yes. I�ve stayed there with teenagers and found it a lively area for them to explore, especially in the evening. We stayed at a holiday apartment.

In Venice, I like the areas around the Accademia Bridge (either side). Easy walk to St Marks, but away from tourist central.
In Rome, near the Pantheon will be central to what you're doing, or Trastevere. I also like the area N/NE of Trevi

This may be a silly question, but I'm assuming the bullet train also goes Rome-Venice (we'd likely start in Rome to make the arriving flight easier).

When in Venice be sure to go at least one night to hear the orchestras play in St. Mark's Square. Several different orchestras play and "compete" to get attention from the passersby. You don't have to pay but can just walk around the beautiful square enjoying it lit at night and hearing beautiful music. We enjoyed it so much, we went several times.

If you wish to start in Rome, does that mean you are cutting Naples/Pompeii idea?
If the plan is Rome and Venice, great! You could even make an easy, quick stop for a night (or two) somewhere along the route, Florence, Bologna? I would not suggest this if it were not so super easy. You could even stop, stash luggage at the train station, spend a few hours in Florence (or Bologna) and still be in Venice by evening, if you want to.

If you are still thinking Naples, try to fly into Naples if possible. It is also one of the easiest airports to get to and to navigate if it is feasible.

Curious, why are arriving flights to Rome easier than to Venice for you? No stops, cheaper? I have not flown into Rome in several years. I do love arriving in Venice by train though, just to step out and see the Grand Canal. Hope I haven�t repeated myself.

In Venice, I really like the Dorsoduro area. It is quiet, has lots of restaurants, convenient vaporetto stops, hotels, gelato shops, etc.

About gondola rides. Touristy? Yes. Expensive? Yes. Even a bit cheesy? Yes. Still, we laugh and cheerfully hand over the money (almost) every time we are in Venice. In the back canals, away from the crowds, I find it terribly romantic. When I took teens once, they were so quiet, I was not sure if they were enjoying it. Then, one whispered, � I am coming here on my honeymoon.�

Yes, I think that's the plan, b/c....

We'd be coming from Chicago Ohare and it would almost double the stops and price. (disclaimer, since dates are locked in stone yet, I can't be 100% certain)
Additionally,, when I talked with my family, Pompeii would be amazing, but my middle son did an entire semester's art project on the Last Supper and really doesn't want to miss that (even if other people say it's no big deal).
So, I think the priority would be Rome - Venice - Milan (en route to Paris).

You like this area in terms of where to stay?

Yes! However, it depends also on finding a hotel. There were several that looked great in other areas that people recommended a few months ago, have to find the posts about them.

Got it.

Any ideas on the best plan to stop in Milan en route to Venice? I'm assuming we should just stay one night in Milan to make life easier; correct?
And most likely even fly to Paris?

I have what may be a unique viewpoint regarding your planning. Almost 60 years ago, through luck and knowledge of American History, I won a "Grand Tour" of Europe. The tour was one of those "If it's Tuesday it Must be Belgium" group tours. Anything I remember from it will be what stuck in my mind as a teenager and so may be relevant to your teens.

London: The Tower of London, with Beefeaters, ravens, the building itself and absolutely the Crown Jewels. Westminster Abbey, including famous graves. Although I have been back to London other times, I never went back to these two, so my memories of times for those places has not been corrupted.

Paris: I have been back too many times for me to know a memory is from that trip, except for the evening Seine cruise and my discovery of just what steak tartare was. I was not impressed with either.

Venice: This was before mass tourism and rising waters. I remember St. Marks Cathedral, the square, the Doge's Palace, the bridge of Sighs (where I whistled "Don't Fence Me In" while crossing, and a tower from which I had a panoramic view of the city. I also remember a demonstration of blowing Venetian glass, a swim at the Lido beach, olfactory proof that the canals were also sewers, and wandering by a group of kids playing soccer and also the Communist Party headquarters of the city. I have never been back to Venice, feeling that the modern changes would ruin my image of the city. I would strongly urge you to take your kids, however, since by the time they are adults the city will have been inundated by rising sea levels.

Rome: I don't remember much of the guided tour besides the Vatican, but I had one day to wander on my own. In those days the Colosseum, Palatine Hill, and the Forum were not fenced and entrance ticketed. I toured them on my own with a guide book, finding the places from my course in ancient history.

Pompeii: It was a guided day trip from Rome that I chose instead of the Blue Grotto. Pompeii was amazing. Note that several of the murals and mosaics that I remember from that day are now in the Archeological Museum in Naples, which I visited in my relatively recent only other visit to Italy.

A recommendation concerning London: If you have to skip the Normandy beaches, you might fill your kids' desire for WWII touring by seeing the Churchill War Rooms. Also, next to the V&A is the Science Museum which youngsters of all ages will find fascinating.

We were in London last week, and the Packers fans were everywhere. I'm sure there were plenty of Giants fans around as well, but we didn't see nearly as much team swag. We had tickets to the Cubs/Cardinals game that was supposed to be in 2020 but was ultimately cancelled.

How difficult were these tickets to get?

I bought them in late 2019, so a little fuzzy. I don't remember it being exceptionally difficult, but I do recall getting up in the middle of the night to be ready when they first went on sale (10 am UK time, or something like that).

Rome-Venice: 4 hours on the fast train
Rome-Milan: 3 hours
Venice-Milan: 2.5 hours

You could leave early and store luggage in Milan station, spend a 1/2 day seeing The Last Supper, and continue on if that's your only goal for Milan

However, since our next stop is Paris, we'd probably need to stay a night in Milan (or elsewhere), correct? Unless we just flew to Paris from Milan?

"Unless we just flew to Paris from Milan?"

Which is what I would do. Its a quick flight. Maybe 90 minutes. A lot better on a rushed itinerary than just 'eating' a night somewhere. I'd spend the day in Milan and take an early evening flight.

FYI: You may want to book tickets to see The Last Supper way in advance. Once you know your likely date in Milan, be sure to check when to book your tickets. https://cenacolovinciano.org/en/visit/#reserve is the official site. You can also purchase tickets through other tour operators, but they will likely be more expensive. Here is another explanation about how to buy tickets: https://www.european-traveler.com/it...vinci-in-milan.

Green Bay was the last NFL team to play in London. For years we had said “if they ever go, we’ll go.”
So even though we had been over in May, we planned another visit as soon as the date was announced.

So I 100% understand OP desire to see his Cubs⚾️!
Game tickets were too pricey, but we had so much fun watching in a sports pub that the loss didn’t crush us.

Hi everyone,

Thanks to your help, it looks like we've identified a couple of "sticking" points that could swing the shape of the trip (these are questions we're asking ourselves):
Translation: These are things we're still considering as a family in order to simplify things and I wanted to provide an update to those that have been helpful in their responses thus far. I know that you cannot answer these and that's not my intent.

1) Do we visit Milan after Venice on our way to France? My son really wants to see The Last Supper, but we're realizing how much just this one stop complicates things.
2) Are MSM and some Normandy sites a "must?" This is something we're struggling with due to transit time
3) In Rome, do we need to see the Vatican? Or can we skip it? This question is still up for debate in our household.

If they are "musts" to you, then they are musts. Your wife wants to see MSM. Include it. Vatican Museum or St. Peter's? Vatican Museums includes Sistine Chapel. St. Peter's only does not. If seeing both are "musts" for your family, they should be considered. I mean...that's all there is to it.

As far as MY recommendation, yes, they would be "musts" for me (Vatican and St. Peters). MSM, imho, is a waste of MY time but Normandy would not be. But, if I had a family member who really wanted to see something, I would make every effort to include it.

I feel like a broken record, here...