phillyboy

I did everything right - at least I think so. Prior to our October visit to Italy, which included a three-day stay in the city of Mantova, we made very specific arrangements with the proprieters of the Palazzo we were staying in to make sure we weren't victimized by the high fines associated with driving in the limited zones. The owners, who were lovely hosts, told us we needed to pay a 3 Euro per day charge, and they would obtain the permit enabling us to drive within the city limits. We happily paid the 9 Euros, which is reflected on the receipt they gave us at checkout - I did not, however, get a copy of the permit itself.

Last week, I received a notice from my bank that there was potential fraudulent activity on my credit card. It turned out to be a $142 charge from Auto Europe. I suspected it would be connected with the Mantova visit, and contacted the agency that we regularly rent through, gemut.com. I also placed the charge into dispute with my my bank.

Earlier today, I received word from Auto Europe that the charges are indeed related to 3 separate violations of the ZTL in Mantova. Also, these charges represent only Auto Europe's "Administrative Fee", and that the violations themselves will be mailed to me at a later date. I e-mailed our host in Mantova, who responded immediately that he would check into it and get right back to me, and I am certain that he will.

I next called Auto Europe and advised them of what was going on, and they informed me that even if it turns out that I am correct, I will still be responsible for the Adminsitrative Fee - the agent told me I should get the owner of the establishment where I stayed to reimburse me, since he was probably remiss in registering my permit with the local police. I argued the point - as I believe that what will probably happen will be that the hotel owner and the police will point fingers at each other, and I will be stuck with the charge. The best she could do was consider some "arrangement" if I am able to produce a copy of the actual permit, and send it to them.

So now, even if I am able to avoid the actual violations, which is not a sure thing, I'm still going to have to wrangle with somebody over this $143 fee. Can anyone advise me on what else I should do to extricate myself from the situation?

I hate credit card hassles!

Thanks

macanimals

I'm no expert at contesting ZTL fees but:
I have never heard of a fee to register within a ZTL zone to avoid a ticket. The hotel notifies the proper authorities and registers your license number and time of stay--no charge.
The 3 euro fee you paid sounds awfully similar to Italy"s new tax on visitors--3 euro per day per person per night.

I feel for you and welcome to the aggravating uncertainties of driving in urban areas of Italy.
Good luck.

tinabina

We have paid twice for some similiar fines to Auto Europe from a car rental in Italy. At this point we have given up! They occcasionally send us new notices for things we have already paid for! I hope you have better luck!
Tina

isabel

I was just researching hotels in Mantova for a visit this coming July and at least one (I think two) had 3€ fees like you describe. Maybe it's the same hotel or maybe it's some new thing. Sorry about your problems. I decided to stay at a 'less nice' hotel by the train station to avoid having to drive in the center and hassle with permits and all. Sounds like I made the right decision.

Besides that, how did you like Mantova?

Michael

If you rented your car through gemut I doubt that AutoEurope is involved, as it is only a broker. As far as I know, the Italian authorities contact the rental agency itself (the license plate would not identify the broker), not the broker. Might it be Europcar? Or did the rental agency forward the charges to AutoEurope?

jan47ete

We had a similar situation in Florence and Rome with a different car rental company but the same administrative fees. What you did not mention and don't shoot the messenger here--but you still have gotten the tickets from Mantova municipality yet! The fraudulent charges against your credit card is the municipality trying to charge your card. Unlike the very teeny tiny print on your rental card agreement which gives the rental company the right to charge your card, the municipality did not have that approval, hence the fraudulent charge notice. I know this doesn't help with the $143 admin fee question but it seems that somehow the hotel caused this problem and you need recourse from them.

kybourbon

Your car rental contract will state somewhere on it the fee for providing your info to the police if requested.

It seems there is some type of temporary pass for Mantova.
http://www.cittadimantova.it/it/doc-...-pass_ztl.aspx
http://80.88.164.125/pass/TEMPf0.jsp

Perhaps it wasn't registered soon enough.

kybourbon

Was it Thursday between 6:00am and 14:00pm in the market zone?
http://www.nickbooth.id.au/Tips/ZTL.htm

Ackislander

Dispute the AutoEurope passthrough fees with your credit card company until the situation in Manova is resolved. You may then still have to pay, but that will depend on what was in your contract and what they actually list on your credit card statement. Let them make their case to the credit card company.

I just paid the very efficiant city of Vicenza for a ZTL ticket and still haven't gotten the statement with the auto rental charge, though I know it is coming since the credit card company called me because of strange activity on my card.

zeppole

I think AutoEurope is not treating you unfairly. Surely you have to produce proof and documentation. It costs them something to process your fines. The fault apparently is with your B&B or the police. Ask them to resolve it, and pay if you followed all the rules and they didn't. Easier said than done, I realize, but that is the tack I would take.

Constantgardener

Write every letter, email...make the phone calls...and then forget about it. The Italian bureaucracy is such that these things can drag on for well over a year. I found myself last year ruminating on an unjust (in my eyes) parking fine in Taormina, Sicily. It really got to me until I decided I just didn't have headspace for it anymore.

Whatever you decide to do, don't give it the headspace - it doesn't deserve it.

zeppole

I don't know why this should be laid at the feet of the "Italian bureaucracy."

If you have paid for a permit to drive, get a copy of the permit. I would have it in my car while I was driving, and I certainly would keep a copy for my records at home. It's one's own bureaucracy that matters here, or the bureaucracy of the B&B owners. Or perhaps the bureaucracy of AutoEurope. The poor Italian police force in Mantova is only there to enforce the law, and apparently their records say it was broken.

AutoEurope is right to ask to see proof that a permit was issued, and if no proof can be located, than the only remaining issue is who AutoEurope should go to get paid.

phillyboy

Thanks for your responses. A couple of minor additional points ... in checking my receipt from the B&B, the additional charge was 5 Euro per day, not 3 as I'd mentioned above. It was definitely not a 3 euro per day per person per night visitors' tax, as someone suggested (there were 4 of us there for 3 nights). Maybe this is just a fee that the proprieters charge on their own, for the extra effort involved in dealing with the city - seems reasonable. I do not even know if there is an actual "permit" issued, or if it's just a notification to the local police, but I don't suspect I was being scammed for an extra 5 Euro per day. Anyway, I could have been more diligent in getting those answers, and obtaining a copy of the the piece of paper, if there is one. I do believe that the proprieters of the B&B were aboveboard, and I fully expect that they will assist me in resolving it.

In reading through the documents more carefully, it appears that the actual violations, if they ever materialize, would actually be mailed to me, rather than being charged to my credit card, does anyone know if that is the procedure?

I am a bit confused about the relationship between the 3 entities involved. I rented through and paid gemut, which I assume is the broker. The rental car company where I picked-up and returned the vehicle was Europcar, and the $142 charge came from AutoEurope - not sure how this all works?

We did like Mantova very much, it's a beautiful small city with quite a bit to see, and great food.

phillyboy

To respond to kybourbon's question, we arrived on a Saturday and left on a Tuesday.

And jan47ete, the admin fee is not being levied by the municipality, it's being charged by AutoEurope for supplying my contact information to the police. There have not as yet been any charges directly from the city.

kybourbon

>>>In reading through the documents more carefully, it appears that the actual violations, if they ever materialize, would actually be mailed to me, rather than being charged to my credit card, does anyone know if that is the procedure? <<<

The procedure is the police contact the rental company to get your info. Your rental contract states how much they can charge for supplying the info and since they have your charge card, they charge you this fee. The police contract with a company that sends the actual tickets. It's my understanding they have a year to get the ticket to you (a year from when they obtain your contact info I think).

You might be able to protest this if your B&B can provide proof they notified the police you were staying there or there was some kind of permit purchased. I know in Florence, that only gets you entry to drop off your luggage and pick it up on departure. It does not give you daily passing through.

phillyboy

kybourbon - thanks for the information. I guess someone could just cancel their credit card to avoid the possibility of surprise charges. Some might consider that type of action unscrupulous, others might view it as simply protecting oneself from what they would consider unjustified charges. Hmmm ...

StCirq

If you rented from, and paid, Gemut, and Europcar was the actual source of the car, what the heck does AutoEurope have to do with anything? I would call AutoEurope and have them trace the paperwork. Seems likely to me that they are charging you for someone else's mistake.

Michael

I'm still surprised that the <b>broker</b> rather than the actual rental company is involved.

kybourbon

>>>kybourbon - thanks for the information. I guess someone could just cancel their credit card to avoid the possibility of surprise charges. Some might consider that type of action unscrupulous, others might view it as simply protecting oneself from what they would consider unjustified charges. Hmmm .<<<

There are no unjustified charges. You signed a contract with the rental and those fees are listed (read it). I'm not sure cancelling your credit card will negate any charges already made. Your credit card will not be charged for the ticket. You will get that in the mail with instructions how to pay.

>>>>If you rented from, and paid, Gemut, and Europcar was the actual source of the car, what the heck does AutoEurope have to do with anything?<<<<

After a little internet research, it appears Gemut is just a reseller based in Oregon. It appears after you book with them, they book you through AutoEurope.

zeppole

I would ask AutoEurope to send me documentation that that they were contacted by the Mantova police department.

If there is human error involved here, it is just as possible that the error was done by Gemut, Europcar or AutoEurope.

Right now, all you have is AutoEurope's word that you committed some violation. How did they come to that conclusion? It should be on their records somewhere. It might contain other information that would help you solve the puzzle.