marvelousmouse

How far in advance did you book? Normally I would say the round trip is crazy talk but OAK-Barcelona at that price is a Christmas miracle, so way to go

I'd save the castle for another time. Where else have you been in Germany? There are so many great Christmas markets; I'd either add to Salzburg or do a few nights somewhere in Germany. Not sure what to recommend that would work with your itinerary. Regensburg was pretty sweet. I stayed on the river and that was very fairytale like.

I don't know. I don't think it's crazy but I feel like dec 21-23 sounds like something that looks plausible on paper but is not fun in reality. I do that sort of thing in my own planning, like 6 months out, and then look at it nearer departure time and wonder what I was thinking.

neckervd

Dec 19th/20th:
I understand that you don't want to visit the real gems of Vienna, as you have been there already. But may be your girls would be interested in.

Dec 22th:
If you take a "early train to Fuessen", may be Salzburg dp 8.00, you will arrive at Fuessen before noon. What will you do until 15.45?
after the visit of the castle, it will be dark. You will most probably leave the caastle by bus at 17.25 and arrive at Fuessen at 17.35. The next Kempten bound bus will leave Fuessen at 18.15 and arrive at Kempten at 19.40.
Better solution: go by taxi from the castle to Ulrichsbruecke-Fuessen railway station in order to catch the 17.17 train to Kempten ar 18.28.
Connecting trains to Zurich: Kempten dp 18.47 or Saturday morning 8.28. Change at Lindau im Bodensee.

Dec 25th/26th:
There will be almost no sun at Lauterbrunnen in the second half of December.

PalenQ

Forget Reutte - thought you were going Salzburg-Innsbruck-Reutte-bus to Fussen but yes via Munich is quicker probably and you can use the bargain Bavarian Pass the whole way even from Salzburg:

You must take regional trains Salzburg-Munich and they take a bit longer but only regional trains go Munich-Fussen so you could save a ton with that pass bought in Salzburg train station.

https://www.bahn.com/en/view/offers/...-tickets.shtml

Fussen-bus to Kempten makes sense.

surfmom

Ok, I know this feels like you are being piled on, but you are doing a lot here.

I have traveled pretty extensively with kids of all ages and sometimes simplicity is better.

Assume every time you move, you will lose AT LEAST half a day. Sometimes even more than that. So try to consolidate your "moving".

I would consider:

- fly from BCN to Vienna on the same day. Even if you are booking on different flights, leave a nice cushion of 4-ish hours (or more). The day you arrive in BCN is shot and all you are doing is heading back to the airport the next day. If you absolutely cannot change those, then I would book rooms at the airport and arrange to do something from there - are there any places to visit that you could get a driver for a few hours as an excursion?

- eliminate the trip to Neushwanstein. You are doing a ton of traveling to do this. It is 'good' ... but in the middle of winter???? It involved a ton of being outside and are your kids going to want to schlepp around outside in the woods in the middle of winter (and most likely dark by the time you leave). I know you have reservations there, but I also know you can email them and cancel the ticket and you aren't out any cash. Consider adding extra time in Salzburg instead. (And we just did it this summer...)


When I say that you will use at least a half a day for each time you move, you are even more complex with a sibling and grandparents, etc. It won't be fun to mobilize everyone. Don't be afraid to have some down time and find playgrounds and indoor swimming pools...

ToujoursVoyager

Salzburg has a lot to offer: the puppet show was fun; Mozart's house was interesting (but I liked the little museum in St Gilgen better); you can do a hose carriage ride with blankets sipping hot chocolate. I would really recommend staying in the pedestrian portion of Salzburg not too far away from the river. We stayed in the Altstadthotel Weisse Taube hotel and I found the location excellent.

If you decide to skip Fussen, you will find plenty to do in Salzburg.

I have been to the Bernese Oberland area in Switzerland many times but always in the summer and so I hesitate to recommend anything. Since I am enthusiastic skier, I would probably put the kids at least one day in ski school even if the adults do not ski. I know that Mürren has a great indoor pool that we used before. There is probably one closer to you in Lauterbrunnen. I watched a Rick Steves documentary spending Christmas in Gimmelwald tobogganing from Mürren. It looks like a lot f fun.

PalenQ

Well if not into skiing or doing the excellent suggestion of Tvoyageur about kids ski school then I'd cut a day or two here and put in Salzburg and perhaps one in Lake Geneva area.

Sue81

After many trips to Europe from the US, I've discovered that packing less travel days into a set period of time, results in a nicer, less fatiguing trip. It also allows you to relax and see the local scene, people/dining/museums and not just rush thru it all. (or thru the glass window of trains/planes/buses. Then one can decide where you would like to return. Cranky children on a trip is not fun. Sue

Sue81

also get tickets now if you can for the Spanish Riding School in the Hapsburg Palace or for the training session. Gorgeous Lippizaner horses going thru there routines with lighted chandeliers hanging above in the ring, lovely shiny saddles, reins, etc....a must do, but get tickets ahead. Sue children would love it.

Bedar

The best aect to your trip is that there are so many adults available to herd around the kids, as someone else said above.

PalenQ

Standing Room tickets are available same day (only I think) at Spanish Riding School and some say they are a good deal:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...ol-Vienna.html

an option always if not pre-booked other tickets which do sell out.

GillsinEurope

Feeling a bit overwhelmed, but wanting to power through to make this trip a fun and memorable one.

Things I cannot change:
Dec. 17 - Arrive into BCN around 16:30
Dec. 18 - Arrive into VIE around 12:00
Dec. 21 - Arrive into Salzburg HBF around 10:45
Dec. 28 - Arrive into BCN (from Geneva - easyjet) around 18:30

1. I booked these incredible tickets about 8 months in advance.

2. Spanish Riding School did not have any events for the dates we'll be in Vienna. Are we still able to go and see the horses/tour the facility? Is that fun for kids?

3. I'm leaning towards skipping Neuschwanstein. Seems like maybe a better place to visit when the weather is warm. If that is the case I would probably stay another night in Salzburg. What should we do there? Looks like marionette theater does not have a show these dates.

4. What is the best way to get from Salzburg over to Lauterbrunnen? Night train? Travel half way and stop for a night? We have three kids with us.

5. Lauterbrunnen (and beyond) is our down time. Our family time. Christmas. I don't mind if we have "too many" days there. Ski school could be a fun activity. I'll look into it. An indoor pool is a good idea too. I think the one in Murren looks great! Can we rent sleds from a local place or should we head to a ski resort to do this?

6. How much do tickets for panorama Golden Pass cost without Swiss card? What is the difference between the Golden Pass ride and the regular ride from Interlaken? I'm seeing about $70 for an adult and kids ride free? Does that sound about right?

7. What to do in Montreux for the afternoon and next morning? Never been here. Should we stay the night here or some place else?

PalenQ

There is no convenient night train unless leaving Salzburg around 2 am is OK?

About 8 hours during day. Kempten only 5.5 hrs -maybe leave Neuschwanstein in?

Or fly of course to Zurich.

www.sbb.ch for fares Lauterbrunnen-Montreux via Zweisimmen (not mainline route via Bern and Lasuanne -that route is not as scenic as GP route and any train on that route would have the same scenery but official GP ones are probably faster and have more spiffy observation cars.

janisj

Cheap fare or not, I STILL think you need to cut back. You and your husband can rush around all you want . . . But I don't personally think that is fair for the others. Especially three young children.

PalenQ

7. What to do in Montreux for the afternoon and next morning? Never been here. Should we stay the night here or some place else?>

Again take the bus to nearby Castle Chillon- as dreamy in a way as any castle (except Neuschwanstein!):

https://www.google.com/search?q=cast...w=1745&bih=863

Or go right to Geneva and stay there - but Montreux is vastly preferred by many here - get a hotel on the lake with a view of Mt Blanc.

Sue81

Spanish Riding School, Yes I got tickets the same day as the training session. Go the very first day in Vienna, early AM... to the area right by the Hapsburg Palace, behind the Vienna Opera House, and get tickets, if not for the real show, then for the training session. I think the children would love it. There is a tiny museum connected to the stables, and remember these are the Lippizaner Stallions and they are incredible, and the children will always remember them. In the tiny Museum see the photos of the US soldiers/many boys from Montana etc, ridiing the stallions out of Vienna to save them during the bombing of Vienna. Then walk over to the big cathedral nearby, with the tile roofs, forgot the name of it, St. Stephens? Also note the brick walkway from front of church, and sign that tell of the people from the plague being buried under the street (don't tell the children that tho). Sue I think you can get the tickets there.

Sue81

Saltzburg, couple ideas there, I liked the dwarf garden with little statues of dwarfs, placed all around, it is a small little garden right in town. I think the children would like it. Also there is a puppet theater in Saltzburg, google it and see what play/story is on at the time you are there, fun for children. You learn from a trip like this that a little bit of extra $, makes it a whole lot more enjoyable. Get airline card and pile up miles for free tickets in future, sure helps. sue

Melnq8

<<Dec. 23-27 - Lauterbrunnen... What should we do here? We are not skiers, but would love to sled. Where should we eat for Christmas dinner>

Regarding sledding (aka sledging) - there's a great run between Murren and Gimmelwald - you can rent in Murren, sled down to Gimmelwald, and then take the cable car back up to Murren and repeat. We did this years ago and had a complete blast. Caveat: unless you have a pass of some sort (we had a Swiss Pass) you will have to pay repeatedly for the cable car rides.

Another option from Murren - take the funicular up to Allmendhubel and sledge down from there - you'll need to take your sleds up with you - you can rent in Lauterbrunnen or Murren.

My favorite place to eat in Lauterbrunnen is Hotel Oberland - something for everyone there. I suggest you send them a note and see if they're open on Christmas Day.

https://www.hoteloberland.ch/

You might also contact the Lauterbrunnen tourist office and ask them what might be open on Christmas and get more info on sled runs in the area:

Lauterbrunnen / Isenfluh Tourism
Stutzli 460
Mailbox 23
CH-3822 Lauterbrunnen

Tel. +41 33 856 85 68
Fax +41 33 856 85 69

[email protected]
www.lauterbrunnen.swiss

Have fun!

ToujoursVoyager

Don't be overwhelmed you just need to be very prepared and have all of your connections very clear.
Everyone is different. I have done long travel days successfully before and personally I love trains. If it were me traveling from Salzburg to Lauterbrunnen, I would take the first train out that morning. I would not break up the journey. Have a picnic in the train. You have at least 5 hours till Zurich. The children can write their travel journal, read a book, watch a movie, edit pictures...

surfmom

you asked about Geneva? If you have a car, two things we visited that were hits with the kids were:

- Olympic Museum in Lausanne. Not a hugely long museum but were interactive and something the kids can relate to.

- Castle of Chillon. I thought they would be bored, but they had fun running around and investigating. We talked about the Prisoner of Chillon by Lord Byron in advance, so it made it more 'real' for them.

Of course, it helps that we had amazingly clear weather and sunshine at Chillon, but we had to drag them away to get to Zermatt that night and wished we didn't have hotel reservations in Zermatt and could have stayed local.

PalenQ

Caveat: unless you have a pass of some sort (we had a Swiss Pass) you will have to pay repeatedly for the cable car rides.>

You may want a Swiss Travel Pass that would cover all your Swiss trains and cables up to Murren and Gimmelwald from Lauterbrunnen and 50% off on cables to Almandbuhel and those wonderful and very practical sled and sledge rides - no experience necessary right melanq8 (who always gives wonderful advice on Swiss places)? Also covers 50% the long long cableway Murren to Schilthorn which kids would or should love - ice grottos and stupendous views- James Bond On Her Majesty's Secret Service was in large part filmed there - kids will remember later.

the pass would also cover the Golden Pass train in full and trains around Lake Geneva. Details on passes at rail-oriented sites I gave farther up this thread.

And yes Castle Chillon could be pure joy to kids -not overwhelmed by tourists like Neuschwanstein and is the castle of many dreams.