel or bus stop. David asked the taxi driver if he would take them to the Holiday Inn. The taxi driver said "I do not let Americans ride in my taxi, you'll have to go back to the plaza and maybe one of them will take you." How did he know David was an American? After 54 years in Texas, there is no mistaking his accent with English, Canadian, or Austrian! David did walk all the way back, secure a cap, and come back and pick up his mother. The other three of us would have dropped dead before we took a bus or a taxi. We walked all the way back. <BR>We started our trip in Germany, then went to Austria, and then to Switzerland. We had no real trouble until we got to Switzerland. In Munich, a young couple walked by us and said F------ Americans, and we just pretended we did not hear it.

RON J

I couldn't let this topic go without a response. I do not question Davids account of what happened as it may be totally accurate. However, many posts on this thread and others complaining bout their treatment as tourists is probably a reflection of the way we act as tourists.<BR><BR>During our first trip to Europe 11/2 years ago covering 9 weeks we were treated with great courtesy and consideration wherever we went. An elderly man in Strasbourg walked 9 blocks out of his way to help us find our hotel, a pharmacy clerk in Locarno walked with us to a dental office to help my wife get emergency dental care. Just a couple of examples. I doubt if the European tourist gets superior service in any of our cities.<BR><BR>Upon return, I determined to better job of providing service to the students at the international university near my retail business as I now know how difficult it is to not speak the language.<BR><BR>Ron

Linda

Part 7:<BR>Everywhere we went the first thing anyone said to us was how much they hated George Bush. We smiled but never replied. We were told that all Americans are racist, they expounded on the death penalty, and even told us that we had overreacted to the September 11 attacks. They said we should just "get over it." One young man even said that it ruined the movie Spiderman because they edited out the part where the twin towers were shown. To that I did have to reply that in the United States September 11 is still very painful for us and that it is difficult to forget the thousands of lives lost and the tens of thousands of lives effected by the attacks. <BR>To conclude: We had prepared well for this trip. We had train schedules, hotel reservations, sights we wanted to see, and went with every intention of having a great time. We did have a great 12 out of 14 days. We saw many beautiful places. The only real problems we had were in Switzerland. This seems strange since all we heard there and in Germany and Austria was how much their economy was hurting because of the lack of American tourist. <BR>We will plan more trips and we will go back to Europe - just not Switzerland. If they hate us this much, then I will spend my hard earned money elsewhere. There are many beautiful countries still to visit and this experience will not keep us from going, but it did open our eyes to how we are regarded.