SanaG

Hello all!
I hope you can help. My husband and I are British aid workers, currently based in Pakistan. We go back to England once or twice a year, but would like to take our son (7) to Europe this year. We plan to travel towards the end of June (dates flexible), take in a week to 10 days in Europe and head to England after that. We would like to go to Frankfurt, Paris, Verona and Venice (couple of nights each) to see friends. Barcelona might be an add on. My husband and I have been to these cities before, so its really to enjoy it with our little boy (who is very excited!) and take in some major sites.
I have gone through many websites and since I need to be economical, I am totally confused about the itinerary and trying to make this work out.
Any help would be appreciated. We are willing to fly from Islamabad to Frankfurt, Paris or Barcelona (whichever is cheaper) and travel by train across Europe. Germany and France would have been fine but Italy is causing me some trouble. Any suggestions for economical itineraries , useful websites etc would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
Sana

travelingaunta

Hi Sana - I would just caution you against trying to see 4 or 5 cities in 7-10 days especially when they are so far apart. And it would be hard to back track east to Italy if you fly to Paris first. If I were you, I would choose my top two cities to see, and then investigate whether it's better to take the train or fly between those two cities. Or maybe even spend the entire time in Paris with day trips to surrounding areas.

This website has great info about taking the train - http://www.seat61.com/

sandralist

It is really hard to help you with logtistics, partly because you don't say if you need to spend nights in either Verona or Venice (you can stay in either and day trip to the other) but also because the devil is in the details when it comes to cheap flights vs. overnight trains (do you want any overnight trains?) I am not sure you are going to save anything by taking trains, but maybe there is a family pass?

For anybody it is tedious to find out if there is a cheap flight between Frankfurt and Barcelona or one between Barclelona and Verona (or Milan or Venice, which would work).

When I have had to do things like this for myself, I usually look online at airport websites to see what airlines are flying in and out and to where. Sometimes I go to FlyerTalk forums because people over there fly a LOT and sometimes know all this stuff in their heads.

If you book Italian train tix in advance you can often get good family discounts, so it becomes possible to use Milan or Bologna as airport (but again, devil is in the details when it comes to pricing and making connections).

I hear you that this is about seeing friends and some treats for your boy who won't object to not doing Venice "justice".

Be aware that Verona has a big opera festival and Venice is always crowded so you might want to stay in Padova for reasons of economy.

Good luck!

dfourh

In planning an itinerary like this I think the best thing to do is to block your days out on a sheet of paper and make boxes for each day; in each box first put at the bottom of the box where you will spend the night; then plot in your transits between cities (which can eat up an entire day, or might give you half a day of actual time in a place).

Venice-Verona is not much travel at all by train, but transit from Frankfurt and Paris might consume an entire day. I like to look at www.skyscanner.net to plot out best one-way fares and travel times, picking nonstop flights that leave around noon and get in around 2pm, when possible, so that you can get to the airport comfortably, and get in early enough to still enjoy something at the destination.

Trains between Italy/Frankfurt/Paris would be a massive time investment, and probably cost more.

sandralist

PS: I see there is one flight per week from Islamabad to Milan (Fridays). From Milan it is not hard to go by train to Verona and Venice (which has trains to Paris or flights to Paris, Barcelona or Frankfurt. But is some other way cheaper? I don't know.

SanaG

Dear all,
Thank you for you kind advice.
Travelingaunta, I hear you. I personally have my reservations about visiting Italy this time. The logistics are complicated. But as Sandralist says, there is indeed a flight from Islamabad to Milan which might be worth considering.
Sandralit, we plan on staying in Verona and doing a day trip to Venice. I will be mindful of the opera festival dates. I will look at flights from verona to frankfurt.
and dfourh, I will defintely be getting some paper out!

Right now, the itinerary is looking like this....
Fly to Milan from Islamabad, train to Verona, day trip to venice(2-3 nights in Verona), back to Verona, fly to frankfurt, two nights there, train to Paris, two nights and then on to England via train.

do let me know if this looks feasible at a glance. Your advice has really helped me think clearly. I have never planned such a trip before so its challenging!

one last question. What is your opinion on rail passes? According to what I have read, if one decides to go this route, high speed trains require reservations anyway. Is this costly?

many thanks again to you all!

janisj

For as few trains as you are taking - no pass makes sense.

In your planning/decision making - remember that 2 nights in a place nets just over one full day. So for instance that 2 nights in Paris will only give you 1.5 days free to see/do anything.

sandralist

Rail pass wouldn't save you money. This thread might have some pointers for you.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...urt_Hesse.html

If you run into difficulty finding family accommodations in Verona that you like then check out staying in Peschiera del Garda. It's about 20 minutes on the train from Verona with loads of family accommodations within walking distance of the train station.

SanaG

Dear all,
Thank you for all your help! Trip is planned! We are flying in to Milan, on to Verona and Venice,flying from Venice ( cant beat a €16 ticket) to Frankfurt and then onwards!

thank you all for your tips, they have helped guide the process!!

I have benn looking at the airbnb website for accomodation... any thoughts or experiences.??


Sana

sandralist

I know many people who have had happy experiences with airbnb but you should probably start a separate thread asking specifically about airbnb in the cities you are staying. In Italy there is no problem with people renting out their space but I don't know about the law in Frankfurt. In some European cities (like Paris) some people are skirting the law offering their space for short term rent and you run the risk of booking an apartment and then suddenly having it yanked.

But you should ask about Venice and Verona too. Maybe somebody has had some direct experience worth knowing about.

PalenQ

Any suggestions for economical itineraries , useful websites etc would be greatly appreciated!>

For trains and info on railpasses, which reading your hit list I would not dismiss out of hand - check out these IMO superb informative sites - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. For train schedules I always use www.bahn.de/en - the German railways web site with schedules of trains all over Europe.

As to a pass if you want flexibility to chose which trains to take once there and in many countries just be able to hop on any train anytime a railpass may be a boon and if over 25 such passes are first class and IME of decades of incessant European rail travel first class has definite benefits over second class. Discounted tickets are sold in limited numbers so mus be booked in stone weeks or months in advance and the usually cannot be changed nor refunded - full flexible full fare tickets cost a ton and thus if wishing first-class travel and flexibility only a handful of longer train trips could make the pass a great deal.
Fodor's mantra is railpasses are never a good deal but I think that is a bunch of nonsense as there are many variables as to the efficacy of a pass - first class or 2nd and flexibility to hop any train anytime in many countries (France, Spain and Italy do require nominal seat reservation fees for pass holders but you still can chose which trains to take once there.