SBrown8243

My wife and I (along with college-age daughters) would like to spend about 3 weeks in June 2007 on our first trip to Europe. We have decided on going to Italy and seeing as much of it as possible, with a few days in Paris either at the beginning or end of the trip. Since everyone has differing levels of interest in history, art, touring the countryside, the Riviera, etc. we have been thinking that we would try to rent a place in a central location in Italy where we could take the train or arrange other local/regional transportation on various day trips and weekend trips to other destinations in the region. The idea is to have a "home base" from which we could do a little of everything. What city, town, or countryside would you suggest as our home base? We would like a place with some small-town local charm, but with good access to transportation. How would one, without paying the services of a travel agent, locate a house or apartment to rent? What sorts of destinations would you suggest for first-timers wanting to soak in the local flavor while seeing the customary tourist destinations as well? Any help anyone could give me in getting started with researching and planning such a trip would be most appreciated.

nessundorma

You should take a look at the Slow Travel website for accommodations and locations.

There really is no "central location" in Italy, even though the country looks small on a map. Planning to tour Italy always involves painful choices. The alternative is to spend hours on trains (that may not be punctual) or racing around in a car, getting lost.

With 2 weeks (not counting jet lag and your visit to France) you really need to focus on two locations:

Do you want to visit Roma and its surroundings?

Or Venezia and Verona?

Or Bologna, Parma, Mantova and Vernon?

Or Firenze and Toscana?

Or Pompeii and the Amalfi coast?

Or Cinque Terre and Milano? Perhaps the lakes?

Expect it to be very warm in June. If you want to get away from tourists, consider Piemonte and Le Marche, or the less fashinable parts of the Med near Salerno.

Italy is full of treasures and beauty and good food. Any two locations are likely to be highly rewarding. But don't spread yourself too thin by trying to hit all the "highlights" from a "central location."

nessundorma

Ooops! Make that "Verona" not "vernon"!

SBrown8243

OK. Thanks. Obviously, I need to read up a little about the different locations and what they have to offer. Your suggestion about not spreading ourselves too thin is a good one. My wife and I want to spend as many nights as possible relaxing in the countryside or in a small town setting. The daughters want to spend as many days as possible sightseeing and shopping, etc. Hopefully we can find a location that meets all of those desires. Thanks.

nessundorma

I'll suggest somewhere near Verona for one of your locations -- which gives you train access to both Milano and Venezia, plus Lago di Garda if it gets really hot. Then there is Verona, Mantova, Padua, etc etc. for cultural excurions. You could easily spend the whole two weeks here, in fact.

Another very good choice would Umbria, with access to fabulous Perugia, which has its famed university for English/Italian, which means there are lots of possibilities for your daughters connecting with Italians -- and there are all the cheap shops and eats college students favor, plus upscale eats. It's a fascinating place, rich with art and one of the very finest and most beautiful art museums in Italy.

In Umbria, you can easily visit Assisi, Spoleto, Gubbio and myriad other small towns that are staggeringly rich in art and history. Stay at an agriturismo with a pool, and be sure to take a drive to the Piano Grande.

Viajero2

Agree w/previous post, specially the ness who gave you excellent ideas. Agree w/the agrotourism located within easy access to train lines, so that day trips can be easily arranged. On that note, check http://www.holiday-rentals.com, a reputable rental company with great choices. Check Property No. 10469 and/or properties near Lake Bracciano or Castelgandolfo.

bobthenavigator

It really takes more than 6 weeks to see Italy, but you can do some damage in 3. I would pick 3 locations in that time and rent apts. or small houses to use as a base. Spend time at slowtrav.com to see rentals. Here are some favorite itineraries to give you a feel for the options.
BOB the NAVIGATORS’ FIVE FAVORITE ITINERARIES
__________________________________________________ ______________

MAGICAL FAIRYLANDS:
* Arrive and depart Munich--14 nites--May thru Sep.--car travel
* ITINERARY: Salzburg, Dolomites, Venice, Lake Garda, Bavaria
============================================
BELLA ITALIA:
* Arr Milan, dep Venice--15 nites--car & train travel--April thru Oct.
* ITINERARY: Lakes, Ligurian coast, Tuscany, Florence, Venice
============================================
CLASSIC ITALIA:
* Arrive & depart Rome--12 to 14 nites--car & train travel, all year
* ITINERARY: Florence, Tuscan & Umbrian hilltowns, Rome
============================================
LA DOLCE VITA:
* Arr & dep Rome--12 nites--car & train travel--March thru Oct.
* ITINERARY: Amalfi coast, Tuscan hilltowns, Rome
============================================
OF ALPS & LAKES:
* Arrive and depart Zurich--12 nites--train travel--June thru Sep.
* ITINERARY: Berner Oberland, Lugano, Lake Como, Luzern

THE VILLAGE SAMPLER: My personal favorites—north to south.
• Arr Milan & dep Rome---car travel---plan 3 nites per location
• Lake Orta, Castelrotto, Portovenere, Montalcino, Ravello

nessundorma

Bob,

Interesting stuff! I don't know if you noticed, but the OP is also spending a few days in Paris. I think once you deduct for jet leg and tranfer times, plus however many days in Paris, they really only have 14 days for Italy. To me, that argues for two locations, and given the need to satisfy both downtime for the parents and culture for the college girls, I think two locations, one week apiece, in art-rich areas with pretty countryside and at least one big city.

OP expressed a preference for staying in a small town, which I think is a good idea, although with a car, an agriturismo (with a pool) may also be a good choice.

To SBrown,

Check into the costs of renting a car, for multiple drivers, with zero-deductible insurance. (I'm assuming your college-aged girls can drive.) Staying outside a town and foregoing the costs of train tickets can make renting cost-effective, and you see so much more of Italia.

SusanP

While I understand your desire to stay more in the country, to see Rome, you really need to stay IN Rome. The same goes for Venice. So with 3 weeks, assuming 20 nights in Europe, here's a possible itinerary:

Fly to Paris, 4 nights Paris
Fly to Venice, 3 nights there
Rent a car and spend 9 nights in Tuscany, 2 different locations would really be better (possibly one actually in Tuscany, the other in Umbria), even though it means a hotel change. Daytrips to Florence and Tuscan/Umbrian towns.
4 nights Rome, fly home from Rome

Of course, you could spend much more time in Rome and still not have enough. The reason I say 2 locations in Tuscany and/or Umbria is that if you stay in 1 place the whole time, you will spend a lot more time on the road each day.

Of course, if you want to include the Lakes or Cinque Terre, days could be taken from Tuscany to allow that, but again, those places are too far to do a daytrip all from one place.

Dayle

Hi S,

I would agree with SusanP's possible itinerary. It does give you a little of everything you are looking for.

I am another person who doesn't like to go too far for day trips. I prefer not driving or training more than around 1 hour, 1 way for a trip away from my lodging. I've done 2 trips, one in Italy and one in France where we drove 2 -3 hours one way on a "day trip". Really didn't enjoy it. Too much time in the car as opposed to actually "being" somewhere.

Buon viaggio!

tuscanlifeedit

Dear S

I am one who thinks that a first trip to Italy isnt really the trip on which one wants to spend all one's evenings relaxing in a village. If that is your goal, it almost becomes impossible to see the major spots. Italy is best first experienced, IMO, and obviously in the opinion of some others, by staying in a mix of cities and small towns.

Unless you want to forgo Rome, which needs a visit of its own, and Venice, also in need of its own visit, your imagined plan probably won't work.

I agree that SusanP's plan comes closest to giving you what you would like, and still showing you Italy.

Another plan:

Start in Paris, 3 nights

Fly to Genoa, and stay on Italian Riviera, 3 nights (I recommend Santa Margherita Ligure, which is my favorite Riviera location, as frequent boats can take you to other small towns)

Train to Florence or nearby small town from which day trips are easy to accomplish; 5 nights

On to Umbria, stay in any small town or village (you might really like Spello for small town feel with easy access to other towns) 5 nights

Train to Rome, 4 or 5 nights

Fly home from Rome

Amart

Our 2-18 year olds really enjoyed (to my surprise) the tours we took with www.parmagolosa.it in the Parma region. The English speaking guide was great and we got a real "taste" of Italian ham, cheese, and vinegar like no other. You need to be in Parma about 7:30-8 in the morning to see the cheese making. The small concern is allowed to make 10 wheels a day...

Big_Red

SBrown,

The usual response to a non-specific question such as this is "Go to a good library near your house and check out some travel books and look at the pictures." Also, there books centered around daytripping and Eurail books (lots of daytrip ideas there as well). You may not believe it but any well thought out trip will probably produce great memories (and an immediate plan to return to Italy).

Italy is one of the more populous countries, with great history and unbeleievably beautiful scenery.

One question - How many daughters do you have? (You can rent an economical car for four adults. For five adults you begin to look at larger/luxury cars.)

If want some specific ideas then .. .. Fly into Venice. Spend two full days there. Move on to the lakes region (Spectacular scenery and a slow pace. Take the boats to a few lake towns and have leisurely dinners. We like Lake Como,so did Winston Churchill and now hollywood's stars). Move on to Tuscany, two or more full days. Move on to Rome, stay in a centrally located hotel (we liked the Piaza Navona/Pantheon area). There are several daytrip posibilities from Rome (Orvieto comes to mind although we have not been). Note 'full day' is not a day that you travel on.

Keep your pace to about half a week per stop and mix small towns into your itinerary (which was your plan anyway).

Enjoy your trip.

nytraveler

Italy is far too big for one central point to make sense. I do like the idea of a couple of central points with day trips - but if the trip is more then 1.5 hours in each direction you'll simply be spending too much time on the road. And for cities like Venice or Rome there is simply no substitute to staying riht in the center and getting a feel for place.

Otherwise the trip will be mostly cars and trains.

Suggest you do a week at a central place in Tuscany with some day trips (you'll need a car for this), at least 2/3 days in Venice and 4/5 in Rome. Then add whatever hits your fancy.

SBrown8243

Thanks everyone. I'll research all of this and no doubt be back in touch!

laclaire

Today my mom and I were talking about our Italian trip from last summer (Milan, Riviera, Florence, San Gimigniano, Volterra, Siena, Venice, Verona) and were saying that if we went back, we would rent a place near Siena and maybe do a few day trips around the area. We liked Italy a lot, but Siena was just the best by far and we were so happy there that it is where we want to return.

If you get a place a little East of Florence, you will have access to a lot of places. . . check the map and see what you come up with.

SBrown8243

Thanks to everyone. I have reviewed each of your suggestions with the family and it seems the general preliminary plan is set forth below. I'd really like some more input (since we are first-timers to Europe) as to the feasibility and enjoyment factor...remember my wife and I are taking a 21 year old daughter and 18 year old daughter. We want to move at a laid-back, but steady pace. We don't mind venturing out a little, but I don't want to spend a lot of time driving around Italy lost in a rent car. I'd rather take a train, or have a guide, etc. OK...the general plan:

We'd like to fly into Paris and spend 2-3 nights max there. Then fly to Italy. We think we would like to see: Venice(2-3 nts.), Lake Como, etc. (1-2 nts.), Florence (2-3 nts.), other areas of Tuscany, the Umbria area (preferably 2-3 nights at a agriturismo in the countryside of each region) and then fly home out of Rome (after 3-4 nights). I sort of wanted to see Pompeii, and the girls sort of wanted to do one of the islands (since I told them trying to go over to Greece would probably have to wait until another trip...correct me if you think I'm wrong). Once I get some feedback and decide on our schedule and route, then I'm sure I'll need more help from you guys on accomodations,dining, sights, etc. at individual destinations, but does this sound about right for a 21-day trip? Should I re-arrange my plan in any respect to see more of what we desire? Any specific recommendations geared to the college age daughters? Some people have recommended Perugia and a festival at Spoleto, etc. that will be going on during June 2007 when we'll be there...is there anything to that? Thanks to all for your continued help.
Steve

Big_Red

This looks pretty good. However, for a 'laid back' vacation it is sorta close to too fast.

If you can find ideal accomodations, then Tuscany and Umbria might be combined.

Paris, Venice, Florence and Rome might be too many big city stops. Each big city might merit at least a week. It is hard to be comfortable and spontaneous if you feel that you have only 48 hours to know Rome or wherever.

If you want the relaxing vacation, then think about your days at Lake Como. My personal recommendation is to not cut Lake Como too short.

One thing that I have found is that the largest memories from European travel are the things never expected. From three trips to Europe, my 10 year old son's strongest memories are: the D-day beaches and he and I exploring the ridge above Bellagio and finding the way down.

Lexma90

I agree that, especially for a laid-back trip, your pace is a bit fast. Keep in mind the Fodorites' rule of thumb that any time you change locations, it equals about 1/2 day of time. Also, two nights in a city could mean as little as one full day. So, for example, 2-3 nights in Paris could be your arrival day (let's assume you'll be at least somewhat jet-lagged), night, one full day, night, and then you'll be flying out the following day. Not so much time for such a wonderful city.

On both Umbria and Tuscany, I too would suggest only one of those locations. And do your daughters really want to stay at an agriturismo? Those are generally out in the countryside, and will require (usually) a car to get anywhere. You might consider staying at a hotel in a small city or town; small enough to get in and out of easily, but big enough to have a choice of restaurants and things to do in the evening (even if the "things to do" is walking around and eating gelato). Also, that way, if the group wants to split up for a while, it'll be easier (i.e., daughters want to hang out in the piazza, parents want to head in for the night).

I know I'm in the minority, but Lake Como just didn't click with me. Look at the info about the lakes region, and make sure it's a spot where your whole family would really enjoy relaxing.

If you're considering 3-4 nights in Rome, and that time period would include Pompeii and one of the islands (I assume you mean Capri or something like that), then you don't really have much time in Rome at all. See if you can add time to Rome, as well.

Also, if you're planning to spend time in Tuscany, you'll really need a car for that portion of the trip. But you do NOT want a car while in Venice, Florence or Rome; you'd just be paying for parking. So factor that into your plans. For example, you could fly Paris-Venice, then take a train to Florence. Pick up the rental car while leaving Florence, visit Tuscany or Umbria or the Lakes, then drive or train to Rome, so that you don't have a car in Rome, either.

If you think you'll have the opportunity to visit Italy again, consider skipping one of the big three cities, if you also want to make sure you have time in the countryside as well. You could focus on Venice, Florence and northern Italy, or Florence, Tuscany and Rome. Then it would be easier to fit everything in. (And didn't 3 weeks seem like a long time before you started trying to fit everything in?)

Have a wonderful time planning.

abby97

What about 5 nights Paris, 3 nights Venice, 6 nights agriturismo/Tuscan hill town (or three nights each in Tuscany and Umbria), and 5 or 6 nights Rome w/ a long day trip to Pompeii?