Italy's immigrant farm workers treated like slaves.
Dec 19th, 2008, 03:47 AM
#1
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Italy's immigrant farm workers treated like slaves.
This situation offers a glimpse of the "other" Italy. Not seen by the tourist.
http://www.italymag.co.uk/italy/immi...rontieres-says
http://www.italymag.co.uk/italy/immi...rontieres-says
Dec 19th, 2008, 04:12 AM
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I think in the U.S., states have minimum standards for living conditions, farm pay etc. The difference is those laws are enforced in U.S.; while in Italy they are ignored and a little bribe to officials is substituted instead.
Dec 19th, 2008, 08:45 AM
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oh, please, there are lots of illegal immigrants in the US living in horrible conditions and working under sweatshop conditions. LA has tons of them, they work in garment factories. The idea that laws are enforced for living condition standards and wage rates for US illegal immigrant workers is dreaming.
Dec 19th, 2008, 09:27 AM
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Christina....We are talking about Farm worker standards for housing, sanitation, etc. In Florida, New York, North Carolina, Va, Vermont, Pa., (states that I am aware of), and it is actively enforced. This has nothing to do with legal vs, illegal workers!!!!
Dec 20th, 2008, 03:12 AM
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Sorry but I don't give a stuff how illegal immigrants anywhere are treated.
I find this story very badly phrased. It is not about immigrants (who of course should be treated the same as everyone else).
It is about illegal immigrants.
2 completely different groups of people. While on an individual level I feel terribly sorry for those driven to illegal working, that's the point, you are working illegally. Therefore the employment legislation of the country you are in does not apply to you. Why should it?
I find this story very badly phrased. It is not about immigrants (who of course should be treated the same as everyone else).
It is about illegal immigrants.
2 completely different groups of people. While on an individual level I feel terribly sorry for those driven to illegal working, that's the point, you are working illegally. Therefore the employment legislation of the country you are in does not apply to you. Why should it?
Dec 20th, 2008, 04:08 AM
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nona1 wrote: "While on an individual level I feel terribly sorry for those driven to illegal working, that's the point, you are working illegally. Therefore the employment legislation of the country you are in does not apply to you. Why should it?
For the same reasons that all legislation should apply to them. Following your line of reasoning, it should be okay for me to rape a woman who is in my country illegally.
If the lack of legal protection were limited to the area of labour law, it would be wrong. The market would be undercut by illegal unprotected workers and those who exploited them. So legal workers and employers with a social conscience would lose out.
For the same reasons that all legislation should apply to them. Following your line of reasoning, it should be okay for me to rape a woman who is in my country illegally.
If the lack of legal protection were limited to the area of labour law, it would be wrong. The market would be undercut by illegal unprotected workers and those who exploited them. So legal workers and employers with a social conscience would lose out.
Dec 20th, 2008, 04:22 AM
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>Therefore the employment legislation of the country you are in does not apply to you. Why should it?
The legislation DOES apply to you. However, I don't know about USA but in most European countries illegal employing (no matter whether a native, legal or illegal immigrant) is a crime, and you cannot legally employ illegal immigrants - so whatever legislation is there theoretically applies but cannot be enforced. Enforcing this laws would mean enforcng other laws as well, which again results in such a business being shut down and the business owner in court.
The legislation DOES apply to you. However, I don't know about USA but in most European countries illegal employing (no matter whether a native, legal or illegal immigrant) is a crime, and you cannot legally employ illegal immigrants - so whatever legislation is there theoretically applies but cannot be enforced. Enforcing this laws would mean enforcng other laws as well, which again results in such a business being shut down and the business owner in court.
Dec 20th, 2008, 06:42 AM
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Ack...Won't be in Longboat Key for a few months, now in Islamorada, on my boat. I get the farm "info" directly from a friend who has farm, and employees about 10 seasonal workers. He raises food animals,Sheep,poultry, rabbits, a few beef cows, and several specialty veggie crops; all are organic, as trhe farm is "Certified Organic, etc. etc."
Dec 20th, 2008, 06:54 AM
#17
The mixed-crop organic farmer with 10 workers is probably treating those workers rather differently than an agribusiness operation raising tobacco or cotton or cucumbers (for pickles). I've seen the conditions some workers live in in NC, and it's horrible. We've had workers here die because of the conditions (insufficient water) and the unregulated pesticide use is also a big problem. I really had to smile (sadly) when I read "The difference is those laws are enforced in U.S." - not so much.
Dec 21st, 2008, 02:07 AM
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I think my point has been taken. Almost all small organic and community supported farms have far better working conditions than industrial farms.
Organic foods are more expensive for a reason, and part of that reason is that we expect them to be raised under more humane conditions.
But the same issue applies to many of the goods for sale in this country, and it has nothing to do with immigrants, legal or not.
A local store was selling wooden Nutcracker figures for Christmas at 2 for $10. How at that price can the wood be cut, the product produced under safe conditions, and the result shipped from China all the way to the East Coast of the US and still give the makers a decent wage, the owners a decent profit, and the suppliers of the wood an incentive to make it a reusable resource?
Did I buy one? Of course. But I am conscious of what went into it, and you aren't going to find it as a throwaway on the curb the day after Christmas.
This may all seem pretty far from a travel forum, but it is a classic example of the contradictions of a global economy, and as longboatkey wrote in his original post, these are things that are "not seen by the tourist", to which I would only add "or by the average person." I won't post on this again, but I think, even as a committed capitalist, that these are issues we need to work out and that frequent travelers, who have seen more of the world than most of our fellow citizens, can be part of the solution. Thanks for all your patience!
Organic foods are more expensive for a reason, and part of that reason is that we expect them to be raised under more humane conditions.
But the same issue applies to many of the goods for sale in this country, and it has nothing to do with immigrants, legal or not.
A local store was selling wooden Nutcracker figures for Christmas at 2 for $10. How at that price can the wood be cut, the product produced under safe conditions, and the result shipped from China all the way to the East Coast of the US and still give the makers a decent wage, the owners a decent profit, and the suppliers of the wood an incentive to make it a reusable resource?
Did I buy one? Of course. But I am conscious of what went into it, and you aren't going to find it as a throwaway on the curb the day after Christmas.
This may all seem pretty far from a travel forum, but it is a classic example of the contradictions of a global economy, and as longboatkey wrote in his original post, these are things that are "not seen by the tourist", to which I would only add "or by the average person." I won't post on this again, but I think, even as a committed capitalist, that these are issues we need to work out and that frequent travelers, who have seen more of the world than most of our fellow citizens, can be part of the solution. Thanks for all your patience!
